Has anyone ever heard of the 6 Walthers 9mm, hammerless pistols that were taken from a safe after the fall of Hitler?? The guns were given to Hitler around 1938. He was to give 5 to his officers and keep one for himself. This gun is similar to the P-38 but not a P-38. Serial # 40-45. The guns were taken by an army Colonel. He gave 5 to his officers and kept the gun with the #40 serial #. He has died but his wife would like to sell this unfired gun.
Hitlers Gun???
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Walt Sherrill
Member
Pardon me if I seem cynical, but...
The number of "authentic" guns given to Hitler, used by Hitler, bestowed by Hitler upon his subordinates -- or captured by US troops from special caches -- is exceeded only by the number of soldiers in the German Army during the period. The Third Reich apparently kept a couple of factories running just to make these special weapons.
(If I remember my military history correctly, the Red Army captured Berlin and got all the goodies. The US Army was made to stay back. The US Army did get to his mountain hideout before anyone else, though.)
The number of "authentic" guns given to Hitler, used by Hitler, bestowed by Hitler upon his subordinates -- or captured by US troops from special caches -- is exceeded only by the number of soldiers in the German Army during the period. The Third Reich apparently kept a couple of factories running just to make these special weapons.
(If I remember my military history correctly, the Red Army captured Berlin and got all the goodies. The US Army was made to stay back. The US Army did get to his mountain hideout before anyone else, though.)
Hkmp5sd
Member
I've never heard of any pistol that has been authenticated as belonging to Hitler at any time in his life. There were two pistols in the bunker with Hitler when he committed suicide and none of the enlisted aides that actually disposed of the body can say what happened to them. They were MIA by the time the Russians entered the bunker.
If there is absolute proof that this gun belonged to Hitler, it would be worth millions. Without the proof, it would be the same value of other similar condition Nazi era Walthers. Given the unique serial number, you should be able to get some information from Walther about its history.
If there is absolute proof that this gun belonged to Hitler, it would be worth millions. Without the proof, it would be the same value of other similar condition Nazi era Walthers. Given the unique serial number, you should be able to get some information from Walther about its history.
I know someone who claims to have bought Adolf Eichmans Luger in an Argentine Pawnshop in 1962 and has it to this day......
This guy is a highly decorated veteran but I think its possible even he was duped.
Most of these things are too good to be true but if you have ever watched antiques roadshow they do happen from time to time.
This guy is a highly decorated veteran but I think its possible even he was duped.
Most of these things are too good to be true but if you have ever watched antiques roadshow they do happen from time to time.
"I've never heard of any pistol that has been authenticated as belonging to Hitler at any time in his life."
I am not saying this is 100% verifiable truth, but in one episode of "Tales of the Gun", they have a pistol that they claim belonged to Hitler. It was a PPK that was presented to Hitler by Walther. Very highly engraved etc. with the initials AH on the grips. They didn't get in to how it was captured or any of that. It was in the episode called Million Dollar guns or something like that.
I am not saying this is 100% verifiable truth, but in one episode of "Tales of the Gun", they have a pistol that they claim belonged to Hitler. It was a PPK that was presented to Hitler by Walther. Very highly engraved etc. with the initials AH on the grips. They didn't get in to how it was captured or any of that. It was in the episode called Million Dollar guns or something like that.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Cynicism aside...
You're talking to the wrong people.
If the gun IS as you feel, and authentic, your friend needs to be talking to any of several dealers who specialize in such weapons. You can find them on the internet. (There's a dealer in a nearby town who has some knowledge of these types of weapons... http://www.cherrys.com.) Also, do a search on the internet for SIMPSONs, a firm that specializes in the period and the weapons.
But be prepared to be disappointed, and let your friend know this, too. It is very, very unlikely that these guns are as claimed. They might be valuable representative weapons of the period, however, and the gun in question might be worth $1000 - $2000. Who knows?
But don't get hopes up.
There is a cottage industry that flourishes making second-rate WWII weapons look like special, highly valuable weapons. They're crooked, but the money is good.
You're talking to the wrong people.
If the gun IS as you feel, and authentic, your friend needs to be talking to any of several dealers who specialize in such weapons. You can find them on the internet. (There's a dealer in a nearby town who has some knowledge of these types of weapons... http://www.cherrys.com.) Also, do a search on the internet for SIMPSONs, a firm that specializes in the period and the weapons.
