I've been looking for guns to carry with me in my car. I want to stick with either HK or Sig. What do you all think about the HK45c and the P220 compact? Which one is better? The HK is much lighter. I like the grip on both, but more of my hand fits on the HK. Any other models I should look at?I don't really know much about Glocks. Some love them some hate them. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm having a difficult time making a decision. :banghead:
HK45c vs Sig P220 compact
- Thread starter jrparrish
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zx12rider
Member
Good choices
Both are great guns but I favor the HK. I like the idea of a safety on a gun and like the look and feel of the HK's over the sigs. Either one will serve you well.
Both are great guns but I favor the HK. I like the idea of a safety on a gun and like the look and feel of the HK's over the sigs. Either one will serve you well.
riceboy72
Member
The H&K 45C favors the interchangeable backstrap which can help you get the gun fit to your hand the way you like it, whereas the Sig does not. Both are excellent guns and are considered to be very capable pistols if you do your part. They do vary in regards to weight and size, so I'd recommend you try both before you purchase one. If you are planning on carrying the pistol concealed, then figure that into the equation, too, based upon what you think you'd be more happy with after carrying for eight or more hours.
You don't mention what your level of experience is so I hesitate to recommend different makes and models, but every major manufacturer offers something in the .45 flavor. Figure out what your needs are, what your price range is, and what it is that you want to see in a pistol then do some reading to help you along. If you are able to get to a range that rents out guns, trying out the desired gun tends to help greatly in determining which one to get. I'd also recommend that you find a gun shop where you feel comfortable and can ask someone for assistance in helping explain what's what. It can be confusing if you're new to guns and certain places may not have your best interest at hand, but rather that of their register and wallet. If you know anyone who is knowledgeable with pistols, take them along when you go to look or buy.
You don't mention what your level of experience is so I hesitate to recommend different makes and models, but every major manufacturer offers something in the .45 flavor. Figure out what your needs are, what your price range is, and what it is that you want to see in a pistol then do some reading to help you along. If you are able to get to a range that rents out guns, trying out the desired gun tends to help greatly in determining which one to get. I'd also recommend that you find a gun shop where you feel comfortable and can ask someone for assistance in helping explain what's what. It can be confusing if you're new to guns and certain places may not have your best interest at hand, but rather that of their register and wallet. If you know anyone who is knowledgeable with pistols, take them along when you go to look or buy.
This will be my first handgun. I just got my concealed weapon permit in October. Needless to say, I do not have much experience with handguns at all. I've shot my dad's HK USP 9mm and my mom's Sig P250 9mm. That is about it! I've had many people tell me to get a .45 over a 9mm. I like the reliability that comes with buying a Sig or HK.
I've gone to a gun store, but unfortunately, they do not rent the guns out. I held about a dozen or so and that is how I limited it to the HK45c and the Sig P220 compact. The guy at the gun shop told me both are great guns.
Any suggestions or recommendations you have would definitely be helpful!
I've gone to a gun store, but unfortunately, they do not rent the guns out. I held about a dozen or so and that is how I limited it to the HK45c and the Sig P220 compact. The guy at the gun shop told me both are great guns.
Any suggestions or recommendations you have would definitely be helpful!
IMTHDUKE
Member
You wont go wrong with either HK or Sig...
I would go with HK...I am fighting the urge now to get a HK 45c....I am trying to justify it, as though a gun guy has to justify getting another gun. I already have 2 3" barrel 45s...but that HK is sweet...the reduced recoil system is a plus.
Here is another HK you might consider if you wanna drop down from 45cal....I carry this one....
You will pay more, of course, for HK...but if you decide to change to another gun after awhile....it's goin hold value better than some.
I would go with HK...I am fighting the urge now to get a HK 45c....I am trying to justify it, as though a gun guy has to justify getting another gun. I already have 2 3" barrel 45s...but that HK is sweet...the reduced recoil system is a plus.
