HK - Walther PPQ - Browning Range Report

[HKGuns]

I took the HK P30 - Walther PPQ (First time), Browning A-bolt .300WM and Browning A-bolt II .338WM to the range today.

I'll put them all in here as I'm primarily posting about the Walther as it was her first time out with me. All in all a very good day at the range. Temperature was around 48 degrees and quite sunny. There were some distractions on the pistol range, otherwise everything would be in the black. To make a long story short, I'm very pleased with the PPQ and it will be staying in my safe for good.

Walther PPQ
- Trigger is really good.
- Accuracy seems really good as well, judge for yourself from the targets.
- Range 10 yards
- Lots of bullets went through the empty space in the black of the target, total round count unknown. (Switching back and forth)
- Ammo - Winchester 9mm NATO
- Function - 100%

HK P30
- HK Light LEM trigger very good, longer staging than the striker fired Walther.
- I shoot HK's a lot, no surprise it is accurate.
- Range 10 yards
- Lots of bullets went through the empty space in the black of the target, total round count unknown. (Switching back and forth)
- Ammo - Winchester 9mm NATO
- Function - 100% as it has been since day one.

Browning A-Bolt .300 Win Mag
- HS Precision Stock
- Range 100 yards
- Ammo Federal Vital Shock 180gr
- 7 shots




Browning A-Bolt II .338 Win Mag
- Browning Composite Stock
- Range 100 yards
- Ammo Weatherby 225gr
- 5 shots

 

[sigarms228]

Great range report, nice shooting, and thanks for the outstanding pictures!

You have some outstanding firearms that you brought along today.

Looks like you took to the new Walther PPQ right away which is usually what is being reported by new owners. I really like mine and it was instantly one of my top favorite pistols along with my SIG P226 and P228.

The .300 and .338 Winchester magnum are some serious hard hitting long range rifles. What do you hunt with them?

I have not fired a single one of my rifles in about ten years now sad to say due to local rifle ranges closing because of antis. I heard that a new one opened up not too far away so I am excited that I will hopefully do some rifle shooting this spring. I have a Colt Match Target 6700 and a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade .243 itching to go for center fire and my Remington 541-T for .22 rimfire.

 

[HKGuns]

The .300 and .338 Winchester magnum are some serious hard hitting long range rifles. What do you hunt with them?

Thanks, yes the PPQ points and shoots just as naturally as my HK pistols. I must be partial to German firearms.

I haven't hunted anything with those two rifles yet. I purchased them from the Widow of one of my hunting partners, in his memory and so they would land somewhere where they would be well cared for. The 300 will likely be my Bear rifle and the .338 Elk or Moose. I use a .308 or 30-06 for deer and these two would be a bit over kill, although my departed partner used his .300 for deer hunting.

 

[Martowski]

I'm really enjoying my new PPQ as well:

http://martowski.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/walther-ppq-fantastic-plastic/

 

[Fishbed77]

HKguns,

You really have to stop putting that last round in the Walther mags backwards. That might be acceptable to the tacticool high-speed, low-drag HK mall ninja operators, but seriously... Walthers are WAY too classy for that.

By the way - those are all nice guns.

 

[rdsmith3]

Thanks for the reviews. Great pictures, BTW.

I just ordered a Walther PPQ. I can't wait to get it.

 

[GlockFan]

Wow..I didn't realize how similar those guns look!

 

[Fishbed77]

Wow..I didn't realize how similar those guns look!

There is a good reason for this. HK pretty much did a straight-copy of the ergonomics of the Walther P99 (pretty much same pistol as the PPQ, but with a different trigger group) when they designed the P30.

 

[HarcyPervin]

You really have to stop putting that last round in the Walther mags backwards. That might be acceptable to the tacticool high-speed, low-drag HK mall ninja operators, but seriously... Walthers are WAY too classy for that.

Out of curiousity, why do you do that in your pictures?

 

[Fishbed77]

Out of curiousity, why do you do that in your pictures?

It's a reference to a photo from an old H&K USP print ad. Apparently H&K's hard-core operators missed that the round was in backwards before the ad went to print.

 

[HKGuns]

Update: Upon cleaning the Walther PPQ last night I looked over the recoil spring and guide rod very carefully. The spring is all metal, of course, but the plastic guide rod is NOT something on which I would bet my life. It is extremely cheap and in part explains some of where they cut corners to meet the price point of this pistol.

I ordered an all metal BT guide rod from the site linked below. (The P99 rod will fit the PPQ according to the email support.) I urge anyone with this pistol to replace that guide rod and recoil spring with an all metal version from your vendor of choice. (This particular version was recommended over on the Walther forum and I have NO affiliation or experience with it as I just ordered.)

Click

 

[Fishbed77]

Upon cleaning the Walther PPQ last night I looked over the recoil spring and guide rod very carefully. The spring is all metal, of course, but the plastic guide rod is NOT something on which I would bet my life. It is extremely cheap and in part explains some of where they cut corners to meet the price point of this pistol.

It's the same guide rod P99s used back when they went for close to $900, so I doubt the "cost-cutting" explanation really flies. Tens of thousands of P99s have been issued to police forces across Europe with no documented failures of the guide rod. Walther no doubt used it as a weight-saving measure. AFAIK, the P99/PPQ is the lightest full-size 9mm you can buy.

It's been a topic of discussion at waltherforums.com, and the consensus is that you could replace it with the BT guiderod if you really want to, but there's no good reason to do so unless you just want to spend some money.

 

[HKGuns]

While you may be right Fish, I feel a lot better with all steel like in the P30.

