HK P7 PSP, swapping protruding mag release for flush one?

[Kano383]

For those who have or had both the “flush” mag release and “protruding” versions of the P7 PSP - or simply know the answer...

Can a “flush” mag release paddle/button be installed on a “protruding” frame? I know that the frame has a different shape there, but from pictures it seems doable. Of course the grips would be changed accordingly.

Thanks!

 

[George P]

What's a protruding magazine? All of my mags sit flush on both of my P7 PSPs

 

[gc70]

The mag releases are of substantially different widths and the frames of the guns are cut differently to accommodate them.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Can a “flush” mag release paddle/button be installed on a “protruding” frame? I know that the frame has a different shape there, but from pictures it seems doable. Of course the grips would be changed accordingly.

Almost anything is doable if you're willing to spend enough money, but it would be a lot more involved than just changing the grips. The biggest hurdle would be cutting away the heel of the frame for clearance...and the metal of the P7 is very hard.

If you just want a recessed/shielded magazine release, just add the longer grip panels to the standard frame.

If you want the wider release, I'd have to ask "Why?"...unless you're just looking for a slower reload

 

[FL-NC]

Unfortunately, the only guy I ever knew who was P7 armorer qualified was killed in Afg. If its doable, good luck finding the part(s).

 

[9mmepiphany]

Finding an P7 smith isn't an issue, there's one in Fossil OR. When he might get around to doing the work might be an issue as he is pretty backlogged.

He might not do it if it offends his sensibilities or he doesn't think it is worth what he'd have to charge. His most current P7 work is making long slides versions of the P7M13 like he used to shoot in USPSA

 

[Kano383]

gc70, thanks for the pics!

The biggest hurdle would be cutting away the heel of the frame for clearance...and the metal of the P7 is very hard.

If you want the wider release, I'd have to ask "Why?"...unless you're just looking for a slower reload

Why does the wider release slow the reloads? Just curious.

I’m looking for a PSP, and don’t want a magazine release that can be activated inadvertently (seat belt, etc.). But I may see a very nice gun at a good price in that configuration, and if I know that I can amend the release then the protruding release is not a deal breaker anymore. The wider release fills the void in the grips nicely, and seems easier to activate than the narrower one once the extended grips are installed.

As for cutting the frame, the earlier ones have a smaller heel, as you can see from the pics. On the wide release frame, the “cuts” for the release are in fact largely (if not entirely) outside the heel profile of the early frames, so that wider release may very well fit directly on those frames, or with minimal cuts. I have seen pictures on the net of PSPs that seemed to be just that, an early frame with a wider release and longer grips.

 

[Kano383]

Google is your friend... And then you end up looking at hundreds of pics trying to find something that you know you saw, but can’t remember where and when.

Here is one that seems to be a mag release conversion:

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have seen pictures on the net of PSPs that seemed to be just that, an early frame with a wider release and longer grips.

Here is one that seems to be a mag release conversion

That wasn't done aftermarket, that is a factory gun.

There are 3 variations of the heel release on the P7...you'll note that Variant 3 lacks the scallop cut (A) of Variant 2

 

[9mmepiphany]

Why does the wider release slow the reloads? Just curious.

The optimal technique for a rapid mag change with the P7 PSP is to slide you support hand thumb down the backstrap and pressing across the magazine release in a milking motion...allowing the magazine to be ejected from the magwell

That can't be done with the wider release as it is shielded by the longer grip panels. To activate the wider magazine release, you'd have to align your support hand thumb along the centerline of the frame to clear both panels...that is why the scallop tapers toward the top; to lead the thumb to the release. Variant 3 is even slower as there is a tendency to catch the edge of the release as you slide your thumb downward and apply downward pressure rather than the required forward pressure.

I've carried my P7 as a duty gun, as my CCW, and used it in IDPA competition. I've never had the magazine inadvertently release, but then I've never dropping it on the release either

 

[Kano383]

That wasn't done aftermarket, that is a factory gun.

There are 3 variations of the heel release on the P7...you'll note that Variant 3 lacks the scallop cut (A) of Variant 2
View attachment 780642

The optimal technique for a rapid mag change with the P7 PSP is to slide you support hand thumb down the backstrap and pressing across the magazine release in a milking motion...allowing the magazine to be ejected from the magwell

That can't be done with the wider release as it is shielded by the longer grip panels. To activate the wider magazine release, you'd have to align your support hand thumb along the centerline of the frame to clear both panels...that is why the scallop tapers toward the top; to lead the thumb to the release. Variant 3 is even slower as there is a tendency to catch the edge of the release as you slide your thumb downward and apply downward pressure rather than the required forward pressure.

