Hollow points or Ball?

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Hydrashok.

As others have said: If the gun won't feed hollowpoints get rid of it for a gun that will.
 
I carry 230grn hardball in my Ruger P90 although I have boxes of Federal 180grn softnose,Remington Golden Sabres and many more "modern" wonder bullets in my safe(too lazy to go upstairs to see what all is in there). My life,My gun,my choice.
 
Hollow points or Ball?
Which is better for carry purposes in a 1911? Would you prefer to have an 8 round magazine full of Hydrashock or standard ball ammunition? The reason I ask is because I have read that hollow points don't always feed as well as a FMJ ball .45 acp round.

anybody?


Thanks,
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,

Save your money on additional gun "rags" and put it into ammo! Break in "Ol' Slabsides" well with that money and learn which loads shoot best (point of aim and accuracy) in your particular specimen.

After around 500 flawless rounds, you'll know your ol' brass chucker will feed the rounds you like perfectly. Then . . . avoid buying more gun rags and buy some cleaning equipment to keep your bottom feeder ever-clean and well functioning. It's gotta be about to literally shuck corn cobs even, . . . every time!

That being said, I carry Federal HydraShock or Remington Golden Sabre (both 230 grain variety) in my .45 1911. Dead on . . . dead accurate . . . and totally dependable.

Also, most folks benefit from investing in some great instruction from experienced handgunners who also know who to teach the technique!!!

T.

PS: After you are comfortable, "invest" in yourself yet again, by signing up for competitions! You'll probably use FMJ loads to save money in the "gun games" however . . . for lots of rounds go downrange! You'll also get into handloading your own stuff . . . another great benefit once the gun grabbers start going after ammunition even more! You can shoot a whole lot more when you are reloading, since it is sooooo much cheaper.

Shooting in competition will brutally expose all your flaws to yourself . . . and that's the next step in becoming a great handgunner! Along the way you'll learn how to recognize instantly jams, including stovepipes and learn to clear your weapon under stress and still shoot good times in the matches.

This may all save your life one day.
 
I've owned 2 1911s and neither would feed any hollowpoints reliably even after work. So, I now have a 100 percent reliable with anything Ruger KP90DC and no 1911s. My choice. I'd never carry ball, too much penetration and not enough tissue disruption compared to an expanding bullet. I don't hunt with FMJ, either, even though overpenetration is a concern. A non-expanding bullet has caused a few blood trailing episodes for me. If it expands, the deer usually doesn't go very far. Expansion is a good thing and if that hollowpoint fails, well, it's no worse than a ball round. Main thing, it needs to function 100 percent and 1911s on my budget don't get it done.
 
 
Main thing, it needs to function 100 percent and 1911s on my budget don't get it done.
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What's your budget?

My Norinco M1911 is 100% with 200gr. Hornady TAP. Actually, it's 100% with most everything. It's never been throated. I needed some trigger group replacements and a minor amount of gunsmithing. Probably less than $100 total. I bought it for $300 with the first Bush stimulus check.

Rock Islands have a good reputation too. I'm thinking about one of their .38 Supers.
 
I'm proud for you, but I'll keep my Ruger, thanks. You got lucky from my experience with an AMT and a Auto Ordinance. The AMT had to go to a smith to work out of the box. Extractor was ill-fitted. What a POS. :rolleyes: I got it to work with ball and 200 grain SWC handloads, had it throated and polished and whatever when I had it at the smith's getting the extractor fitted. Still, no go. My Ruger will feed an empty case. If it has a bullet in it, bonus. LOL I might try a Wilson or something if I really wanted a 1911, but I really don't even like the things, grip is too narrow, don't like the safety, don't like condition one, they're heavy, don't like 'em, period. A fatter grip fits my hand better. Love the Hogues on the Ruger P guns. I still have a stash of flying ashtrays and carry them in it when I carry it.
 