 

[Fishbed77]

While you may be right Fish, I feel a lot better with all steel like in the P30.

Oh, I am right.

No problem with that - to each his own.

As to the reason for the PPQ's high level of quality for a such a low price, you have to keep in mind that it is, essentially, a rather old design with a few aesthetic revisions a new trigger group. The P99 has been around for over 15 years, has gathered quite a few police/military contracts in Europe, and Walther has likely long since recouped the costs of design and engineering.

 

[Chuck R.]

I agree with Fishbed77, this:

I urge anyone with this pistol to replace that guide rod and recoil spring with an all metal version from your vendor of choice.

Is pretty strongly worded for a part that hasn’t had an issue. I did a quick Google search for P99 and PPQ recoil spring and recoil spring guide issues and came up empty handed. It may be made of plastic (like a large portion of the pistol) but it doesn’t seem to be an issue.

More importantly, since you own the P30 and PPQ do you find a $200+ difference in their performance?

Chuck

 

[HKGuns]

Is pretty strongly worded for a part that hasn’t had an issue.

Oh, I don't think it is that strongly worded.

More importantly, since you own the P30 and PPQ do you find a $200+ difference in their performance?

HK gets the nod by default for that negligible price delta, just from my previous positive experiences. Most any pistol, including a $5,000 1911, should go bang when you pull the trigger and most are more accurate than the guy pulling the trigger.

 

[Chuck R.]

But again, do you know of, of have you heard of any issues with the PPQ plastic spring guide, that would cause you to "urge" owners to replace it?

Chuck

 

[HKGuns]

But again. Yes that is my recommendation. Wanna argue about it? Your google search is not data, you can bet some have, will or are going to fail.

The simple fact that there are at least TWO companies making replacements means there is a market.

 

[balance 740]

It's impossible to prove that something will not happen. It is impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove the guide rod in your PPQ will NOT break, because it is impossible for me to do so. If this was an issue large enough that you would advise all PPQ owners to replace their guide rods, I'd expect to see proof as to why.

If you believe that the polymer guide rod should be metal, then replace it, but before telling everyone else that they should replace their's, I believe you should have more than just a gut feeling.

That guide rod was suggested to you on the Walther forum because you asked for a metal guide rod.

The H&K USP uses polymer mag bodies, the Walther P99 uses metal mag bodies, both work. I think the polymer mags on USP pistols were a cost cutting measure.

 

[Chuck R.]

HKguns,

The “fact” that 2 companies are making metal guide rods “proves” there’s a need, or substantiates your “urging”?

That’s your evidence of a potential issue?

You’re kidding me right?

Far be it from me to argue with a guy that didn’t realize his spring guide was plastic till AFTER he shot his pistol.

Chuck

 

[HKGuns]

Far be it from me to argue with a guy that didn’t realize his spring guide was plastic till AFTER he shot his pistol.

Well Chuckie, there you go making assumptions again.

I knew it was plastic before I bought it and didn't care for that aspect when I bought it. In fact, I'm keeping the pistol after knowing it is plastic, so how do you fancy that?

I don't like having a plastic guide rod and I can like or dislike whatever I want, got it? Good. I can also recommend or urge anyone betting their life on this pistol to change it out. Got it? Good.

 

[Fishbed77]

I don't like having a plastic guide rod and I can like or dislike whatever I want, got it? Good. I can also recommend or urge anyone betting their life on this pistol to change it out. Got it? Good.

Is there actually any proof that the steel aftermarket guide rods are actually better than the standard Walther polymer rods?

The reason I asked is, while I can't find a single credible documented incident of a standard Walther guide rod breaking, it took all of about 2 seconds using Google to find this:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pps/18759-broken-b-t-premium-guide-rod.html

I'm not so sure I would want to "bet my life" on this. Not that I go around "betting my life" on anything.

I didn't want to get back into this dogfight, since it's been pretty well established that the standard Walther polymer guide rod is very reliable, and that how the OP wants to spend his money is his own business. Is a HK P30 $300 better than a Walther P99/PPQ. No. Is the BMW M3 I want $15000 better than the Civic my wife drives now? No.

But that doesn't mean I don't want one .

By the way, HKGuns, congratulations on both your PPQ and your P30 (and those nice A-bolts - my dad swears by those things). I urge you to head over to Waltherforums.com. There's a great bunch of classy guys there that can answer every question you'll ever have about your new gun.

 

[Chuck R.]

Hk,
It’s cool, I’m pretty sure that most folks know better than to heed the urgings of some “plastic recoil spring drama queen” without having any proof of an issue other than 2 companies marketing solutions to an imaginary or “ASSumed” problem.

After what Fishbed posted it looks like the only semi-documented issue with a Walther PPQ spring guide concerns the aftermarket model you bought. Feel like an AZZ now? Good.

Done here.

Chuck

 

[tdstout]

Wow, getting kind of hostile in here

 

[sigarms228]

Come on guys this is getting a bit carried away over a recoil rod. HKGuns is not trashing his new PPQ. I see it as a very postive review with the included targets. He has a strong opinion on the recoil guide rod and take it for what it is worth.

BTW here is a link on the Walther forum about a broken plastic recoil rod from a new Walther PPQ. It did NOT break during firing but the owner did break it examining it which IMO should not have happened. If it had been his only pistol for SD that would not have been a good thing. After seeing that I am ordering an extra one for myself for my PPQ to have around since Walther is so short on parts for the PPQ.

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/20195-ppq-recoil-assembly-dont-try-home.html