Hodgdon buying Ramshot, Accurate and Blackhorn

[LiveLife]

Economics be damned. This is not good news logistically. When multiple products/brands are owned by a parent organization then a few things happen, and while some of it is for good reason, risk almost always increases.

This hasn't been the case with Hodgdon buying IMR.

Hodgdon recently updated IMR line by releasing cleaner burning more eco friendly REACH compliant Target, Red, Green, Unequal and Blue - https://www.ammoland.com/2016/11/imr-legendary-powders-releases-new-imr-family-of-powders/

I bought IMR Target, Red and Green and so far tested Target and Red and while Red was OK, Target is continuing to produce very accurate loads that are surpassing my reference loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10490012

 

[fotheringill]

I like free enterprise. When one guy has more or a bit less of the supply chain, prices go up at will.

 

[Jack B.]

Not sure I like this either. I use and like some of the Ramshot and Accrate brand powders but they are hard to come by , same with Vitavuori powders. I like them but can hardly find them.

 

[Otto]

This is definitely NOT good news for reloaders. Competition within the industry gives all of us better powders and lower prices.

I hear what you're saying but can't completely agree.
Example: Hodgdon already owns the most popular pistol powder (Titegroup)..
20 years ago, Titegroup was selling for $11 a pound at Powder Valley. Today it's $18.50. That's not a huge increase if you factor in inflation, increased production costs and multiple panic driven shortages. So I don't see, Hodgdon exploiting their dominance in the powder market. By the way, small pistol primers where selling for $13.50 1k twenty years ago as well.

 

[hardheart]

About an 11.8% price increase after adjusting for inflation, Aug '00 to Aug '20. If PV is also holding the same margins. Would really need to know their cost to get a better sense of it.

 

[AJC1]

My big question is it American owned or did we just transfer control of more supply to a foreign government

 

[kcofohio]

My big question is it American owned or did we just transfer control of more supply to a foreign government

As far as I can find, Hodgdon is still a family owned business.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Hodgdon has always catered to the reloaders needs and WANTS. If they didn't they wouldn't sell Winchester 321 and Hodgdon Hp38, or Winchester 296 and Hogdgon H110.
Even though these are respectively the same powders in different containers.

They watch us reloaders for what we want and do what they have too to keep us happy. I use Ram Shot, Accurate, Winchester, Hodgdon and the competition Alliant.
The fact that WST, and WSF and other Winchester powders, are still available to buy, to me is a testament to Hodgdon's dedication to reloaders.
I wonder if they will try to rebrand the Ramshot, and Accurate powders or just keep them under their own name.
It didn't work real well when they tried to rebrand Winchester powder or their wouldn't be any now.
Edit to add.
I think as long as the company remains in the Hodgdon family we won't see any powders go away, unless they are dogs.

 

[kmw1954]

Hopefully load data for those new powder brands will get added to Hodgdon's awesome online reloading database. I use mostly Hodgdon powders simply because of that database of information and its ease of use.

I don't find the Western data website any more difficult to use and as it is in a pdf format I can print the whole thing and keep it on my bench, which I actually already do. No running to the computer and entering load data to get a few loads.

 

[Dudedog]

Hopefully none will go away,
they did axe, SR7625, SR4756, and I think PB?and SR4759 a while back.
I liked SR7625.....
I would miss TAC for sure, some others not so much, but if worst comes to worst there are things I could use instead of TAC. (assuming I have primers left)
When there are no shortages we have a nice variety of things to pick from.
It would be interesting to see some sales numbers of powders to see which ones sell the most.

 

[Dudedog]

No running to the computer and entering load data to get a few loads

I like having the data handy so I found with Hodgdon
don't select a bullet or powder which gives you everything
get the data, and hit the + to expand it all.
Swipe the data and copy it.
(I have an old version of excell and it does not want to seem to paste right into that version of excell) so
I pasted it into notepad and saved it as a .txt file.
Then I used excell to open the file, tell excell it is delimited and ta da things are in nice columns. (need to fix left/right alignment on powder name as text gets done one way and numbers another, and a couple column heads didn't come out right but easy to fix)
Then you can save/print it for offline use.

Much easier to download Westerns .pdf but you can grab the Hodgdon data for printing or off line use if you want to, just have to jump thru a few hoops. (small jumps, big hoops)

 

[Skgreen]

As far as I can find, Hodgdon is still a family owned business.

Seems like 'publicly traded companies' have more of a tendency to make profit their one (and eventually only) goal than privately owned businesses.