But be prepared to be disappointed, and let your friend know this, too. It is very, very unlikely that these guns are as claimed. They might be valuable representative weapons of the period, however, and the gun in question might be worth $1000 - $2000. Who knows?
But don't get hopes up.
There is a cottage industry that flourishes making second-rate WWII weapons look like special, highly valuable weapons. They're crooked, but the money is good.
Hkmp5sd
Member
444,
Didn't know that. I'd like to see that episode. What other guns did they show?
Didn't know that. I'd like to see that episode. What other guns did they show?
Hitler's PPK from that episode was found at the Eagle's Nest in Bavaria and also is supposed to have blood on it. Doubtful it's his (no way) but maybe he shot someone else with it at close range.
Hilter was a head of state and as such was presented with a number of weapons formally and informally.
Hilter was a head of state and as such was presented with a number of weapons formally and informally.
Hitlers pistol
The history can had a program on last month about million dollar guns, and they had one of his pistols on that was documented, had ivory grips but cant remember what make it was. maybe a search would turn up some info. From what i hear gun forgery is running rampant on Ebay and some others, think i heard in calif. some people were arrested for weapons scams.
The history can had a program on last month about million dollar guns, and they had one of his pistols on that was documented, had ivory grips but cant remember what make it was. maybe a search would turn up some info. From what i hear gun forgery is running rampant on Ebay and some others, think i heard in calif. some people were arrested for weapons scams.
HK, I don't really remember now, I do remember they had the Colt Single Action Army #1, that was actually in cirulation; it wasn't kept at the factory, it was sold at the retail level and eventually someone realized what they had.
I do remember them saying that the PPK had blood on it and I think they said it was Hitlers blood type. I don't remember them saying where it came from. I know I would have remembered if they said it was from the Eagle's Nest because that would have meant that someone from the 101 Airborne got it; interesting read about them taking Berchtesgaden in the BOOK, Band of Brothers. One guy from Wyoming had Hitler's personal photo albums until his death in the 1950s. The officers are still eating off the china and using the silverware to this day.
I tell you what I am gonna do; I will watch the tape tonight and get back to you with the details.
Edit: Maybe I spoke too soon. I looked through my NRA tapes and I don't think I have that one. I must have just seen it on The History Channel. I know I saw it within the last month.
I do remember them saying that the PPK had blood on it and I think they said it was Hitlers blood type. I don't remember them saying where it came from. I know I would have remembered if they said it was from the Eagle's Nest because that would have meant that someone from the 101 Airborne got it; interesting read about them taking Berchtesgaden in the BOOK, Band of Brothers. One guy from Wyoming had Hitler's personal photo albums until his death in the 1950s. The officers are still eating off the china and using the silverware to this day.
I tell you what I am gonna do; I will watch the tape tonight and get back to you with the details.
Edit: Maybe I spoke too soon. I looked through my NRA tapes and I don't think I have that one. I must have just seen it on The History Channel. I know I saw it within the last month.
I believe his everyday guns were a PPK in .32acp and one in .25acp. supposedly one was what he used to end his sorry life and the other was recovered.
The predecessors to the P-38 were hammerless. The AP 1936-37 and the MP up until the fourth version that had the external hammer that the army wanted.
The predecessors to the P-38 were hammerless. The AP 1936-37 and the MP up until the fourth version that had the external hammer that the army wanted.
dfariswheel
Member
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The Hitler Walther shown on The History of the Gun, was a PP model, NOT a PPK. Next time it's on, check the length of the slide.
It was made by Walther for presentation to Hitler, and this is verified by the Walther factory both by the serial number and the very special work done to it. It was heavily engraved, gold plated, ivory gripped, and had "AH" initials inlaid into the grip.
There is a very tiny amount of blood of Hitler's type on the gun. Nobody has ever suggested that this was the gun he used to shoot himself.
There is some discussion that this was the gun his niece shot herself with, (or was shot with), and that her blood type may have been the same as Uncle Hitler.
It was recovered from his apartment in NUREMBERG, not Berlin, and was recovered by US Army personnel.
Good accounts of Hitlers taste in guns has him actually carrying rather plain pistols, without all the gold, engraving, and ivory.
This fit his image of himself as a Soldier, and soldiers didn't carry "pimp" guns. Many fancy guns were presented to him, but the people around him said he usually had fairly plain guns as actual carry pieces.
As an example, when he personally arrested Ernst Roehm (sp?) the SS guards he was with were surprised to see him carrying a plain, no frills, unadorned Luger.
