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Hollow points or Ball?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by MrIzhevsk, Dec 15, 2008.

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  1. MrIzhevsk

    MrIzhevsk Member

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    Which is better for carry purposes in a 1911? Would you prefer to have an 8 round magazine full of Hydrashock or standard ball ammunition? The reason I ask is because I have read that hollow points don't always feed as well as a FMJ ball .45 acp round.

    anybody?


    Thanks,
    Stuart
     
  2. ConstantineJ9

    ConstantineJ9 Member

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    Well, I dont know if this helps but I keep 230 grain FMJ rounds in my Hi Point JHP45. I dont know if it's true but I have heard 230 45acp rarely over penetrates and that's with FMJ ammo. And, it will feed better in just about anything.
     
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    How do those HPs perform with the gun in question? The answer to that matters a whole lot more than the opining of a gun rag/interweb forum author.

    For me, if the HP's don't feed, I'd try to ID the problem and remedy it or get rid of the gun and find something more reliable with modern JHP ammunition.
     
  4. ConstantineJ9

    ConstantineJ9 Member

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    +1 psyopspec
     
  5. david_the_greek

    david_the_greek Member

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    obviously in a lower caliber hollow points are vital. Are the that important in the 45? Well, thats a good question. I'm going to say its ok to use FMJ if you can't afford (or don't want) to use hollow points. How do I come to this conclusion.... EVERY FRUITING 9MM VS 45 DEBATE! Gosh darn it, every time this happens someone brings up how the 1911 served through X number wars and is a 'one shot stopper'. lol. Well, ok my references might not be the greatest, but it is a heavy bullet and it'll do some damage. Hollow points probably aren't a bad thing, I just can barely afford FMJ's!
     
  6. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    .45 ACP FMJ has okay stopping power, but it's less than that of 9mm hollowpoints. That said, some testing should be done of the hollowpoints, to make sure they get at least 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. Try and find some tests done from the barrel length of the pistol ou will carry. As an FBI agent put it "too little penetration will get you killed".
     
  7. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    If your gun won't feed hollowpoints, get that fixed or switch guns.

    Overpenetration is real, and even if you're no-billed for a through and through that hits an innocent, you're GOING to get sued, and LOSE.
     
  8. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    JHP no contest. Find some that reliably feed the round you plan on using, make sure you have a good recoil spring, and use good magazines. There are lots of options available, you probably want one with a ball ammo profile. Speer Gold Dot 230 grain is a good choice.

    Spend a little money and run quite a few through it. Some will say "1000 rounds of your carry ammo!" I wish I had those budgets. I have put a couple hundred (of what I carried) through mine before I carried it; there were no malfunctions.

    Testing other ammo, the Hornady +P stuff which has a conical bullet opposed to the ball profile. Some rounds would catch on the feed ramp (not the gap, the hollow point would catch in the middle of the ramp itself). As soon as I used ball profile round, no issues what so ever.
     
  9. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I believe Clint Smith advises the use of FMJ ammo for maximum reliability. The idea is that even if your gun feeds JHPs reliably, if it fails one time in a million due to hollowpoints, it will probably do so when you need it most. Murphy's law.

    Shot placement is more important than hollowpoints.
     
  10. LIQUID SNAKE

    LIQUID SNAKE member

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    It's to your preference. I switched to a .40 G22 from my old Springfield Armour 1911A1 Three or four years or so ago. However now like then I switch between ball and hollow points freely. I used to carry with 230gr Hydra shock both on duty and off. and eventually began to alternate. I personally could not care less about over penetration since I focus on being aware of my environment like the backstops that are or are not present. FMJ is better in a single stack 1911 because of reliability. FMJ don't have much difference than the overpriced HP ammo in that they both slap home hard and drop living things dead like the plague. Especially 45acp and 40sw. I say slap because that is what it looks and sounds like when the round hits home on someone. "SLAP". 40sw FMJ blows just as big a chunk from the entrance wound as the exit. Hollow points of any make are far more lethal than FMJ and make far more vicious wounds. I carry FMJ because I want maximum penetration. I am willing to trade off energy dispersal and wound coefficient for max penetration. Some people are not, especially if your job mandates the use of hollow points.
     
  11. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    You will once the prosecutor gets ahold of that statement. ;)
     
  12. The Foo

    The Foo Member

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    If your firearm doesn't feed it, then find a new one that will. Most modern JHP ammunition is made differently today than before, so feed issues are almost irrelevant.
     
  13. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    In .25acp it doesn't matter. Use ball ammo.
    In .45acp it doesn't matter. Use ball ammo.
    In 9mm and .38 it matters very much. Use hollow point.

    As for the "one in a million" bulloney. One in a million can apply to every aspect of the gun.
     
  14. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    1. So then you would let somebody shoot you rather than take an immediately needed shot where you weren't sure of your backstop?