 

[kmw1954]

Procedure to get load data.

Hodgdon; select cartridge, select bullet weight, select powder. Update data.
45acp, 200gr., HP-38, receive data for 2 loads.

Western; open pfd or printed copy. Scroll to Cartridge, 45acp. Scroll to powder, AA#2, have at hand every load for AA#2 from 140gr SF to a 250gr plated RAINER for a total of 27 loads all at one place directly in front of me. That 45acp 200gr load I was looking for has data on 6 different bullets from cast to plated to jacketed.

Also I was looking for information/data for a 223Rem using A 55gr bullet and Ramshot TAC or Hodgdon BL-C2. Hodgdon again delivered 3 loads with none of the bullets I wanted to use.

Western delivered loads for that powder with 10 different bullets. Once again didn't exactly have the bullet I wanted but had 3 different Hornady bullets to choose from.

Lastly I emailed both Western and Hodgdon for data on the bullet I wanted to use. I had an answer from Western in two days. I still have not received a response from Hodgdon. That was 6 weeks ago.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

The latest discontinued powder from under the overall Hodgdon umbrella was H414 but they continue to slap Winchester 760 labels on containers of that powder, plus coming up with new powders under all 3 names such as the IMR Enduron series with IMR 8133 most recently, Winchester StaBALL 6.5, ascwell as the Hodgdon Extreme powders shows they see value in all 3 brands / lines. If they didn't see value in Western's offerings they wouldn't have purchased Western but some will have more value than others as with anything. They've kept numerous IMR powders available that have the same product numbers as some Hodgdon powders in the Hodgdon Extreme line showing they still see market value in those IMR lines, for now anyway.

 

[AJC1]

Hopefully none will go away,
they did axe, SR7625, SR4756, and I think PB?and SR4759 a while back.
I liked SR7625.....
I would miss TAC for sure, some others not so much, but if worst comes to worst there are things I could use instead of TAC. (assuming I have primers left)
When there are no shortages we have a nice variety of things to pick from.
It would be interesting to see some sales numbers of powders to see which ones sell the most.

Curious if 2520 is exactly the same or so close you would notice the difference.

 

[Random 8]

I wish they would acquire a source for and market primers (Sellior and Bellot, RUAG, IMI or PRVI?). They seem to have a talent for meeting market demands.

 

[Dudedog]

Hodgdon; select cartridge, select bullet weight, select powder. Update data.
45acp, 200gr., HP-38, receive data for 2 loads.

Western; open pfd or printed copy. Scroll to Cartridge, 45acp. Scroll to powder, AA#2, have at hand every load for AA#2 from 140gr SF to a 250gr plated RAINER for a total of 27 loads all at one place directly in front of me.

If you going to to be fair you need to search all bullet weights on Hodgdon as well.
Western lists 5 different 200gr bullets Hodgdon only 2,
12 loads total for HP38 on Hodgdon, 27 for AA#2
Westerns get the win in both cases but the score is not 2 to 27....

Not saying Hodgdon is better..
Who knows maybe the Western guys will convince Hodgdon to make a .pdf for us.

I haven't emailed Hodgdon on anything but I did get a quick response from Western when I asked about AA#2 in .32 SW Long for a friend a couple years back.

 

[BBarn]

Though I use more of the powders currently marketed by Hodgdon Powder Company, I have been more impressed with Western Powder's publications, load data, website, and responsiveness. I hope this acquisition works to better Hogdgon's performance in those areas. At least this transfer of product marketing does not reduce the number of actual smokeless powder manufacturers.

 

[markr6754]

I much prefer having Western’s reloading pdf booklet, but I think you’re all pulling the wrong data for Hodgdon. There are two Hodgdon sources, Hodgdonreloading and Hodgdon.

This is a screenshot of the 4 page pdf for 700-X 9mm. Every other cartridge can be downloaded in the same manner, for every powder they offer. When I want load data for a powder, I work through all the calibers I’m likely to use, and save the PDFs to my cloud storage. Bam! Easy access to any device I’m using.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I'm new to this, but I purchased a copy of the 2020 Hodgdon Reloading Manual which includes hardcopy load data in a similar layout as other reloading manuals I've purchased. It opened up my eyes to loads I hadn't seen using the kinda hunt & peck method at the online Hodgdon Reloading Data Center. I don't plan on purchasing a new copy every year, much like other brands of reloading manuals I've purchased.