Hitler question

[wacki]

According to this very good PDF:
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.1/GunFacts4-1-Press.pdf

Hitler once said:

ADOLPH HITLER
“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”359


Anyone know what situations he's talking about?

 

[Outlaws]

Too many to list here. Gun control and weapons control is nothing new.

Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State.

 

[thegriz]

I can see why

I can see why Hitler didn't want guns in the hands of his subjects. I'm currently reading a book titled Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. It about how Nazi police rounded up thousands of Jews for execution (mass murder) with virtually no resistance. These people had no way to defend themselves.

Can you imagine watching your children get shot by the police because of their race while you have no recourse? How about your whole town being murdered even when the murderers are hugely outnumbered?

Read this book - it will blow your mind and it's well researched.

 

[Rachen]

Murderous fascist regimes such as the Third Reich

always use arms control first in order to render their victims helpless.

Same situation as Armenia during World War I when almost 1 million were killed by Ottoman troops. Here is a misconception here: The Chinese Communists at first allowed every citizen to own guns, from 1949 to 1965 it was relatively easy for people, especially rural people to own rifles, shotguns, and pistols. However, in 1966, the Cultural Revolution began, and gun control suddenly became widespread and harsh.
Since the market revolution of 1980, Chinese gun control has laxed a bit. It is still hard to own a weapon now, but we can see that gun rights are slowly coming back. Today in China, owning a gun is about as difficult as owning one in California, or New York City. In the cities, you would be discouraged from doing it, because a lot of people live and it is very populated. In the rural areas, it is easier.

 

[mike101]

When you want to take over a country, the first thing you do is disarm the population. You would think the Nazi angle would work on the antis, but it doesn't seem to.

 

[Beatnik]

The most astounding thing about this, to me, is the fact that nobody ever equates Swiss autonomy with firearms ownership.

If you watch those old B&W filmstrips of the Nazis taking control of Europe, there's always that one spot RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE that never gets eaten by the animated swastikas.

As kids, we are all told that "Switzerland is neutral" and that's that. How much sense does that make? "I don't want to play, so go around me"? How come nobody else got that option?

How about this for a reason: Hitler realized that every man, woman, and child in the country would be packing heat, and that he couldn't do it.

It's also interesting to watch Red Dawn and realize how much crap that movie is too... right... commies parachute into Colorado in the middle of the cold war, and nobody shoots at them...

 

[jnojr]

If you watch those old B&W filmstrips of the Nazis taking control of Europe, there's always that one spot RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE that never gets eaten by the animated swastikas.

But that wasn't because of an armed population. It's because Switzerland would have been more trouble than it was worth to conquer, and because Swiss banking was much more valuable than a conquered Switzerland.

 

[hso]

If you watch those old B&W filmstrips of the Nazis taking control of Europe, there's always that one spot RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE that never gets eaten by the animated swastikas.

As kids, we are all told that "Switzerland is neutral" and that's that. How much sense does that make? "I don't want to play, so go around me"? How come nobody else got that option?

How about this for a reason: Hitler realized that every man, woman, and child in the country would be packing heat, and that he couldn't do it.

There are several reasons.

The Swiss skill at alpine marksmanship has been touted. A Swiss general is supposed to have been talking to a German counterpart. The discussion begame tense with some thinly vieled threats from the German. When the German pointed out that he could march any army twice the size of the entire Swiss army into Switzerland in just a day and asked the Swiss general what he could possibly do about it the Swiss general is supposed to have said he'd have to have his men fire twice if the Germans didn't surrender.

Possibly the fact that the Swiss have had every square centimeter of their country and well into the surrounding nations gridded out for artilery and mortar fire that would come from thousands upon thousands of hidden batteries might have played a role. The Nazis were warned to stay out.