Here is another HK you might consider if you wanna drop down from 45cal....I carry this one....
You will pay more, of course, for HK...but if you decide to change to another gun after awhile....it's goin hold value better than some.
MgoBlue
Member
For a first gun, you couldn't make a mistake with either selection. They will both last forever. The Sig might shoot a slightly tighter group, but the HK is also a tack driver. The Sig is a tad heavier. This would help with the recoil . . . though with a little practice, the HK 45 compact is wonderful too. The HK you can carry "cocked and locked" if you want, or you can carry it chambered and decocked. You also might want to look around for a HK USP 45 compact. In many ways, I like the feel of it better than either the Sig or the HK45 compact. Finally, you might consider a Sig 245. These are discontinued, but still available all around the country. They are might nice!
Reg
Reg
That is one thing I was wondering; if there was going to be a difference in the recoil. I noticed the HK45c is much MUCH lighter, therefore I wondered if this would make a difference in the recoil because the Sig is heavier. However, someone mentioned that the HK45c has a reduced recoil system.
I do like the USP but the gun store didn't have one. The guy told me the HK45c is the new and improved USP supposedly. But it seems that the consensus is that the H&K is the gun to go with. Thank you your feedback. Any advice I can get is appreciated.
I do like the USP but the gun store didn't have one. The guy told me the HK45c is the new and improved USP supposedly. But it seems that the consensus is that the H&K is the gun to go with. Thank you your feedback. Any advice I can get is appreciated.
riceboy72
Member
I'm a fan of both the Sig Sauer and the Heckler & Koch line. I learned to shoot with a Sig P226 so I've always had a place in my heart for the P series, and greatly admire the older Sig Sauer quality and reliability we have come to know and love. I do admit I'm not a fan of the newer Sig products and I've read here and there about Sig quality eroding over the years, but I've not bought a brand new Sig to experience it firsthand.
I finally bought my first Heckler & Koch this year - a P2000 - and I immediately fell in love with that gun. It felt good in my hand, was easy to shoot, and knocked the center of the target out once I got used to the ergonomics and the trigger/trigger reset. It has, for the most part, been opined that H&K quality has always been high, and I tend to agree. H&K, before their massive introduction into the American market with their USP line back in the 90's, was kind of the revered brand that most of us, including me, couldn't afford. If it wasn't for the influx of P7's into the country, I'd probably never have bought one. The only thing I don't like about my P2000 is the sloppy magazine fit when it's in the mag well. I think it moves too much and I can hear it rattling when I walk. It's enough to unnerve me where I have stopped carrying it for now, but that's probably my OCD side kicking in. As for the H&K 45C, it immediately caught my attention when they were released, and I still intend to get one ... but that magazine issue is something that bugs me. When you pay good money for an H&K product, I expect the magazine not to rattle when it's in the gun.
When it comes down to it, you really can't lose either way. It comes down to what you want and what you expect out of your pistol. Both my P220 and P2000 have been utterly reliable, and I trust both to perform in my most dire time. The Sig has a nice DA/SA trigger that doesn't feel mushy to me, but I also have the LEM trigger in my P2000 so I can't say much about the DA/SA variant H&K offers. The finish on the 45C will probably be more durable than that of the Sig, and you can change the backstraps to fit your hand accordingly with the 45C. I'm not a fan of the short grip the P220 Compact. Just doesn't feel right to me. I also think of the 45C as the 'do all' gun - especially in the woods or in inclement weather. Of course, I think I could take my P220 out in the woods or on a rough and tumble camping trip and it'd do fine, but the ruggedness and 'to hell and back' reliability of the 45C makes me believe it'd be the better performer in the muck and mire.
I favor both the Sig and Heckler & Koch, but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd have to give the nod to the H&K 45C.