Animals in general are thoroughly unimpressed by low velocity non-expanding round nose bullets. People may be different, but I doubt it.
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Well, I don't know about you but I would be pretty darned impressed if I were to be smacked with a round of .45acp ball. Or, should I say I would be pretty pi**ed off assuming that I survived.
 
Well, shoot ten animals with hardball and ten more with hollowpoints. See which group of animals is more "impressed".

Make sure it's legal to use FMJ while hunting in your area, though. Lots of places outlaw it. A detective would call that a clue... :p
 
If .45 ACP Ball is good enough for the US military, it's good enough for me.

45 ACP Cartridge History

The .45 ACP Cartridge was conceived in the early days of the 20th Century. In 1904, the Frankford Arsenal and commercial manufacturers were asked by the U.S. Government to develop a .45 caliber pistol cartridge. Winchester and Colt, working together, developed a response released in 1905 as the ".45 Automatic Colt" matched to a new Colt pistol chambered for the cartridge.

The cartridge/pistol combination was quite successful but not satisfactory for U.S. military purposes. Over the next few years a series of improved designes were offered, culminating in the adoption in 1911 of the "Cal. .45 Automatic Pistol Ball Cartridge, Model of 1911", a 1.273 inch cartridge with a bullet weight of 230 grains. The very first production, at Frankford Arsenal, was marked "F A 8 11", for the August 1911 date.

The cartridge was designed by John Browning of Colt, but the real influance over the choice of cartridge for the new Army pistol was Gen. John T. Thompson, (yes, the same Thompson as in Thompson submachine gun), a member of the Army Ordnance. Thompson insisted on a real "man stopper" pistol, following the poor showing of the Army's .38 Long Colt pistols during the Philippine Insurrection (1899-1902).

Thompson and Major Louis Anatole LaGarde of the Medical Corps arranged tests in 1904 on cadavers and animal remains in the Chicago stockyards, resulting in a finding that the .45 was the most effective pistol cartridge. They noted, however, that training was critical to make sure a soldier could score a hit in a vulnerable part of the body.

In addition to its use with the M1911 pistols, the .45 ACP is used in the Thompson submachine guns, and the M-3 submachine guns as well as service revolvers Colt M-1917 and the Smith and Wesson M-1917.

The .45 ACP Cartridge in 2006
In 1985 the .45 ACP M1911A1 pistol was replaced by the M9 Beretta 9mm pistol as the main sidearm of the U.S. military, although Special Forces and others continued to use the M1911A1 or other .45 ACP pistols. In August 2005, the DoD issued specifications for the Military Forces Joint Combat Pistol (JCP), a possible replacement for the M9 Pistol. The specification requires the JCP to be chambered for .45 ACP ammunition. The JCP procurement was postponed in 2006, but it seemed clear that the days of the M9 9mm pistol were coming to an end and that its replacement will mark a return to the .45 ACP cartridge.

.45 ACP Cartridge Description
The ball bullet consists of a metal jacket surrounding a lead alloy core. The bullet tip is unpainted. The case is brass. The service grade Ball M1911 has a weight of 331 grains in a length of 1.275 inches. The bullet weight is 230 grains. Muzzle velocity is 885 fps as measured by the Army.

There are a number of cartridges in the .45 ACP family for the variety of military uses:

Cartridge, Caliber .45, Wad Cutter
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Ball, High Pressure Test, M1
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Blank, M9
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Tracer, M26
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Line Throwing, M32
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Ball, M1911
Cartridge, Caliber .45, Ball, Match, M1911
Cartridge, Dummy, Caliber .45, M1921

To use the Ball cartridges in revolvers, such as the M1917 Pistols, they must be assembled in half-moon clips that hold the rimless cartridges in proper position and also serve as a speed loader.

Under NSN 1305-00-555-7077 the ammunition nomenclature is Cartridge, Caliber .45, Ball, M1911. It is packaged 50 rounds per carton, 20 cartons per M2A1 metal ammo can, 2 cans per wirebound box, 36 boxes per pallet.

