HK p7m8: pros and cons?

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Liam_G

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Location
western washington
I'm interested in your opinions on the p7m8. I held and dry-fired one of these the other day, after wanting one for many years. I love the trigger, and the gun feels very good in my hand. I'm considering buying it, but have a few pros and cons, and would just like more input. I've searched and read archive posts on the gun here and on other sites as well, but thought I would ask again ...

Here are my pros and cons so far.

Pro:
1) feels great in my hand
2) very slim for CCW
3) trigger is very nice
4) points very naturally
5) from all accounts, it is extremely accurate
6) seems to be extremely well made

Con:
1) manual of arms is different from my norm (Sig p239)
2) The heat issue I see brought up from time to time (although in a real scenario, I'll only have a max of about 3 magazines of ammo with me when I carry anyway)
3) complexity: is the design just too complicated, compared to 'standard' da/sa autos?
4) that nice trigger: being used to a DA first shot, I think I might need to forsake the da/sa autos and train and carry this pistol almost exclusively so that my reactions will be correct

Any advice? Thanks for your input.

Respectfully,
Liam
 
Switching from one gun to another is not a good idea, you may react as if you were carrying a different gun...I never understood the heat problem, perhaps there are certain size or shape hands that have a problem. I never had the problem....Yes they are very accurate and very well made....Trigger is excellent and no DA/SA to contend with. Carry mine ,used it in years of IPSC, woodchucks etc My PSP after 10,000 rounds doesn't even show wear. If it points well for you , go for it.
 
My wife and I went through 5 P7's (older like new one, older "broken in" one, new LINIB one, etc) before we decided that they just weren't for us. My wife liked the gun, but couldn't consistently depress the cocking mechanism with only her strong hand, and couldn't do it at all with her weak hand. I liked the gun as well, but even though it felt good in my hand, it always pointed low for me and I had a hard time finding the front sight quickly. I finally realized that I shot both my CZ-75 AND my Makarov better then the P7 and that there wasn't anything the P7 could do for me that I couldn't do better with one of the other two less expensive guns.

Try one out. If you like it, there will be nothing else like it for you, but don't let the "Cult of the P7" mystique cloud your vision. They just don't work for everyone.

BTW, I still have one P7 PSP for sale here on the board. It's the last of the P7's we tried and one of the best for CCW. I liked the heel clip mag release, but the gun still pointed low for me.
 
I got one of the German Police trade ins for around $600

(Thanks WildIwanteveryonetoownap7Alaska)

I wanted to try one and thought I could sell it for about what I had in it if it didn't work out.

I will never sell it...I amazed at how well I shoot it

My local shop has some police trade in m8's for $629 ...and I am weakening...
 
I had and carried an early P7M13 when they first came out. They are great guns but do pretty much require that you dedicate yourself to the gun, as the manual of arms is different from most others. Actually, its not even close to any of them. Once you do get used to it, its not a big deal. They are very accurate and easy to shoot and have the fastest reload going with that big hole for a mag well, the tapered mag and the squeeze cocker for the slide release. My biggest complaint at the time, which really wasnt the guns fault but more a holster issue, was that I would find the mag that was in the gun on the front seat after I got out. There werent but two holsters available for it at the time and neither was very good. The mag release was exposed and the seatbelt was hitting it and releasing the mag as I drove. You may want to keep that in mind when you look for a holster, if it hasnt already been addressed. Another holster issue is, the gun is top heavy when in the holster and can tend to want to roll out of your pants when using an IWB type holster and certain positions of carry. If used in the cross draw and you bend over, you very well may be looking at the muzzle when you come up and/or the gun going towards the ground. The only other thing that bothered me was the thought of loosing it to the evidence room if I did have to use it. The price on them has shot up considerably and loosing a $450(which is what I paid for mine) gun vs a $1000(what they jumped to while I had it) gun just kind of bugs me. :) I ended up selling mine and getting a couple of Glocks for what I sold it for. That was a mistake.:(
I should have stayed with the 1911's. :)
 
I have two and like them a lot. Here's a rather exaustive look at the pros and cons of the P7 from the Park Cities Tactical website:

PRO

1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.

2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.

3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).

4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.

5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.

6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).

7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.

8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.

9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.

10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).

11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.

12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.

13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.

14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.

15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.

16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.


Con

1. The gun gets uncomfortably hot after 60 (or so) rapid shots. More of a training problem than a "real world" consideration.

2. Finish lacks durability. Blued finish wears quickly and is very little protection against corrosion.

3. Very expensive. At over $1000, this gun is out of the range of many buyers.

4. The gun's design is such that it gets dirty quickly when shot.

5. The gun malfunctions when not maintained properly. While this is true of all guns, the P7 seems to be more sensitive than most modern autos. The solution is to keep the gas cylinder clean.

