Home Defense and children?

[docsleepy]

I'd like to see if people think my plans are good ones.

My concern in a home defense alarm is to avoid children/other loved ones from being shot. College son comes back, accidentally sets off alarm, etc etc.

I've heard stories of spouses being taken for burglars and shot by mistake when they were just up for a trip to the restroom.

So I rigged the gun safe (and if I get a pistol vault, that too) up to the burglar alarm.

Instructed everyone that if the alarm goes off it either means:
a) someone has broken in OR
b) someone THINKS there is danger and has gotten out a firearm

In either case, if the alarm goes off, kids should go out their window, NOT walk around the house, and anyone who IS walking around the house should hit the deck/announce their presence to avoid a tragedy.

Are these reasonable plans? We live in a very safe (so far) gated community and the risk of invasion is very low.

your comments welcome

 

[9MMare]

Do people usually shoot people without identifying them? Or asking them to identify themselves? Is this the recommended tactic? (Not from my reading)

I read about this happening too frequently.....

Re: your post...is there something wrong/bad idea with family members communicating verbally? Or is everyone supposed to be silent so the intruder doesnt know who/how many/where?

Most scenarios I've read have family going to a 'safe room' or remaining in a secured place in their room/bathroom. Why are people considered safer outside the home? WHo knows who is out there as well?

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I'm not liking the plan.

You have to identify the threat. Your building a "Fail Safe" which is isn't.....

You can do all (Or none) of the above, but you MUST identify someone in your house before you open fire (Unless you live alone, which you dont).

As said above ^ verbal communication could go along way here......


"Whose there!..........It's me Dad..........."

 

[sheepdog]

I would say...

...not a good plan...if there is a BG or more than one...the last thing your children need to do is leave the safety of the home or hit the floor and wait for the BG to snatch them for a shield...recent studies have shown that many children sleep right through the fire alarm...may do the same with the Burglar alarm...
...rather...if the alarm goes off, you should silently arm yourself and take up a position between the childrens' rooms and the rest of the home..and have your wife moving behind you to take them into the safest room...and stand watch over them armed until you resolve the issue...I'd take the alarm off the gunsafe...I'd also add a bright LED 3 or 4 watt handheld light to your gear...and USE it to identify any "intruder" clearly to prevent a tragedy...

 

[Hold My Own]

Well for one, you can't be too sure of what is outside during a break in. I'd say find a room somewhere, maybe? Get the kids a shotgun and teach them to use it. Also, you should probably invest in a good light for your HD weapon.

Also, about the shooting spouses and whatnot. As long as you don't fire before you can make out what the "threat" is, that shouldn't be a problem. Keep your finger off the trigger, until you're ready to destroy what you're aiming at.

 

[Broken11b]

Well, not knowing the layout of your home or how your family works, I dont think too many can tell you if its a good plan or not.
My family had a plan, or rather, I made one and told my family the plan. But I dont expect them to follow the plan if anything happens.
after a faulty alarm, I found that they cant remember, or wont follow the plans we had...
Fortunatly I had planned on them not following the plan. My job in all of this was to gather them, and physically place them in the "safe room".
Dont plan on your family doing what theyre supposed to under stress. plan on them not being where theyre supposed to. Just my 2 cents

 

[garyr]

I have children in my home plus two dogs. If the dogs bark it's an intruder or something outside (animal/noise/wind/etc). If they start barking late at night....I usually produce my pistol from the side of the bed (Or the shotgun from my office..whichever is closer) and take a look around. I think it would be very hard for me to pull the trigger on a family member since I would surely identify the threat before reacting.

Dogs woke me up one night barking a very strange bark. I grabbed my pistol and went to the kitchen just as a car door slammed shut and a car peeled out from in front of my house. Extra treats that night let me tell you.

 

[AKElroy]

Your plan would not work for me.

We have drilled as a family what happens when the alarm goes off. We are placing a great deal of faith in that system, so it MUST function perfectly. That means battery back up in a locked steel case, and every opening/sensor checked periodically.