As to what happened to the Hitler suicide gun, either it was the ultimate Nazi icon and was hidden away by die-hard nazis, or it was such a plain, unremarkable Walther PP, that whoever has it probably doesn't suspect what it is. If the did use a plain soldiers pistol, there would be nothing to distinguish it from millions of other PP pistols.
The famous hammerless Walther P-38 prototypes are well known and have all been pictured in books and described pretty well. These were seized by US and possible British troops. There were only a very few made as experimental models, and Hitler never even saw one as far as is know, much less had possession.
As for fake guns, a few years ago I seem to remember a story about somebody getting into trouble for attempting to scam Southaby's with a fake Hitler suicide pistol.
The best fake gun producer may have been Bat Masterson. When he was living in New York and working as a sports writer, he would go down to a pawn shop and buy a load of cheap old revolvers. When people asked him about having one of his famous Kansas guns, he'd give them one of the junkers, along with stories about it's usefulness in his lawman days.
In the 1880's he ordered two plain Colt 4 3/4" rubber gripped sixguns from Colt, and these were his actual lawman guns. Only ONE is known, the other is still out there somewhere.
It was made by Walther for presentation to Hitler, and this is verified by the Walther factory both by the serial number and the very special work done to it. It was heavily engraved, gold plated, ivory gripped, and had "AH" initials inlaid into the grip.
There is a very tiny amount of blood of Hitler's type on the gun. Nobody has ever suggested that this was the gun he used to shoot himself.
There is some discussion that this was the gun his niece shot herself with, (or was shot with), and that her blood type may have been the same as Uncle Hitler.
It was recovered from his apartment in NUREMBERG, not Berlin, and was recovered by US Army personnel.
Good accounts of Hitlers taste in guns has him actually carrying rather plain pistols, without all the gold, engraving, and ivory.
This fit his image of himself as a Soldier, and soldiers didn't carry "pimp" guns. Many fancy guns were presented to him, but the people around him said he usually had fairly plain guns as actual carry pieces.
As an example, when he personally arrested Ernst Roehm (sp?) the SS guards he was with were surprised to see him carrying a plain, no frills, unadorned Luger.
As to what happened to the Hitler suicide gun, either it was the ultimate Nazi icon and was hidden away by die-hard nazis, or it was such a plain, unremarkable Walther PP, that whoever has it probably doesn't suspect what it is. If the did use a plain soldiers pistol, there would be nothing to distinguish it from millions of other PP pistols.
The famous hammerless Walther P-38 prototypes are well known and have all been pictured in books and described pretty well. These were seized by US and possible British troops. There were only a very few made as experimental models, and Hitler never even saw one as far as is know, much less had possession.
As for fake guns, a few years ago I seem to remember a story about somebody getting into trouble for attempting to scam Southaby's with a fake Hitler suicide pistol.
The best fake gun producer may have been Bat Masterson. When he was living in New York and working as a sports writer, he would go down to a pawn shop and buy a load of cheap old revolvers. When people asked him about having one of his famous Kansas guns, he'd give them one of the junkers, along with stories about it's usefulness in his lawman days.
In the 1880's he ordered two plain Colt 4 3/4" rubber gripped sixguns from Colt, and these were his actual lawman guns. Only ONE is known, the other is still out there somewhere.
berettaman
Member
Hitlers Gun
Technically with armaments of the German State,and Hitler being the German State all guns in Germany were Hitlers!!
Technically with armaments of the German State,and Hitler being the German State all guns in Germany were Hitlers!!
Many years ago (which doesn't make it valid) I read a newspaper account of Hitler's death. It was supposedly an interview with an aide who was present.
It noted that although Hitler had a silver plated 7.65mm Luger, he shot himself with a standard P-'08. There is probably no way of ever authenticating it. Whoever took it would have kept quiet for a long time, and there's no way to know for sure where it is now, whether it was a Walther PP, a standard P-08, etc. The person who took it very probably was later killed by the Soviets, or went into deep hiding.
Now: anyone know who has Jim Bowie's knife from the Alamo? Similar circumstances prevailed, and no one even knows just which knife he was carrying then. Probably some Mexican GI who didn't even know the knife was famous took it off him, or he still wore it when his body went on the fire decreed by Santa Anna.
Lone Star
It noted that although Hitler had a silver plated 7.65mm Luger, he shot himself with a standard P-'08. There is probably no way of ever authenticating it. Whoever took it would have kept quiet for a long time, and there's no way to know for sure where it is now, whether it was a Walther PP, a standard P-08, etc. The person who took it very probably was later killed by the Soviets, or went into deep hiding.
