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Holsters that do not cover the trigger

Discussion in 'Handguns: Holsters and Accessories' started by Flechette, Jun 6, 2013.

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  1. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I meant to address this earlier.

    It 1) doesn't put the pistol into play any faster and 2) the amount of movement is exactly the same.

    I'll address the second point first. At some point in the presentation, the finger must move from being off the trigger to being on the trigger. I'm not sure how you are seeing less movement if it goes on the trigger before it is pointed at the target.

    It is much safer to access the trigger after the muzzle has been rotated from the vertical to the horizontal. It must be rotated before a shot should be fired. If the finger is placed on the trigger after, or during, the rotation, how is it any slower. If you extend the gun before firing the first shot, there is plenty of time between Position 3 and Position 4 (in a 4 step draw) to access the trigger.

    During testing in the late 60s, they found that there was no difference between the times, to the first accurate shot, from a holster, between a DA revolver, DA/SA pistol or SAO pistol
     
  2. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    As "No Toes" Lewis found out -- the hard way.;)
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Exactly who was doing that testing??

    The way I recall it, the fastest times ever recorded where being done by the fast draw crowd like Bob Munden, and the guys at Big Bear lake who invented the speed-shooting combat games.

    Copper, Jack Weaver, Eldon Carl, Michael Harries, Thell Reed, and a few others were inventing modern combat shooting technique and leather to go with it.

    Nobody used a covered trigger holster in those days.

    And they beat everyone that came along for speed, and accuracy.

    Last I heard, they still all had all their toes when they died too.

    rc
     
  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    You just named them. Cooper wrote about it in Cooper On Handguns

    Gee, except for Weaver (with his K-38), these guys sure look like they are wearing holsters which cover the trigger guard (Chapman, Carl, Reed, Cooper, Weaver)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Archaic Weapon

    Archaic Weapon member

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    They aren't. Those are lowered fast draw rigs that sit around the bottom of the cylinder, or would if they were revolvers. They still sit high on a 1911. I have a kydex concealed carry in the same pattern..
     
  6. Archaic Weapon

    Archaic Weapon member

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    The movement from trigger guard to trigger is an added step, it does change the the grip, specifically, and it's not a problem if you have training in doing it. Finger on the trigger, and finger pulling the trigger on the draw are two different things.
     
  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Maybe a picture with the guns holstered

    Oldshootingpics120.gif

    178801AT-Rogers.jpg

    17880rogers-hack.jpg
     
  8. Archaic Weapon

    Archaic Weapon member

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    Interesting. I can see how that would work with a 1911.
     
  9. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    The key to speed with those 1911 holsters is that the holster does not come to the back of the triggerguard. So the second finger goes right where it's supposed to. I still don't think people should be quite so afraid of the trigger. You still have to deliberately press it after flicking off the safety.
     
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    And even if they did have an ND every once and a while?

    The extreme foreword rake of the holster put the bullet in the ground in front of them.

    So they didn't shoot their toe off after all!

    rc
     
  11. Archaic Weapon

    Archaic Weapon member

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    As somebody who has been shot in the foot, I can most definitely say that it had nothing to do with the trigger being pulled exiting the holster.
     
  12. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    We did things 20 years ago that we didn't do 40 years ago because no one thought of it until 30 years ago. We do things to day that we didn't do 20 years ago because no one thought of it until 10 years ago. And in 10 years, we will probably be doing things someone will come up with tomorrow.

    Techniques and equipment evolve. It's a process. Some call it progress. Most of the time it is.
     
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    +1

    I had one of those Jeff Cooper inspired, low-cut, steel-lined 1911 speed rigs about 40 years ago.

    Never forget the time I fumbled a fast draw and threw a cocked & un-locked 1911 about 20 feet down range by accident. :what:

    Dang!
    It was all slow motion in flight, like stuck on a railroad track with the train coming.
    Like watching a coiled rattlesnake just before you set your foot down on it.

    Tumbling end over end with the polished barrel bushing & muzzle glinting in the sun!
    Made the hair on my head stand up!
    When I still had hair.

    But the 1911 grip safety worked as designed, and it didn't go off when it hit the ground and bounced twice.

    Thankya, JMB, and the Horse Calvary era Army Ordnance people who insisted on a grip safety!!

    rc
     
  14. Elm Creek Smith

    Elm Creek Smith Member

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    It would block the hammer movement of the gun for which it was designed.

    Because they aren't Glockities.

    My primary carry and holster:
    ejuregy6.jpg

    My secondary carry and holster:
    qa5yvezu.jpg

    What are your questions?

    ECS

    Sent from my little slice of Heaven.
     
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    The Walther PP/PPK, SIG P-230 and Smith & Wesson post-1945 revolvers have one thing in common. They cannot be fired unless the trigger is held all of the way back while the cocked hammer falls. In the case of the two mentioned pistols this is true even if the manual safety is in an "off" position. Because of the respective designs, covering the trigger or trigger guard is completely unnecessary.

    So far as the revolver is concerned, the above picture shows that the entire handle is exposed so that it can be correctly grasp, while the thumb releases the safety strap and the trigger finger is along the side of the trigger. There is no leather in the way to hinder a fast draw. At this point all one has to do is present (point) the gun, and if necessary pull the trigger and shoot.
     
  16. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Watch out for the AOW trap if the gun can be fired while still in the holster and it no longer looks like a gun.
     
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