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Holosight on top of scope on AR? yes/no?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by noob_shooter, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    what do you think? something like this.

    [​IMG]

    Not my gun.. i just added the holosight on top just to see how it would look before actually doing it.

    using this:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I recommend mounting it at the 1:30'o'clock position at the rear of the float tube like this.

    A100_0496_img.jpg
     
  3. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    If you do it like Zak suggests, you keep a reasonable height over bore and a reasonable cheekweld. If you use the rings shown in the OP's photo, you get a height over bore of around 5" or so, which does really weird things to your zero and will make it hard to hit exactly where you want at the short to medium distances where you would want to be using the holosight instead of the conventional telescope, while also making your cheekweld more of a throat/beard weld.
     
  4. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    okay.. so where can i get a mount like that? can it be mounted onto my MOE magpul handguard?
     
  5. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    If you don't have a fixed fore-end like the PRI to JP (pictured in the OP), you can get a 45 degree rail adapter and mount it on the front end of the receiver rail.
     
  6. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    i found this.. thanks ZAk.. i did a search on google for your 45 degree rail...

    [​IMG]

    i can mount this on my gas block...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    A red dot will be more effective mounted further to the rear.
     
  8. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    so since i have the moe handguard and the side seems to be offset by 45 degrees, maybe i can just buy one of these moe rails and it will work? i can mount it back farther..

    http://store.magpul.com/product/107/104

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Just remember if the top part of the handguard moves your zero changes.
     
  10. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    oh yeah..darn it.... forgot all about that. The handguard is only polymer.. seems pretty sturdy though..

    why is it that a holosight is more effective closer towards the rear vs the front by the gas block?
     
  11. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Because you can pick it up easier, IE, it takes more angle of deflection up close to lose sight of the dot.
     
  12. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    noob, you probably don't want to hear this, but you likely would be far better off putting all your money and effort into a single better quality scope and mount chosen for the type of shooting you are going to do most often. I.e. a red dot if you're mostly doing shorter distance or action shooting, a telescope if you're focused on longer distance precision shooting. Getting good results with the type of setup Zak showed is not going to be cheap, and you could waste a lot of money doing a cheap mediocre version that won't perform well.

    I personally have wasted a fair bit of money on cheap scopes that weren't worth it. I eventually started playing with the higher end stuff (Eotech, Aimpoint, ACOG) and while the price is up there, the quality is dramatically better. There are a few less expensive scopes I've found decent - the Vortex Strikefire for a red dot, and the Weaver K-4 for a 4x telescope - but you have to do your research and still shouldn't expect even the best $150 scope to work like a $500 or $1000 scope.

    BTW, I have MOE handguards and I wouldn't seriously consider mounting an optic or any other aiming device (laser, etc.) on them. For me they are looser fitting than the OEM handguards. They look cool and offer rail options for some basic uses, but are not an optic mounting platform.
     
  13. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    well, i have a decent scope on my DPMS carbine. Redfield 4x-12x-40. I shoot both far and close that's why I want that setup. I usually shoot 25yard-300 yards and using the scope at 25 yards is not that great. I mean, it is, but just wouldn't prefer using the scope at 25 yards.
     
  14. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    Not trying to tell you what to do, but I'll bet you that a comparably priced 1-4x or 2-7x scope would work better for that range of uses than your Redfield 4-12x. A lot of people gravitate toward too much magnification. Remember that Army and USMC snipers have until very recently used only fixed 10x scopes for shooting out to 1000 yards. Ideal, not necessarily, but completely functional, rugged, and less expensive than comparably good zoom options with more peak magnification.
     
  15. Birddog1911

    Birddog1911 Member

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    I can't necessarily speak to the set up that Zak has, other than to say that it is a nice set up. I will tell you that I have run two different EOTechs, and love them. The ability to sight quickly with them is unsurpased, IMO, better than the "scope" types like Aimpoint. Now, Aimpoint has some great things going for them, as well.
     
  16. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    Z-Michigan,

    true.... maybe i'll throw this redfield on my savage 17hmr BTVS... only reason i wanted a red dot setup with the scope is so i can get a quick target acquisition at closer range. i have a feeling i'm gonna spend extra $$$ for a good setup...
     
  17. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Here is a reference for optics applications on the AR-15

    D100_5378_img.jpg
    article | Fighting Carbine Optics extwh3.png

    FWIW, the small red dot in my photo is a DrSight.
     
  18. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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  19. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    For a flashlight, I personally would (and do!) use one half of a $10 Ergo polymer rail (same one Magpul sells, I believe). It's cheap, light, and works fine for something like a flashlight. The rails you're picturing appear to be aluminum, and I just don't see the benefit. If you really want those check out options from GG&G and YHM.

    BTW, if you really want to do a lot of things with a quadrail, save yourself lots of aggravation and abandon the MOE handguards, and get a Troy setup, like the drop-in, non-free-float battlerail linked below. They are $150 or less, quality, and will actually mount rigidly and be in spec. Again, I've played with the cheaper quadrail options (MOE and a UTG setup that is the same concept as this Troy but a cheap Chinese product) and only come away frustrated.

    http://store.troyind.com/CAR_M4_Drop_In_Rails_p/srai-mrf-d7bt-00.htm

    Quadrails from LaRue and Daniel Defense are equal (or even better) quality, and options from Midwest and YHM would be worth considering but all considered I think the Troy is probably the best value.
     
  20. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    thanks Z. I will have to really look @ the Troy setup...
     
  21. M&PVolk

    M&PVolk Member

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    For a good all around scope that can be used for varminting and relatively quick target acquisition, I like the Nikon Prostaff BDC scope in 3-9x40. The BDC does very well at helping judge what is going on with the .223, especially from a 16" barrel. If you want a red dot, I would either mount it when needed, or put it at a 45 as mentioned earlier. FWIW, the Nikon will run you under $200. Not a bad deal at all.
     
  22. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    damn... thanks for all the help guys..
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  23. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    If you shoot right handed the sight goes on the right.

    Another option is to put a third ring on the scope forward of the regular forward ring and put a two-sided rail on its base, and put the red dot on that rail.
     
  24. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    i thought of something..

    this l_080000533_1.jpg

    +

    [​IMG]
     
  25. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    i'm afraid... what if the extracted shells hit the holosight....?? i'm right handed, but just kinda tried it out holding my AR and i think i feel okay with the holosight on the left. (if i have to)
     
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