I finally bought my first Heckler & Koch this year - a P2000 - and I immediately fell in love with that gun. It felt good in my hand, was easy to shoot, and knocked the center of the target out once I got used to the ergonomics and the trigger/trigger reset. It has, for the most part, been opined that H&K quality has always been high, and I tend to agree. H&K, before their massive introduction into the American market with their USP line back in the 90's, was kind of the revered brand that most of us, including me, couldn't afford. If it wasn't for the influx of P7's into the country, I'd probably never have bought one. The only thing I don't like about my P2000 is the sloppy magazine fit when it's in the mag well. I think it moves too much and I can hear it rattling when I walk. It's enough to unnerve me where I have stopped carrying it for now, but that's probably my OCD side kicking in. As for the H&K 45C, it immediately caught my attention when they were released, and I still intend to get one ... but that magazine issue is something that bugs me. When you pay good money for an H&K product, I expect the magazine not to rattle when it's in the gun.
When it comes down to it, you really can't lose either way. It comes down to what you want and what you expect out of your pistol. Both my P220 and P2000 have been utterly reliable, and I trust both to perform in my most dire time. The Sig has a nice DA/SA trigger that doesn't feel mushy to me, but I also have the LEM trigger in my P2000 so I can't say much about the DA/SA variant H&K offers. The finish on the 45C will probably be more durable than that of the Sig, and you can change the backstraps to fit your hand accordingly with the 45C. I'm not a fan of the short grip the P220 Compact. Just doesn't feel right to me. I also think of the 45C as the 'do all' gun - especially in the woods or in inclement weather. Of course, I think I could take my P220 out in the woods or on a rough and tumble camping trip and it'd do fine, but the ruggedness and 'to hell and back' reliability of the 45C makes me believe it'd be the better performer in the muck and mire.
I favor both the Sig and Heckler & Koch, but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd have to give the nod to the H&K 45C.
rodgers330
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2003
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You stated, "I've been looking for guns to carry with me in my car". Does this mean you intend to keep the gun in your car and not use for carry purposes? If so, a Glock is the quintessential "car gun" in my opinion. I strongly prefer SIGs and HKs for other purposes but it's hard to beat Glock's simplicity as a "car gun".
Of course, it's not always wise to leave a gun in an unattended car...even if it's locked in the glove box.
Of course, it's not always wise to leave a gun in an unattended car...even if it's locked in the glove box.
You might look at the Kahr PM45 http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_45acp.html This is one pistol I don't have, so I can't comment on it personally, but it is reviewed highly in most military and law enforcement publications. This will be my next buy, whenever I get around to it. I was buying a rifle the other day and the salesman also had the full sized HK 45 and I held it and couldn't put it down, I bought it based on the good fit for my hand alone and I wasn't even in the market for another pistol. I haven't shot it yet, but I did notice that on mine with the decocker/safety, if you carry it cocked/locked and try to click the safety down before you fire it you may also decock the hammer if you push it too far. something to be aware of if you like carrying it in the 1911 conditions.
Riceboy72 said: "I'm not a fan of the short grip the P220 Compact. Just doesn't feel right to me."
---I thought the same thing! My little finger was basically just hanging there. I was concerned how this would affect me shooting the gun.
Rodgers330:
---I am going to be carrying it in my car when in it, but it is going to be my "home defense" weapon too. Additionally, I will probably be carrying it on my person on certain occasions.
nzo012:
I do remember seeing a .45 Kahr at the gun store. I am going again soon and I will definitely pick it up and see how it feels. They had many Glocks as well, so I will check that out too. How did you like the HK45? And I know this is a stupid question, but I don't understand the "decocker" function...All I've heard is how dumb people have shot themselves by recklessly using it.
---I thought the same thing! My little finger was basically just hanging there. I was concerned how this would affect me shooting the gun.