My wife & kids know where to go when that alarm sounds, and I know what I am doing to clear the house. I also am a big believer in tactical lights, and my HD 12 guage has a quality light mounted. I will NEVER pull the trigger without identifying the target, because I will not expect anyone to actually keep to the plan. I keep 9 pellet federal premium 00 Buck loaded.

It is also important to work out what your intentions are if you come face to face with an intruder. Do you shoot without warning? Do you attempt to hold for police? Do you attempt to get them to leave? These questions need to be answered as part of your plan.

For me, unless they are advancing in any way, I will scream for them to GET OUT. I have no desire to play policeman, nor do I have any desire to second guess providing an opportunity to the perp to flee. They are only a threat while they are in my house.

One other point---In my area, home invasions are more likely than a stealthy burgler in the middle of the night. What is your plan when the front door is suddenly kicked in, followed by 3 swarming perps demanding you get face down? Do you have access to a gun in that scenario? Would you be able to deploy it against armed intruders? I do not have a good answer for this one other than good lighting to hopefully make my home less of a target.

Lastly, PRACTICE and seek out professional training if you can afford it. It is VERY good to be asking these questions & thinking about your defensive plan.

 

[Defense Minister]

You're going to hear this a lot, and there is a reason for it: a good light and positive identification are a must before putting your finger on the trigger. You'll also hear a lot of debate about which is better, a handheld tactical light, or a weapon-mounted light. When it comes to home defense, I prefer both.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

A good but slightly grumpy dog is a great way to jump start the identification process.

If rover is chewing the crap out of someone, that would be the bad guy....

 

[docsleepy]

Great info so far:

a) I don't place as much faith in people "identifying" -- I work in a field where we have reduced our fatality rate down to 1 in 1 million and that was done by never ASSUMING that people will follow the correct procedure -- but instead, building in additional safeguards. Certainly you should identify, but I cannot guarantee that my wife will remember that when she's terrified.

b) My kids' rooms are on a completely separate floor and it would be impossible for anyone to go to them safely. They all have ready access to porch roofs and can get out of the house safely. I can't guarantee of course that the outside is safer.

c) my main concern is to avoid tragedies, and your suggestions to emphasize identifying targets is well taken!

d) at present we have a dog, but in a few years probably not.

e) I do not have a good defense against a sudden home invasion. Without 24-hour carry inside the house, that probably isn't defendable. But we are the LAST house in a gated neighborhood and there hasn't been a home invasion on our side of town to my knowledge, ever.

 

[wishin]

No insult intended, but if you feel like your personality is such that an impulse shooting is likely under high stress, I propose that you don't even think about having a gun in the house. Any plan will be fraught with peril should a homeowner be inclined towards reactive, thoughtless action. Again, I reiterate that I'm not taking a potshot, just saying.

 

[cornman]

I agree with 'wishin'. Unless you live in a massive crime area why would you be so fearful of someone coming into your home? I would say I have had at least a dozen people enter my home in one from or another while I was sleeping. One was a break-in, the rest were mistaken drunks and friends. Only with the break-in was I a bit worried. IMO the chance of a burglery are .001% on any given night. And even if someone breaks in the chance that they want any trouble is .00001%.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

cornman..... Me thinks your in college.....

The pendulum just swung the other way....

The rest of us dont have a revolving door....I did in college...different now.

 

[stevemis]

You're creating a situation whereby the security system will alarm whenever you open the safe? I can certainly understand the interest in alerting others in the home that something potentially bad is happening, but you must consider the unintended consequences of alerting the bad guy. Silence is golden.

If you can add the safe as a zone in your system, you should be able to add a panic button next to or near the safe. Depending on your system, you could also add a couple of wireless remotes with arm/disarm and panic. I think this is a far wiser route.

If you're stuck on adding a zone as a stealth method for tripping the alarm, consider adding a magnetic sensor to something which is not frequently moved and could be something of interest to a bad guy. For example, a $20 Wal-Mart "strong box" with $20 in it and some papers. If you need to stealthly trigger the alarm, just pick up (hand them) the box or tell them to take it. Another option is a really low-end (cheap!!) unused wall safe with a wall-hanging picture covering it, which would trip when the picture is removed. Consider making this a "silent" zone so the police are alerted (as a panic) but the alarm does NOT sound.