6. The P7's cocking lever emits a click when released. This is more of an issue with SEAL wannabes than real people. The theory is that the noise will alert the bad guys to your presence. Easily overcome with technique anyway (press in cocking latch at top of cocking lever while releasing your grip). With this technique the gun is almost silent and certainly quieter than any SIG or USP with decocking lever.

7. Low capacity. Except in now unavailable M13 (LEO only) and M10 (discontinued for ugliness), capacity is limited to 9 rounds (with one in chamber).

8. Grip screws come loose too easily. Use lock-tite.

9. Can't use lead bullets (see cleanliness issues above).

10. Slide lock button too small for some.

11. Magazine release on M8/M13 too sensitive to careless holstering (accidental magazine ejection). PSP model doesn't suffer from this (Euro-magazine catch).

12. During an emergency a user might accidentally squeeze the trigger while squeezing the cocking lever. I personally think this isn't a problem. The P7 was designed with a fair amount of take-up in the trigger so the gun is tolerant of some sloppiness. The moral of the story is to keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to kill something. It should also be noted that your trigger finger is relatively independent of your other fingers. I can't remember the physiological term, but the other three fingers usually act in unison while the index finger is only partially connected. Still, in an emergency anything is possible--practice proper form with all firearms!

13. For some, seriously ham-fisted users, the gun might be accidentally disassembled if the take down button is inadvertently pressed while the slide is being racked. This is extremely unlikely, however, it can be done with practice.

14. Disassembly not for mere mortals. A "detail strip"
can involve a lot of head/heart ache. The gun has a fair number of parts but the real problem is the gun's unorthodox design [Expert reassembly tip, use grease to hold in the mag release spring--otherwise you will go mad trying to hold everything together while attempting to drive in the assembly pin]. An armorer at HK told me that they regularly have to reassemble guns for owners who let curiosity get the better of them. Fortunately, there is really no reason to strip it down beyond a "field strip." Just spray in some gun oil and wipe.

15. Possible difficulty depressing cocking lever with weak or injured hands. My father has weakness in his right hand related to a stroke he had a few years ago. For a while he was unable to cock my M8. On the other hand, once the lever is squeezed it only takes about a pound and a half to keep it cocked.
 
Cons...I can't stop buying leather for it...

IMG0001_1.jpg
 
I had one several years ago; it was a very nice gun.

Accuracy was stellar, reliability was great, and it pointed really really well. Cocking the grip required a moderate amount of hand pressure, but maintaining the cocking required a trivial amount of pressure. It did get hot after blasting through three or four mags of +P ammo, so its not a range queen. Gun is heavy for its size, but well balanced. Mechanism is complex, but there is no reason to detail strip the gun, just remove the grip panels and blast with brake cleaner. Field stripping/reassembly is pretty easy. Gas system seems to be the weakest link, it can plug up with heavy doses of dirty ammo; a friend had the gas system on one of his freeze because of this (HK fixed N/C).

Manual of arms, while it seems radical, really isn't that different when in use (I don't buy pro #9): grip the gun firmly and press the trigger.

For me about the time the mystique wore off, I decided that 9MM wasn't a cartridge I wanted to load or keep stockpiled, and I sold the gun for what I had into it. That's one of the really nice features of the P7: provided you were careful about your purchase, you resell it for your investment if you don't like it. But the odds are you will love the gun.
 
I shot Skunky's. Man, I love this pistol. It's a bit pricey, and the manual of arms is a bit unique, but it's easy to shoot and more accurate than I am.

If you're ever gonna sell it, Skunk, gimme a call first, eh? :D

Oh, yeah: Hope Lunde doesn't post his P7M8 pic. It's insane.
 
Don't shoot one for real... you'll want it.

I fired Justin's and I really took a moment to think about buying one.
 
My local shop has some police trade in m8's for $629 ...and I am weakening...

That is a REALLY good deal on m8s. What date codes and condition are they in?
 
:) You need to post what major city you live near. The odds are someone could be within range to let you test fire a P7. I own six, three M8's and three M13's. I don't try to convince someone "it's for them," that is an individual decision. After nine years shooting and idpa with this weapon system I've learned to adapt to the cleaning requirments for 100% effiency. As far as a different "manual of arms," I have unloaded any DA/SA autoloaders and anything requiring "cocked and locked" to get into action. All my remaining pistols are DAO. Shooting the P7 "trains" the user to "lock to wrist," this is a "key" to preceived lower recoil. Try it, you might like it.;)
 
Thanks for the tip, Texas Bob. I just added a general location to my profile. I live near Seattle, WA ...