Rodgers330:
---I am going to be carrying it in my car when in it, but it is going to be my "home defense" weapon too. Additionally, I will probably be carrying it on my person on certain occasions.
nzo012:
I do remember seeing a .45 Kahr at the gun store. I am going again soon and I will definitely pick it up and see how it feels. They had many Glocks as well, so I will check that out too. How did you like the HK45? And I know this is a stupid question, but I don't understand the "decocker" function...All I've heard is how dumb people have shot themselves by recklessly using it.
Kahr has been getting glowing reviews and I know one person who has the PM45. It is a nice size for a compact gun. I have never fired one yet so, I can't really comment on that. I really have very few pistols I could call a compact, so the Kahr will be my next.
The HK45, well I had no plan to buy that gun, but I couldn't walk away from it. If I took my hand to HK and said make a gun around this, that would be what I'd get. I haven't shot it yet, but you can tell the difference between HK and the S&W M&P and Glock instantly. In this case you can really tell the difference from a $500 gun vs a $900.
The decocker is what allows the hammer to fall or lower to an un-cocked position without risking firing the gun. Think of the single action cowboy pistol, when the hammer is cocked you have to hold the hammer with your thumb and then pull the trigger while you slowly lower the hammer to keep it from firing. Now think that you have that same cowboy gun with a lever on the side that will block the firing pin and lower the hammer when you press it. This is only on a hammer fired gun; a striker fired gun like a Glock doesn't have a hammer, so it will reset the internal pin to fire the gun each time the slide is cycled. I learned to shoot before Glock was invented, so I perfected my technique with a hammered gun. I personally prefer a hammer action with a Decocker/safety, in part because that is what I am most familiar with. I like to have the ability to decock the hammer and have either a short trigger pull or a long one that has to raise the hammer from a fully down position. If you just fired the gun and want to re-holster it, the hammer would normally be cocked back automatically by the gun, you would not normally holster a loaded cocked weapon, so you would hit the decocker and the hammer would seat to a lowered position. Same situation when you load the gun, the hammer would have to be lowered to be safe, thus the decocker. Tactically if you are in a situation where you are moving and firing there may be times you want a more deliberate trigger pull instead of a short easier pull, then you can decock for that option. Some people love that click, click ,click trigger of a Glock, but I must be an old Fuddy Duddy, I like the long thorough pull like a revolver. Clear as Black powder?
What I was saying about the HK was mine has a lever that is push up for safety and push down for decock. If you push the safety past the center line you are getting into the decock function, so you have to not push the safety too hard if you are trying to keep the hammer cocked.
If you have further questions just ask.
The HK45, well I had no plan to buy that gun, but I couldn't walk away from it. If I took my hand to HK and said make a gun around this, that would be what I'd get. I haven't shot it yet, but you can tell the difference between HK and the S&W M&P and Glock instantly. In this case you can really tell the difference from a $500 gun vs a $900.
The decocker is what allows the hammer to fall or lower to an un-cocked position without risking firing the gun. Think of the single action cowboy pistol, when the hammer is cocked you have to hold the hammer with your thumb and then pull the trigger while you slowly lower the hammer to keep it from firing. Now think that you have that same cowboy gun with a lever on the side that will block the firing pin and lower the hammer when you press it. This is only on a hammer fired gun; a striker fired gun like a Glock doesn't have a hammer, so it will reset the internal pin to fire the gun each time the slide is cycled. I learned to shoot before Glock was invented, so I perfected my technique with a hammered gun. I personally prefer a hammer action with a Decocker/safety, in part because that is what I am most familiar with. I like to have the ability to decock the hammer and have either a short trigger pull or a long one that has to raise the hammer from a fully down position. If you just fired the gun and want to re-holster it, the hammer would normally be cocked back automatically by the gun, you would not normally holster a loaded cocked weapon, so you would hit the decocker and the hammer would seat to a lowered position. Same situation when you load the gun, the hammer would have to be lowered to be safe, thus the decocker. Tactically if you are in a situation where you are moving and firing there may be times you want a more deliberate trigger pull instead of a short easier pull, then you can decock for that option. Some people love that click, click ,click trigger of a Glock, but I must be an old Fuddy Duddy, I like the long thorough pull like a revolver. Clear as Black powder?