Now: anyone know who has Jim Bowie's knife from the Alamo? Similar circumstances prevailed, and no one even knows just which knife he was carrying then. Probably some Mexican GI who didn't even know the knife was famous took it off him, or he still wore it when his body went on the fire decreed by Santa Anna.
Lone Star
another48hrs
Member
I saw a History Channel special about the Luger and they had a million dollar 45acp Luger on there. So I think it would be in the episode of million dollar guns.
Jim Watson
Member
Bonib,
I think we need to get off the Hitler connection which is unprovable and subject to fakery and skepticism and get out a complete description and picture of the gun in question. The Germans in general and Walther in particular were much given to experimentation, development, prototyping, and pre-production runs. There are a good number of unusual Walthers around and a nice one, as Walt S. says, will be worth in the low thousands of dollars. And who knows what a real expert might turn up?
I think we need to get off the Hitler connection which is unprovable and subject to fakery and skepticism and get out a complete description and picture of the gun in question. The Germans in general and Walther in particular were much given to experimentation, development, prototyping, and pre-production runs. There are a good number of unusual Walthers around and a nice one, as Walt S. says, will be worth in the low thousands of dollars. And who knows what a real expert might turn up?
762x51
Member
dfariswheel is correct.....the gun is a PP not PPK. For those who missed the episode of Tales of the Gun....here is a picture:
I did get some what of an update on the guns. The 6 guns were taken directly from the Walthers factory. All six guns were labled with names of who was to receive them. Hitlers name was on one. Not engraved on the gun though. They were never handed out. The Col. kept #40 and he gave the rest to Generals. Eisenhower and Bradely both received one. Will get the rest of the names later. (to old to remember that much at one time) I guess I will have to write it down next time I am told.
Chipperman
Member
Nobody knows for sure what Hitler shot himself with. It's all conjecture, with no corroborating evidence.
There's not even any solid proof that he DID shoot himself.
There's not even any solid proof that he DID shoot himself.
dfariswheel
Member
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- 6,656
bonib:
Stranger things have turned up. Germany in 1945-46 was a "collector's" paradise. Souvenirs of all types were picked up and guns were a premium item to bring home.
Walther did make a very small number of hammerless P-38 prototypes but these were apparently in the single digit numbers, and all are well known and documented.
If I understand the story correctly, these guns were taken from the Walther factory by a US soldier. If so, there's a real problem because the Walther factory was in Zella-Melis. This was in the area seized by the Russians who looted it, boxed up the machinery, and shipped most of it back to Russia before any American ever saw it.
As I understand it, by the time we saw it, there was nothing left but the bare walls.
The Walther prototypes that turned up, were found in the Western sectors of Germany.
This DOES NOT mean this gun isn't legit. Every time a WWII European theater vet dies weird and wild things turn up. It is entirely possible you've chanced upon a rare Walther prototype, and if so, it's worth many multiple thousands of dollars.
In this case you need to inform the owners that this should be placed into a safety deposit box until a genuine expert appraiser can validate and assign a possible value. There is a risk that they might allow some unscrupulous person to buy it for a seemingly good price, and they need to understand that if this is real, it's a extremely valuable historical treasure.
Stranger things have turned up. Germany in 1945-46 was a "collector's" paradise. Souvenirs of all types were picked up and guns were a premium item to bring home.
Walther did make a very small number of hammerless P-38 prototypes but these were apparently in the single digit numbers, and all are well known and documented.
If I understand the story correctly, these guns were taken from the Walther factory by a US soldier. If so, there's a real problem because the Walther factory was in Zella-Melis. This was in the area seized by the Russians who looted it, boxed up the machinery, and shipped most of it back to Russia before any American ever saw it.
As I understand it, by the time we saw it, there was nothing left but the bare walls.
The Walther prototypes that turned up, were found in the Western sectors of Germany.
This DOES NOT mean this gun isn't legit. Every time a WWII European theater vet dies weird and wild things turn up. It is entirely possible you've chanced upon a rare Walther prototype, and if so, it's worth many multiple thousands of dollars.
In this case you need to inform the owners that this should be placed into a safety deposit box until a genuine expert appraiser can validate and assign a possible value. There is a risk that they might allow some unscrupulous person to buy it for a seemingly good price, and they need to understand that if this is real, it's a extremely valuable historical treasure.
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