I've carried my P7 as a duty gun, as my CCW, and used it in IDPA competition. I've never had the magazine inadvertently release, but then I've never dropping it on the release either

Thanks, good pictures and clear explanations.

My guess is that variant III in the picture is actually II in the timeline, these being variant I frames cut to accept the wider release. Scalloped frames were then developed to address the thumb catching on the ledge.

From all this and other readings, my impression is that the early PSP were really well thought-out, and that subsequent mods in release, ending in the M8, were afterthought complications added to please a picky public, at the expense of simplicity.

OK, P7 and simple don’t belong in the same sentence if you take the gun as a whole... But when it comes to use and external features it‘s a masterpiece of simplicity.

 

[George P]

P7 and simple don’t belong in the same sentence if you take the gun as a whole... But when it comes to use and external features it‘s a masterpiece of simplicity.

Why I, especially being LH, love these guns

 

[9mmepiphany]

My guess is that variant III in the picture is actually II in the timeline, these being variant I frames cut to accept the wider release. Scalloped frames were then developed to address the thumb catching on the ledge.

From all this and other readings, my impression is that the early PSP were really well thought-out, and that subsequent mods in release, ending in the M8, were afterthought complications added to please a picky public, at the expense of simplicity.

The Variant names/numbering are factory designations...they are numbered in the order they were introduced.

The first flush mag release had the different frame and scallop cut. Variant 3 was the last modification before introduction of the M8...and was the retrofit of Variant 1 guns that agencies wanted modified.

The M8 mag release ( along with modifications to the sights, trigger guard, striker assembly) was to win a contract with the New Jersey State Police. Those modifications were retained when H&K submitted the M13 for the US Military trials

 

[9mmepiphany]

Why I, especially being LH, love these guns

They really are rather ambidextrous and are my default when folks would ask about a lefty friendly pistol ...especially when they don't offer a budget limitation.

The only thing not lefty friendly is the slide stop, but then it isn't very righty friendly either...at least it isn't also the slide release

 

[George P]

Slide stop? Not on my P7; want to release the slide, just squeeze................

 

[9mmepiphany]

Slide stop? Not on my P7; want to release the slide, just squeeze................

I'm not talking about releasing the slide. I'm talking about locking the slide back, with the Slide Stop, without a magazine in the gun

Are you saying that your slide stop...not the release...is easy for a lefty to reach?

That would somewhat surprising as it is so unobtrusive that a lot of folks don't even know where it is.

 

[George P]

The only thing on my gun is the button for the slide release, there is no slide stop or release. Take the mag out, how do you lock the slide back? With the slide locked back, squeeze the cocker and releases the slide; I don't see a way to lock the slide back without a mag in.

 

[ttarp]

The little dingus the arrow is pointing to is the slide stop, unobtrusive is putting it lightly.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The only thing on my gun is the button for the slide release

That is the take down button

..., there is no slide stop or release. Take the mag out, how do you lock the slide back? With the slide locked back, squeeze the cocker and releases the slide; I don't see a way to lock the slide back without a mag in.

I gather you either don't have or haven't read the owners manual, that explains your response to my comment about the slide stop and your confusing it with how the slide is released...you just didn't know it was there; as mentioned in Post #16

Unlike the Walther PP/PPK family, every H&K P7 has a Slide Stop on the left side of the frame behind the trigger guard which allows a user to manually retract the slide and lock it in the open position. It is activated, after the slide is retracted, by pressing it to the rear with the right thumb

 

[George P]

Must be my old eyes; have never noticed that in all these years - thanks.......still don't why I would use it, but always nice to learn something new

 

[9mmepiphany]

still don't why I would use it, but always nice to learn something new

I use it all the time in competition and training when Showing Clear.

I lock the slide back to show that the chamber is empty, before closing the slide and pulling the trigger before holstering and leaving the line

 

[George P]

My slide locks back when I empty the mag; but then I don't shoot metallic competition....

 

[usp9]

Years ago, when I was a new owner of my first P7 and the manual was in German, I had to ask someone I thought would know what that odd little button was for. Obvious after you know, (what else could it be), yet still not intuitive to anyone IMHO.