 

[docsleepy]

stevemis raises a good point, for which I don't exactly have an answer.

If a forced entry sets off the alarm, then everyone ALREADY knows something bad is going down and will take appropriate action.

If a forced entry does NOT set off the alarm, but the homeowner detects something is amiss, then the issue is how to protect the children who are on a separate floor; keep them OUT of the action, and if possible preserve the element of surprise.

I think our likely response would be to lock the bedroom door (if not already locked) and call 911....but that will be quite a while in our community.
Perhaps the system should LOCK the childrens' rooms!


As to the comments regarding errors of human judgement under stress: Yes, I am a firm believer that my wife or I could make a mistake, even if others are not. I read a case where police pumped six rounds into the HOMEOWNER who was holding the intruder for them........certainly my wife and I are not as well trained as the police....anyone can make a mistake. The goal is to put in procedures and systems to reduce those mistakes. A lot of my concern is for the nights where I'm not there and my wife is there alone.

Others may be forgetting that children are not allowed (in my state) to have access to firearms!

Any good ideas on how best to protect children from becoming involved? I remember my dad strictly warning me NOT to go roaming through the house at night....I didn't understand his concern at the time, but now it is obvious. A parent might easily think the child is a burglar. Perhaps it is best to advise the children to turn on a lot of lights if they are up....

 

[docsleepy]

I really think the dog is one of the best alarms, but the wife is determined not to have one once our current dog departs.

 

[emerson]

What happens if your college son comes back after drinking and forgets to announce himself?

I think you are hyper concerned about an event which has a low probability. You have a security system - that makes you feel comfortable so it is a good thing. I would suggest you invest in 1) training, and 2) a good flashlight.

 

[flrfh213]

your wife will feel safer with a large dog but even the ankle biters will alert you to a stranger in the house. i am on a single floor but my dog is also 75 pounds and she sounds huge thru the door, had a leo tell me one day to put the dog up or it was going to be shot, we were in the front yard after house across the street was robbed as i had my 45 on my side and was told in this case they will overlook it tonight.... lol
the officer didnt like it when i told him i out shoot 2/3 of his department.

 

[zombienerd]

What ever happened to "BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET, and what is behind it"

One of the four rules.

I would never pull the trigger without a 100% positive identification that it is not a family member.

 

[Avenger29]

Weaponlights are made for specifically IDing targets. Mount a quality one up and get some low light training.

 

[P97]

My home invasion prevention is dogs. If I didn't have dogs I would have good outside lighting around the house. Inside, blinding flashlight for identification and gun for follow-up if necessary. In my situation it is best for family members to stay where they are supposed to be. If they are in their beds I know where they are. Have your light and gun where you can reach and get it from the bed, if you are easy to fully awake. If hard to awake, let your wife keep it. Never shoot at anything unless you are completely sure of the target.

 

[mcdonl]

This may sound "out there" but something I have done a couple of times is bring PVC/cardboard cover to the range. Set it up like your house (I have an issue where my kids are upstairs, and I am downstairs and have to go through the house to get to them) so I like to practice coming out my door and hitting targets where someone would likley be in my house.

You do train right?

 

[9MMare]

Well, not knowing the layout of your home or how your family works, I dont think too many can tell you if its a good plan or not.
My family had a plan, or rather, I made one and told my family the plan. But I dont expect them to follow the plan if anything happens.
after a faulty alarm, I found that they cant remember, or wont follow the plans we had...
Fortunatly I had planned on them not following the plan. My job in all of this was to gather them, and physically place them in the "safe room".
Dont plan on your family doing what theyre supposed to under stress. plan on them not being where theyre supposed to. Just my 2 cents

Granted, this can happen in any situation, but this is also why we have 'fire drills.' Did no one else practice these things as kids, at home? My father made us practice.

At least it helps. I know of others who practice home invader scenarios with their families. I dont because I dont have kids int he house.

 

[9MMare]

Docsleepy, isnt there a bathroom upstairs that could be fortified and the kids use that as a safe room? And your wife could retreat there to be with them? You would have codes/knocks etc to give all clear, let you or wife in, etc.

Again, I know at least one person that has their kids get in the tub for additional protection from gunfire.