What I was saying about the HK was mine has a lever that is push up for safety and push down for decock. If you push the safety past the center line you are getting into the decock function, so you have to not push the safety too hard if you are trying to keep the hammer cocked.
If you have further questions just ask.
benzuncle
Member
jrparrish, all good advice in front of me. Sig and HK have huge followings with good reason. I was able to hold the HK, the P220 Compact and the P245 in my hand to make my decision. (Oh, that every gun shop in the country would let us fire any firearm we were interested in!) I walked away with the Compact because it fit my hand perfectly and I really liked the beavertail. The short curve on the mag that extends below the grip was just right for me; I shoot it more often than not one-handed. (I'm not a large believer that in real life your "target" will stand still for you while you Weaver up.) A friend that has a huge pile of guns gave me good advice when he said, "If the gun doesn't feel right, put it down and walk away. Don't try to sell yourself on it. There are a ton of other guns out there; one'll be just right for you."That advice has paid off for me.
The other items that appealed to me were the SIGLITE Night Sights and no rail. The P220 Compact has an almost non-existent list of mods. So if you are interested in tricking it out you will be disappointed. I love mine just the way it is; it is a flawless shooter that makes its owner look like a marksman! Good luck to you; you cannot lose. Let us know what gets its hooks into you. Happy Thanksgiving!
The other items that appealed to me were the SIGLITE Night Sights and no rail. The P220 Compact has an almost non-existent list of mods. So if you are interested in tricking it out you will be disappointed. I love mine just the way it is; it is a flawless shooter that makes its owner look like a marksman! Good luck to you; you cannot lose. Let us know what gets its hooks into you. Happy Thanksgiving!
nzo012: Thanks for the explaination of the decocking function! I don't feel quite as ignorant now!
benzuncle: I definitely agree with that advice! That is what makes the decision hard. They both feel GREAT!!
I am going to the gun store on Wednesday. From all the advice and opinions on here, and from my own opinion, I think I am going to go with the HK45c. I plan on holding them both again, but I really like how light-weight the HK is compared to the Sig. Like everyone has said, I don't feel like I could go wrong with either gun. Thank you all for your input and helping me choose my gun!!!!
benzuncle: I definitely agree with that advice! That is what makes the decision hard. They both feel GREAT!!
I am going to the gun store on Wednesday. From all the advice and opinions on here, and from my own opinion, I think I am going to go with the HK45c. I plan on holding them both again, but I really like how light-weight the HK is compared to the Sig. Like everyone has said, I don't feel like I could go wrong with either gun. Thank you all for your input and helping me choose my gun!!!!
I have a P220 and an H.K. P2000 (but in .40 S.W. not .45 A.C.P. obviously), and both are great. The H.K. will be five or six ounces lighter, but the P220 has definitely been my favorite so far, very accurate, 100% reliable, and Sig ergonomics are unmatched I.M.O. If I were buying one today, I would get the P220 Carry S.A.S. gen II. I wanted one of the first S.A.S. Sigs, for the carry melt treatment and lack of rails, except they were D.A.K., "dot-the-i" type sights with tritium front only, and "three tone". All that has been fixed now- traditional D.A./S.A., Sig-Lites front and back, all black Nitron & polymer grip panels. It will likely be my 2nd P220:
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I like my HK45c more than any handgun I have bought in quite awhile. I fits my hand nicely. I have small hands. If yours are larger, it comes with a larger backstrap to switch to. The weight makes a difference in carrying for me. However, the recoil is very managible. The HK recoil system really does work. There has been nothing but positive reviews on the HK45c on most of the gun forums. Here is some eye candy to help you decide. HK45c and a Busse meaner street from the custom shop. They work well together, IMHO.
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