Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Home defence loads for 7.62x54R and 8mm

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by batjka, Oct 15, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. batjka

    batjka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    Currently all I have are bolt action rifles. Some are 7.62x54R, some are 8mm, and some others. Getting a handgun is not in my plans in the near future. What I would like to do is to develop some loads for the rifles to use for home defense. Obviously firing regular ammo inside the house with neighbors around is not a good idea.

    I was thinking along the lines of reduced loads close to 45LC or 44Spl in energy to prevent overpenetration but that would still be effective at HD. Any suggestions?

    Thanks
     
  2. offthepaper

    offthepaper Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,436
    overpenetration could be a problem. :uhoh:
     
  3. K3

    K3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,508
    Location:
    Looking through the scope at a coyote
    Does your Mosin have a bayonet? :D
     
  4. Funderb

    Funderb Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,104
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Bold new city of the south.
  5. rondog

    rondog Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,775
    Location:
    Commurado
    There's no way I'd use a rifle like that for home defense! Besides the over-penetration aspect, you'd be deaf for life. Go buy a cheap Hi-Point pistol at least, or shop for a used pistol.
     
  6. jr45

    jr45 Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    403
    Location:
    Virginia
    I would agree with the other posters that those rifles are not the best to use in a home. You can find a shotgun for $150+/- that would suite your needs.
    However; if you are dead set on using these rifles, you could load down both to about 1800fps. I use 28-30 grains of H4895 under 185gr cast bullets for my 8mm Mauser and I have also successfully used jacket bullets of the same weight with the same charge (don't go any less on the powder if using jacketed bullets). According to the manual, that should give you 1700-1800fps (I don't have the manual in front of me now).
     
  7. closetgunnut

    closetgunnut Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    W. Pa
    Baby Mosin anyone???

    What about one of these for home defense?

    [​IMG]

    You would still have to worry about the over-penetration thing I guess.:banghead:

    Closet
     
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    16,214
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    BATFE is looking for you!
     
  9. Larry E

    Larry E Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Billings, MT
    An acceptable self defense load could be developed with a light 120-130 gr bullet designed for varmint hunting at nearly full velocity. One of those shouldn't have an overpenetration problem, but it'd be horrendously loud. A .45 LC with a good load will shoot through a house from side to side unless something pretty substantial like a big chunk of meat in the refrigerator is hit.

    The other problem with most military rifles is that they're LONG. Trying to maneuver one of those around an average house or apartment could prove to be tricky.

    Unless you'd like to pay $200 for a license for a "destructive device" or want to explain things to BATFE and a judge, don't cut the stock and barrel off to make it illegal either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  10. closetgunnut

    closetgunnut Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    W. Pa
    armoredman

    Nope! I took it to a local gunsmith/dealer and he said that it was legal. Overall length is 30.5 inches and the barrel is a smidge over 20.

    A relative resently passed and I was given all of his reloading stuff. When I removed a stack of about 20 dies this was behind them. His sister signed it over to me.

    Closet
     
  11. GaryL

    GaryL Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    MN
    Don't use handloads for self defense!

    Every article I've ever read by anyone with legal experience regarding self defense have all said the same thing. Do NOT Use Handloads For Self Defense.

    It gives the prosecuting attorney "ammo" to use against you. How are you going to prove you didn't load some special "killer" bullets?

    One other, more important issue, factory ammo has been tested and has certain proven characteristics, like the pattern of burnt powder residue deposited at close range. There was a cop who was acquitted of shooting a perp largely because the perp's claim of being 30' away was impossible given the powder residue on the perps clothing that indicated a max distance of 18".

    Do use handloads to develop skills useful for self defense.
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    16,214
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    In that case, there's a chiropractor looking to work on your hands/wrists - OUCH!
     
  13. closetgunnut

    closetgunnut Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    W. Pa
    I did shoot it twice and it kicked like a mule! I held it on my hip with my thumb next to my trigger finger and my left hand on top of the chamber. It's not real accurate.:eek: Imagine that!!

    I think I'll clean it up and display it. Nice conversation piece.
     
  14. Steve C

    Steve C Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,642
    You can load 10grs of Red Dot with either a cast or jacketed bullet of normal weight for the cartridge. No fillers and don't go past 13 grs. With a jacketed bullet the velocity should be around 1,200 to 1,300 fps for either.
     
  15. batjka

    batjka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    Thank you guys for the suggestions.

    Getting a handgun for me is pretty much out of the question, unless I move out of the NYC. Shotgun is an option, but I wasn't planning on buying another gun for a while. Although, one never knows.

    10gr of Red Dot sound like a plan. I have a can of 2400 at home. Would that work? I experimented with reduced loads for 303 British using 19.2 gr of 2400. Wouldn't know the velocity though as I don't have a chronograph. Do you think this load would be OK for my purposes?
     