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I appreciate all the insights, and will keep thinking it over ...

Regards,
Liam
 
Good replies. Two drawbacks in regard to CC are the P7's weight and grip size.
Both are great for controlled shooting, but they do make CC a little more challenging, particulary in warm weather. Milt Spark makes a Versa Max II (IWB) for them that's a very nice and stabile platform...but just about any cheapo belt slide will cant the pistol nicely, and should work well under a jacket or loose fitting sweater. A big PRO (besides being excellent pistols) is that they're just so damned COOL. :cool:
 
The slide lock is very small and difficult to get to making clearing double-feeds an ordeal even for my nimble little banjopickin' fingers.
 
They're spendy, heavy for their size, have a bizarre manual of arms relative to most other pistols, can't be shot with unjacketed ammo (if you reload), get piggy filthy with dirty lo-bujt ammo, have a fragile factory finish, and are (for all practical purposes) only available in 9mm and smaller calibers.

They also point instinctively for most folks, have very good triggers, are laser-beam accurate, are fast into operation, are slim and easy to tote, are super reliable (if a modicum of care is taken in cleaning), and hold their value well.

Maybe the best single-stack 9mm totin' iron on the planet.

If there weren't so many 1911's I couldn't live without, I might still own mine.
 
Haven't shot my P7M8 or M13 for a couple of years. Love the guns.. don't like 9mm. Love my P7M10. It is one of my favorite guns. I really like big grips and heavy guns and the M10 fits right in. It is much more accurate than I. No tweeks needed out of the box. Smoothest shooting .40 so far. But.. you didn't ask about the M10. I've been thinking of selling the 9's, but haven't made the move.
 
from long and bitter experiance , i loathe the 9mm...

having said that there is no other 9mm to compare with the P7M8... scary accurate , totally reliable , beautifully made...
with a good holster , possibly the nicest to carry auto out there...
so it ain't a lightweight , big fat hairy deal ... the good features far outweigh the bad ...
 
Pro:

The glint of jealousy in the eyes of your friends.
The way it shoots.
The accuracy.
The sweet trigger pull.
Swiss clock internals.
The slim design.
It's an HK.

Con:

Heavy 'lil bugger.
Pain_n_thee_arse to clean.
Pain_n_thee_arse to reassemble (as compared to a Grock).
Price of admission.
Slide lock is made for the fingers of Black Forest elves.
The finish rusts just by looking at it.
Trying to slam a mag home quickly.
Wishing that you'd bought a M8 instead a PSP.
Your jealous friends.
 
I'm a big fan of the P7. Currently own 6 (2 M8s, 3 PSPs and an M13) and shot a seventh to death. If you don't mind holster carry its a great carry gun. I prefer the PSP (heel mag release) over the M8 for carry becasue it is very flat and, while I never had an inadvertant mag release with the M8, there are virtually no worries of that happening with a PSP.

Keep it clean and it runs great. Mine have been utterly reliable. The heat thing is only an issue at the range where you are firing more than 50 rounds. Solution? Buy a second P7! Or bring any other gun to shoot while letting the P7 cool down.

Some decry the price - but a NIB P7 is no more than a decent "custom" 1911 or a stock 1911 with a little work done to it. And if you've handled one, you know from the feel and finish that you have a quality firearm in your hand.

I still use a few P7s as "house guns". The only reason I am not currently not carrying one is I now favor pocket carry of the very light S&W340PD. No concealing garb to worry about.
 
Everything has been pretty much covered here. Good guns, kind of funky, expensive. One thing I will say for them is that they are very consistent, no one P7 will be much better or worse than another. The 3 I've shot were remarkable for their sheer "sameness."

When it comes to excessively expensive, low-capacity 9x19 guns, I like the SIG P210 better myself.
 
I had a P7M8 when they first came out. Siggyboy pretty much covered everything that there is to say about them. I sold mine and went into high capacity 9mms for a long time. They do get hot and I am one of those guys who can disassemble the thing by accident just by racking the slide. I did it twice on my first P7M8. That is one of the main reasons I sold that one. Last year I bought another P7M8 from a friend who needed to sell it. I still have it. It still gets hot and I can still disassemble it by accident. I prefer 1911s, but I'll probably keep this one just because it is so darn fun to own. Watch-Six
 
I didn't notice the date codes...

But the one I looked at had nice sharp rings on the gas piston and just holster wear on the slide.....good shape overall

The only thing holding me back is not wanting 2 different types of magazines...may just watch for another PSP
 
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