    2. How do you CHOOSE a "backstop"? Is it construction? How about distance? How much distance is permissible between your assailant and the "backstop"? Will you only shoot somebody who's trying to murder you if they're standing 6" in front of a 5'x5' plate of cold rolled homogenous armor? Or will you shoot somebody who's far enough from the "backstop" that somebody could walk between it and your attacker? What happens if somebody randomly walks between your assailant and the "backstop"? How do you plan to correlate all of these factors AND shoot your assailant in enough time to prevent yourself from being maimed or killed by him?

    Call me lazy or eccentric, but I find buying a box of 200gr. Hornady TAP JHP a lot simpler to manage.
     
  15. Fenris

    Fenris Member

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    Didn't one of those FBI studies conclude that since the vast majority of rounds fired in gun fights are complete misses, it makes little sense to be excessively concerned about those few bullets that actually hit and may over penetrate. Also that exit hole through skin significantly slows down bullet.

    I am not stating these as my opinions. I have not come to any conclusion. I have three small children at home so I am concerned about them being hit by any round, stray or over-penetrated, my round or the BG's.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  16. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    The theory is "big sky, little bullet." Most gunfights occur when few people are around anyway.
    I think the overpenetration issue has been blown out of proportion.
     
  17. LIQUID SNAKE

    LIQUID SNAKE member

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    I knew a couple people would respond to the backdrop thing. If I am threatened I will take the shot period. Also 'backdrop' does not only apply to solid objects. It could apply to their being absolutely nothing behind the enemy at all. No enemy's no not enemy's, just landscape. It is a abstract concept Take it as you will. I just meant to be aware of your surroundings.
     
  18. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Of the three 1911 style handguns (Colt, Kimber and Firestar) that I have. None have a problem with Hornady HP/XTP ammunition. And if they did have a problem with hollow points I would either repair or have them repaired...
     
  19. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    Well, I "stockpile" FMJ's for SHTF type of event. I have a few boxes of JHP and premium HP's for SD.

    HP's can fail to expand and over pentrate as well. As callous as this is, if I were involved in a shooting and had a through and through that then killed an innocent, I would argue that it was an act of God. I mean, a lot of stars have to align to make that possible.

    Shoot what your guns feed best. The Army uses FMJ's and cops use HP's, either way your lawyer should be able to make a defense out of that SUPPOSING that is that you actually have that happen. I would be more concerned about not missing the target than I would be about having a round fired that went through the perp and killed someone else.
     
  20. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    My gun fires everything else fine. Using SA, Tripp, Wilson ETM mags the lower tip of the Hornady catches on the ramp before it gets to the gap. You could tap the slide and it would go into battery. I imagine a good recoil spring could/wood fix the problem, but it only happens with that ammo.
     
  21. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I believe that the term you used was "backSTOP", NOT "backdrop". They mean different things.

    As commonly understood, a "backdrop" is merely something in the background, as in a "backdrop" on a theater stage. This could be anything from a blanket on a clothesline to the clothesline by itself, to a crowd of bystanders.

    A "backSTOP" on the other hand, is commonly understood to be something which STOPS or redirects a projectile, as in an inclined metal plate, a metal "snail shell" bullet trap, an earthen bank, or captive tire crumb into which bullets are fired, safely containing the projectile and any fragments thereof.

    If I miss my intended target, it doesn't matter what kind of projectile I use. On the other hand, if I hit my intended target and it passes completely through that target, that makes a BIG difference. I cannot GUARANTEE that the .45 200gr. Hornady TAP JHPs, 9mm 147gr. Winchester White Box JHPs or .38 158gr. Federal LSWC-HPs that I carry in my handguns won't pass completely through an assailant and hit an innocent. It is beyond reason to deny that they LESSEN that possibility measureably.

    As hard a I try, I can't think of a SINGLE plausible negative factor of using proper expanding self-defense ammunition that can even come close to outweighing the benefit of keeping my bullet(s) inside of an assailant.
     
  22. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    for carry, every last one of my 13 rounds are hollow points. of course i have shot my pistol enough to KNOW that they feed just as well as ball ammo. hp's in general tranfer more energy to whatever you are shooting. and hopefully, that will equate into faster stops. i figure it this way, if it is what the cops are using, it is what i am using.
     
  23. tblt

    tblt member

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    hallow point and FMJ mix
     
  24. ConstantineJ9

    ConstantineJ9 Member

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  25. jjohnson

    jjohnson Member

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    Hollowpoints.

    Well, I used to think just ball ammo to be sure they'd feed. Hollowpoints have come a long way since then.

    I don't feel undergunned with ball ammo in a .45. There are plenty of merits to hollow point ammo, but if you're okay with shooting enough hollow point ammo at the range to make sure it'll be reliable as CCW, good for you.

    If you want to hedge your bet, load ONE hollowpoint in the chamber and carry cocked and locked over some ball ammo.

    Me - I have been shooting Silvertip Winchester for over 20 years now, and haven't ever had a failure with it, so I carry it. I also shoot it often enough to make sure my 'carry load' is fresh. Stick with whatever makes you feel safe.
     
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