  16. telecaster1981

    telecaster1981 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    297
    +1 on the Red Dot idea. I used to load up 30-06 this way with a 110gr Sierra Varminter. Not sure how fast it was going, but I'd suspect it'd do just fine. I suppose the same kind of loading with light bullets would do well for 7.62x54r or 8x57 (I think Hornady makes a 125gr bullet).
     
  17. Steve C

    Steve C Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,642
    You can contact Alliant at http://www.alliantpowder.com/ and go to the "Contact Us" for their e-mail or phone number.

    Tell them your looking for a low power load using the powder of your choice for a 1,200 - 1,300 fps with the bullet you want to use. They'll most likely send you a load. It may take some time.
     
  18. PTK

    PTK Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,712
    Location:
    Montana
    You mean short barreled rifle. Sure is a hoot to shoot a 91/30 like that.... :D

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Grizz77

    Grizz77 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    My not on it is get a managable rifel u like in handgun cal such as Henery yellowboy in 44mag and run agood self defence load like T.A.P.
     
  20. BattleChimp Potemkin

    BattleChimp Potemkin Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Indianapolis IN
    Batjke,

    While there would be no end to answers regarding not to do it, I think a Mosin, loaded properly would be actually a great home defense gun. Check out Brassfetcher online for their 203gr Soft Point gel tests for 7.62x54. Neat stuff and penetration seems manageable (however, it is Barnaul ammo, so flash would set the house on fire) :D.

    Also, Graf and Sons used to have a 125gr Hornady VMax for .311 diameter guns (specifically the x39). This, loaded with a mild load to keep flash down would be great. Failing that, a 125gr soft point would keep overpenetration down, as I would imagine most of the .311 diameter 125gr softpoints are designed for x39, not x54. Anything heavier than that would most likely overpenetrate. As for flash, lower loads are a must. Also, in my loading adventures, Vihtavouri powders always seem VERY low flash and perform superbly.

    As for 8mm Mauser, in my opinion, would not use for home defense. Most bullets for loading in that diameter are heavy soft points that are designed for heavier animals. Unless you can find a light weight soft point for it, Mauser would be out of the question in my mind.

    I have always been under the idea that a bolt action (if properly loaded for and trained with) can be effective for home defense. It isnt the latest shotgun with lights attached or tacti-crap on it, but one can still attach a light to a Mosin and have an effective home defense. The M44 Mosin, coupled with a scout mount/large diameter red dot, with a light attached (while looking ungainly), good loading and proper technique would be a very effective home defense weapon. Just because it takes a little more practice than a claymore on a stick doesnt mean discount it if that is all one has/limited to.

    As far as not using handloads for defense, has there ever been a case regarding this? I have nothing but respect for Ayoob, but filler material for his book would be what I believe this to be. So many people say that but never come up with case one where it was used as an attack against the defendant. Heck, I could imagine that lots of folks that cant afford factory ammo using ball reloads bought from a store (like ultramax or house brands)for defense. I load all my loads for defense very stringently for quality and never scrimp (I dont use a progressive just for that reason, gotta check every one). I have NEVER had one load not go off. YMMV. I feel as long as one doesnt gas on about reloaded ammo and how it made him dead right there, one should be fine. Sorry for the rant, but I get a little hot under the collar when I hear that stuff. To me it is a similar arguement above: Its not the most tacticool round on the planet, so you will get in trouble in court for using it.
     
  21. subierex

    subierex Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    271
    PTK,

    Please tell me that chopped 91/30 is a Photoshop:eek:

    The muzzle blast on that must make an M44 look/sound like a kids cap gun.:what:
     
  22. Der Verge

    Der Verge Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    Sportsman's paradise
    Screw the mosin and the mauser for home D. Use a ball bat. It is more fun:what:
     
  23. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    10,498
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...What about one of these..." The only thing that's more useless than a shotgun with no stock is a rifle with no stock.
    "...Any suggestions?..." Buy a 12 or 20 guage pump shotgun. If that's out, financially, look into light cast bullet loads. You'll still have over penetration issues though. They're still far faster than any handgun bullet.
     
  24. Crazy Fingers

    Crazy Fingers member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    243
    Dude, I really would ditch the bolt action rifle for home defense. I hate to say it, but if some guy comes in your house with a wonder nine or a shotgun, you are gonna be toast. :what:

    I really think you should spend the extra $150 on a good used shotgun.
     
  25. fireflyfather

    fireflyfather Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    807
    Actually, it's safe to go up to 15 grains of red dot in these cartridges. Generally, though, 13 grains is ideal.

    (From Ed Harris).

    I load squib loads with 7 grains of red dot in the mosin. No recoil worth talking about, and with a 160gr bullet, I figure it's somewhere between .38 special and .357 in terms of muzzle energy.

    That's far below published loads, however, so use at your own risk. Be alert for squibs. I use it in a 91/30, so if your mosin is a carbine, you'd probably have no problems with that load.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page