In addition, the Nazi goverment spared its tiny neighbor because Switzerland proved much more useful as an independent state than as a satellite. The Swiss made many useful weapon components (aluminium for the Luftwaffe, spark plugs for jeeps taken from the Russians, timing devices for bombs, among other things), and because of their "neutrality" their factories were not bombed every night. The Swiss National bank bought gold from the Reichsbank, the Reichsbank was given Swiss francs in exchange, and used them to buy cobalt, nickel and tungsten from the other “neutral” countries. The Turks, Portuguese, Spanish and Swedish, who were all under heavy pressure from the Allies not to accept direct gold payment from the Reichsbank, then exchanged the Swiss francs for gold. The problem was that the German gold came from the Belgian National bank reserves (not from concentration camps as some sensationalists would have it) and the neutrals knew it. Finally, the Swiss allowed trains to carry food and non-weapon supplies from Germany to Italy, with dozens of trains every day on their way to Africa. Totally surrounded by the Axis, most of its coal supply came from Germany every week, and all of its exports had to go through Axis controlled territory. For a landlocked country with no natural resources, this meant the Swiss had to work out some form of accomodation with their neighbors.

 

[carlrodd]

Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State.
-Heinrich Himmler

You like to fire assault weapons? I have a place for you. It's not in the homes and streets of America. It's called the Army, and you can join any time! -Wesley Clark

 

[Tommygunn]

Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State.
-Heinrich Himmler

You like to fire assault weapons? I have a place for you. It's not in the homes and streets of America. It's called the Army, and you can join any time! -Wesley Clark

Yeah, I've seen this comparison before. Amazing how history echoes back and forth throughout time, in the words of those who would control ... isn't it?

 

[Erebus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlrodd
Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State.
-Heinrich Himmler

You like to fire assault weapons? I have a place for you. It's not in the homes and streets of America. It's called the Army, and you can join any time! -Wesley Clark

Yeah, I've seen this comparison before. Amazing how history echoes back and forth throughout time, in the words of those who would control ... isn't it?

What is it they say about those that don't learn from history?

 

[Rich K]

Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. And the Democrats never learn.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

. . . never learn.

More to the point, the VOTERS never learn.

Of course, it's hard to learn from history if you're never actually taught any.

There's all that . . . detail . . . and stuff.

Much more efficient to just learn some dates and names, and about all the different cultures there are, and how cultures are important -- except ours, of course -- and we all have obligations to make sure the [STRIKE]rulers are[/STRIKE] government is able to [STRIKE]control[/STRIKE] provide for us.

I mean, who uses history in everyday life, anyway?

 

[tim503]

That sure is the truth. I can't count the times I've heard people say stuff like "screw history, what's it ever gonna have to do with anything?". I've always tried to point out that if you pay close attention to it, it teaches a lot about human nature and through studying it, you can easily identify trends and recurring cycles that have always and will always help the student to predict future events. Of course, most people just don't want to think about all that. They'd prefer to just have another beer and go watch monday night football or the WWE, etc. - Talking to those sort of folks is like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall. :banghead:

 

[yhtomit]

Can someone point me to sources of those quotes?

Originally Posted by carlrodd
Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State.
-Heinrich Himmler

You like to fire assault weapons? I have a place for you. It's not in the homes and streets of America. It's called the Army, and you can join any time! -Wesley Clark

Both plenty plausible, but I wonder if someone can point me to an authoritative source for each of those quotes.

However, you've got to hand it to politicians like this; the one time their sincerity is apparent is when they're speaking arrogantly about the rights of others.

timothy

 

[Prince Yamato]

Wesley Clark's quote was made on national television during the Democratic Primary I believe.

 

[BigG]

In addition, the Nazi goverment spared its tiny neighbor because Switzerland proved much more useful as an independent state than as a satellite.

You said "In addition" but it should have been "Most importantly..."

There was need for a piece of neutral ground for the aggressors to meet. Also the banking, industry, etc, but they were subordinate to the neutral ground advantage.

People that tout the Swiss Army as some kind of invincible entity make me wonder.

 

[DrDeFab]

That Hitler quote is real, see below. No luck finding a citation for the Himmler saying, but it appears in many credible lists and is not on the "bogus quotes" lists.

