HK is it fair?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Brutz, Sep 19, 2009.

?

pricey or not?

  1. way too much

    116 vote(s)
    67.1%
  2. adequately priced

    57 vote(s)
    32.9%
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  1. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    It depends. I paid over $700 for my first P7 many years ago. If I for some reason had to, I'd pay that again. If they were only available at $1,000, and I lost all of mine, I'd probably pay that. I really like the design and i carry it every day.

    There are several on gunbroker in the $600 range, so I don't think those are overpriced . . . but they are used trade in guns so that distorts the issue.

    When I wanted to suppress a .45, I could have gotten most standard .45s and added ~$200 for an extended, threaded barrel or gotten the ready made HK Tac. They seem to cost more now, but my HK Tactical was a better deal at the time than adding a barrel to other guns, so I thought it was well priced.

    In general though, I think their new guns are expensive for what they are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  2. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Member

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    HK is one of those companies that does stuff their own way. They flute their chambers and have fairly deep polygonal rifling. Having a fluted chamber is an expense other companies don't think it is justified for what it costs. HK does it because it helps with extraction and ejection even if it is just marginally. They also spend a lot of time and money on alloys for their pistols. They do give you more for your money. The question I think would be appropriate. Is what they give you worth the cost? They do spend money on things you don't have to have. On the MP5 sub mg they use the more expensive x15 steel than say 4140. X15 has quite a bit of nitrogen in it which more or less functions in the place of carbon within the steel. Gives it corrosion resistance independant of chrome content. Many people wouldn't find the price difference worth the benefit especially since you can parkerize 4140 and it will shoot just fine.
     
  3. Cards81fan

    Cards81fan Member

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    +1 this is where I stand. I have no problem with HK, their products or their price. I understand the small things they put into their pistols that make them simply feel more refined and finished in my hands, i.e. on the p30 a smooth ambidextrous slide release, the nicely stippled grips from the factory, and the semi-ambidextrous decocker.

    That said, I'll never own one because I am extremely cheap! At 300, my used XD cost a third of what a comparable model new HK would cost, or roughly half a used HK. While I concede the HK is nicer than an XD or Glock IMHO, it's not worth (to me) the extra scratch. They both function the same; my XD, while crude when seen next to the HK, has been 100% functional and reliable.

    Perhaps if I carried daily as an LEO (my carry is much smaller than either: an LCP), I could justify spending the extra money on one that's as cool as it is functional. But for as (relatively) infrequently as I carry and use a service-size pistol, the XD suits me well for the money.

    But don't take that as me saying anything poor about the HK. It's just like when I bought my used Dakota last December: While the admittedly-niced 2005 Tacoma quad-cab 4x4 was more desirable, it was double or more the price of my 2005 Dakota quad-cab 4x4, so the $8k Dodge won out.

    Maybe if I get a nice bonus this Christmas I'll find a beater P7 that shoots well (the uglier and cheaper, the better!) - the design of those is too cool to not own one!
     
  4. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    If an HK comes down to $500, then a Glock should be $250. Just sayin.

    Guns are like cars, there's a myriad to choose from. They all pretty much do the same thing, get you from point A to point B. Some are more reliable than others. Some look ugly, some look sexy. They all have a place for different people. If Joe Blow buys an Accord for $27K and Jane Smith buys a Camry for $24K, is he a dumb ass because he could've bought a Camry and saved $3K? Maybe there's certain quirks about the Accord that, he felt, warranted spending a few extra grand on. :shrug: And I can only correlate an HK owner to the ****** bag BMW owner stigma. Why buy a BMW if you can get an Infiniti for thousands less? Maybe because some people can appreciate the difference.

    BTW, I don't own a Bimmer because I think they're ****** bags. :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  5. DougDubya

    DougDubya Member

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    You mean like the SW9VE?

    :D

    Just sayin'

    (I do love the SIGMA, so that wasn't an insult.)
     
  6. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    Then that would have to drop down to like $99. :p
     
  7. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    And the Hi-point would be like, $20-40 depending on the model!


    ....Don't we all wish for those prices?...
     
  8. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Did the BMW thing. Now drive a Toyota if that tells you anything.

    Mehh. Still just a gun. Not any better or worse than plenty of other choices. If you do actually shoot your guns (unlike most people AFAICT), the cost of the ammo dwarfs the couple hundred dollars in price.
     
  9. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    Just trying to say that "worth" is completely subjective and if you're the type of person that needs someone else's affirmation to feel confident about your gun then it's probably not for you since there'll always be people bashing HK since it's like the BMW of handguns in a way.
     
  10. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Member

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    Not a very subtle way of making your point. One could infer you are calling HK owners a *****bag. I like HKs and I like the quality HK produces to. I also don't like how much they cost and only buy them used.
     
  11. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    It's a stigma. Just sayin.
     
  12. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    I'm seeing a lot of comparisons here between HK's premium price and that of high-end 1911s or 1911s in general. Its very much an apples to oranges comparison. Granted, there are plenty of 1911 makers out there adding a brand name premium to their asking price, but 1911s have a steel frame that requires a good bit of complex machining work. Also higher-end guns come with some level of hand fitting. Both of those things are expensive. Molding a polymer frame is dirt cheap, and I don't think there's any hand fitting going into HK pistols.