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_45acp.php
 
.45 Ball is "good enough for the military" because by the "rules of war" (whatever the hell THAT is), it's all they can use. Actually, they don't use .45 anymore, switched to 9mm Beretta M9, so that must mean that 9mm ball is better than .45ACP ball, right? :rolleyes:

Ball is over-penetrative and I will not consider it for use in self defense for that reason alone, not just the much better effectiveness of expanding bullets. There was a story on the news tonight where a news paper carrier (I do that, too, and collect on Tuesdays, so I can relate) was accosted by a guy with a knife in a store. He pulled his CCW and fired. Now, I don't know if he shot through the guy or just missed, but he hit an innocent bystander. That's a felony in Texas no matter the circumstances, self defense or not. Yeah, he shoulda made danged sure of his background, but this illustrates one reason why I don't like ball ammo. That guy will likely be charged with "wreckless injury of a third person" under Texas statute. This is something I worry a LOT about if I have to shoot. I wanna reduce my exposure to this risk as much as possible. I guess frangibles would be ideal, but I'm not real up on frangibles, can't afford enough of 'em to test reliability. Guess I could carry 'em in a revolver, but I'll just make sure of my background and use a good hollowpoint.

Any time you pull your weapon, you'll be lookin' at legal fees. I'd like to keep those fees down and stay out of the slammer if at all possible.
 
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They DO use .45 ACP
In 1985 the .45 ACP M1911A1 pistol was replaced by the M9 Beretta 9mm pistol as the main sidearm of the U.S. military, although Special Forces and others continued to use the M1911A1 or other .45 ACP pistols.
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The 1911 was designed for Ball ammo and it does the job. And all this hoo haa about overpenetration is nonsense.
 
they don't use .45 anymore, switched to 9mm Beretta M9, so that must mean that 9mm ball is better than .45ACP ball, right?
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He said, thereby proving he didn't read the whole post
 
230Gr FMJ has been in combat use for close to 100 years. I will take that to mean it works.
 
It apparently works for military purposes -- and military rules. A good question is whether the military's purposes and rules are the same as yours.
 
The military WANTS penetration, even in a sidearm, armor, ya know?

The 1911 was designed for Ball ammo and it does the job. And all this hoo haa about overpenetration is nonsense.
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How is it "nonsense". You wanna kill a third person and go to prison? I'll let you read the statute.....

§ 9.05. RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON. Even
though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or
using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also
recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the
justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a
prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent
third person.
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If you can afford to run enough $25 for a box of 20 jhp through you weapon then run that. If you can't then run what you know will work. I run PMC 230gr ball right now cause that is all my very new Glock 21 sf has ever seen.
 
How do you know that to be true?
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Isn't it obvious? Weren't thousands of people killed by .45 Ball in WWI and WWII? Seems like a no brainer to me!
How is it "nonsense". You wanna kill a third person and go to prison? I'll let you read the statute.....
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No chance of that in my house; there are only two of us. Besides, I'll use my 12 gage in the house.

BTW, ya'll might find this interesting...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

We then replaced the sheetrock with something tougher, 3/4 inch Ponderosa Pine boards.

Here I am shooting a .45ACP at the box.

We fired several rounds and saw the following Penetration:

.22 Long Rifle (Wildcats) - 4 boards and bounced off 5th board.

9MM JHP (Federal) - 8 boards, bounced off 9th.

.45ACP (Federal Hydrashocks) - 7 boards, bounced off 8th.

Amazingly, none expanded at all. The nose just filled up with pine.

(I once fired a .380 into a solid hardwood door and it just dented it and fell out. Another time my buddy and I were riding our horses in the Sawtooth mountains and found an old weathered bulls skull next to the trail. So, we stopped to eat a sandwitch and do some shooting. At 10 paces, neither of us could penetrate that bulls skull with either his .357 or my .44 mag.)
 
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Isn't it obvious? Weren't thousands of people killed by .45 Ball in WWI and WWII? Seems like a no brainer to me!
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Thousands of people have been killed by .22 LR as well. That doesn't make it a good self defense cartridge.
 
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