Der größte Unsinn, den man in den besetzen Ostgebieten machen könnte, sei der, den unterworfenen Völkern Waffen zu geben. Die Geschicte lehre, daß alle Herrenvölker untergegangen seien, nachdem sie den von ihnen unterworfenen Volkern Waffen bewilligt hatten.

[The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.]

- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942. [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)

http://www.jpfo.org/faq.htm#faq02 or on GunCite

 

[DrDeFab]

Hmm - not Himmler, or the exact phrasing, but the meaning is there:

The units of the national revolution, SA, SS, and Stahlhelm, offer every German man with a good reputation the opportunity to join their ranks for the fight. Therefore, whoever does not belong to one of these named units and nevertheless keeps his weapon without authorization or even hides it, must be viewed as an enemy of the national government and will be held responsible without hesitation and with the utmost severity.

- Zur Verordnung des kommisarischen bayer. Innenministers vom 24.3.33. über Wehrverbände. Found in BHStA, LRA Bad Tölz 133992, No2501c51.

 

[Ramon67]

That was just another tactic of his to gain....

total control over people. Hitler was a classic megolomaniac. His understanding of history was filtered through his German Romanticism, which idolized the State, mono-culturalism, and 'purifying' violence on every level of human interaction. Hitler was the product and ultimate champion of genocidal totalitarianism. He personified ancient German tribalism perfectly.

 

[Sharps-shooter]

Okay, have you guys ever been to Switzerland? Raise your hands if you've been to switzerland. There is NO WAY the Nazis could have taken it. Not even if the swiss had blackpowder rifles and the Nazis had airplanes and machinerkarabiners. The home court advantage is just too immense on that particular piece of ground. It would be like Russia in Afghanistan all over again. except that russia in afghanistan hadn't happened yet.

and what's this about Switzerland being more useful as a free state? If that was how Nazis thought, they wouldn't have bee facists; they would have been laissez-faire capitalists, and there would be no WWII in Europe. I'm sure they would have loved to have control of swiss banking and manufacturing. But they were able to do a cost-benefit analysis on that one, and see that it didn't work out in their favor.

 

[jnojr]

Having been to Switzerland or not has nothing to do with anything.

The Wehrmacht could have rolled over Switzerland, albeit at a slower pace than their other conquests. They couldn't maintain total control of the countryside, but they could run all of the cities and the majority of the people. The mountains kept them relatively safe for centuries, but couldn't have saved the Swiss from continuous bombing raids, for example.

This is just like saying the Japanese didn't invade the mainland US because they were afraid of an armed population. Utter hogwash. It's because they didn't have anything close to the manpower or logitical train they'd have needed to support such an invasion.

An armed population is not a panacea for aggression, totalitarianism, or tyranny. It's a tool that can be used (or misused).

 

[stoky]

Of course, it's hard to learn from history if you're never actually taught any.

Government schools teach a leftist revisionist history that begins with MLK. The Constitution is rendered null and void by a catchy line from the Declaration of Independence.
In ancient history there was no Pol Pot, no Stalin, American founding fathers were evil and the only atrocity ever committed was Hitler Nazi racism, which was fixed by Democrats.

 

[slzy]

the allies wound up bombing a ball bearing factory in switzerland,which we paid for after the war.

 

[GEM]

The Swiss also threatened to blow up the tunnels that the Germans used for communication to Italy. From what I read, that was a truly significant threat.

The Swiss, unfortunately, had some significant collaborators that they had to control. They would have been happy to join with the Nazis if the time came.

It was a combo of getting along with the Nazis and the cost of invasion that spared them.

They had a trivial air force at the time. Much of the population was to be abandoned to a redoubt strategy.

They were conquerable but it wasn't worth it. There was a similar analysis of invading Sweden. Notice that most of the folks who talk about the Swiss experience don't mention the Swedes as unconquerable as the Swedes aren't on the gun list superstar list. They were spared for the same reasons. It would have been costly and they collaborated enough so that it wasn't worth the effort.