    A better comparison would be that of HK to other plastic pistols. When making that comparison, what makes the HK cost a few hundred dollars more? I would expect a better trigger, or better accuracy, or some extra feature. They can't really have better reliability, because most other new-production plastic guns sport near-flawless reliability, as well.

    That said, there's nothing wrong with paying a premium for a gun if you just really like it. I've done it more than once. Claiming that premium is getting you some extra tangible benefit is rather silly, though.
    Also an excellent point.
     
  13. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    There is way to much Blasphemy in this thread, I'm going to stop reading it before I get struck by lightning.
     
  14. dkk73

    dkk73 Member

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    In my humble opinion, HK makes the "best" pistols. From my viewpoint. Or at least well worth the money. I have not regretted for a second buying a USP 45c ($540) or two P7 PSPs (about $550-600 from what I recall). I will buy an HK45 at the current ridiculous rates when I can afford one; I'm delaying not because "they're not worth it" but because I can't spare the money for one right now.

    I would easily pay double for the P7's because they fit perfectly my needs for a carry gun. They incorporate so many elements that speak to "optimal design" for what I want to do, and good engineering for its own sake. I wish someone would create a newer gun that competes with it for features.

    The only problem I had was the finish. So I had one nitro-carburized ("Tenifer" or "Hostile Environment" finish) for somewhere around $150.

    The USP's trigger is not great. But it offered the flexibility of manual of arms that I wanted. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to make my Glock perfect and I finally realized the design didn't do what I wanted.

    In my view:
    -HK is more like an older Mercedes than BMW, or maybe like Subaru... engineering dominates
    -Glock could be anything from Toyota to a modern Ford Mustang.... They guys who drive them outnumber you by an insane ratio and will spend an inordinate amount of time tricking their machines out and telling you how superior they are and if you don't get it it's your problem. It's a fine gun, just not perfect for everyone by a long shot. I used to own Glocks.
    -1911 is like a Fiat or old Jaguar or a Ferrari, depending on how much you spend... Yes it's nice, feels good (right trigger or shifter or balance or whatever) and has history but it's not (sorry) dead-nuts reliable and it's not a guaranteed experience if you aren't going to put money into it, or effort to make sure you get a good one.

    The HK45 addresses one of the big issues of the USP series; grip size and fit.

    The metallurgy and build quality may not be as good as in days past (cough P7->P7M8 bushing) but the solidity and engineering follow-through is still top-drawer in my opinion.

    Ugly? Why, yes, thank you. Clunky? A bit. So.... what.

    :)

    (I think you will find that people who like HKs generally end up having strong feelings... To clarify, I am *not* a brand snob in the least, but I do pay attention to which companies seem to try and have keep up their track record...)
     
  15. pwrtool45

    pwrtool45 Member

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    Stated as succinctly as possible. Well done.
     
  16. benderx4

    benderx4 Member

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    If you have to ask, you just don't get 'it' - and that's okay.
     
  17. EOC_Jason

    EOC_Jason Member

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    What HK pistol are you considering and what do you consider the $200+ cost difference against which competitor?

    I'm sure historically prices were a little high because HK are manufactured overseas and there is a labor & material cost difference over there, plus having to import them to the states I bet our government has some nice taxes for that. How were Beretta prices before they started making them in the US? I'm sure HK prices will become more competitive as their US made guns ramp up in production.

    I think the better question like others have said... Are Sig's overpriced or not? Are Kimber's overpriced? Are Nighthawks overpriced? (I'm not trying to start a debate.) When comparing costs, you really have to take a look at what each gun offers as no two are alike. It's really hard to do an apples to apples comparison. You can read all you want online about them, but until you put one in your hand and fire some rounds, you will not know for sure if you like it or not.

    Guns are like cars, there's a million models and variations. Everyone has their favorite. Demand drives the market prices... period.
     
  18. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Why should'nt the best have a premium price? About 10 years ago I bought my first HK, I had a choice between it and several other pistols for less initial investment. I am glad to say that I am extremely happy I didn't decide to go cheap back then.

    Folks just love to complain about HK's customer service, taxes, and the weather.

    In the end I would put my HK 45 up against any other pistol on the planet, and that confidence is worth more than a measly $200.
     
  19. gtmtnbiker98

    gtmtnbiker98 Member

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    If you have to ask if they are worth it probably means you either can't afford it or shouldn't buy it. Which ever shoe fits, feel free to wear it. HKs utilize special metals for their barrels that are specifically supplied exclusively by a single vendor. They are proofed twice, test fired and then shipped. Calculate the import tariff's and extra steps in their QC process and you'll quickly arrive at their premium price tags.

    I own several HKs and take for example, my P30. I paid $780 OTD for my P30 (I own more than one BTW) compare that to a Sig P229 at $750+ and they aren't that much more than the competition. On the other hand, you can buy a Glock for $499 with plastic sights, only to turn around and invest another estimated $100 for night sights and you are quickly approaching $600 in a Glock. The M&Ps have taken a price hike recently and they are no longer the big bargain they once were. With that said, both the Glock and M&P are fine pieces of equipment and yes, cheaper than the HK. I myself prefer HK for my polymer pistols and Sig for all things steel and alloy.

    As for the comment that stated that "H und K users can't shoot," I would love the opportunity to show you on the range. I use a P30 in both IDPA and USPSA and I compete as an SSP/ESP MA and USPSA Production MA.
     
  20. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    I'm no expert but I shoot HK's just fine. What a ****** bag. :p
     
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