Home Defense Carbine for my Wife: Ruger PC-9 versus Beretta CX-4 Storm versus AR-15

[cz75bdneos22]

On Loudness....

What! folks, has anyone had/needed to discharge a weapon without hearing protection on... especially at/near personal space distances...Hey! believe me i am no punk, but yes it does hurt!! and i don't mean no .22LR either..now...it will be a once in a lifetime occurence, hope to god. who cares what the inevitable discomfort will be...Man!! be glad if you do make it through the ordeal alive... i'll deal with the whatever after i am safely overcome the unecessary aggravation. my first priority will be to stay alive. period. by any means necessary... you will be pushed out of your comfort zone anyways, i don't mind getting my hair tossed around a little bit. YMMV.

 

[chopinbloc]

holy gratuitous use of smilies, batman!

seriously, i vote ar-15. ANY cartridge with sufficient energy to penetrate to vital organs of perps and disable or kill will also penetrate interior and exterior walls. a 50 or 55 grain hp will probably break up relatively quickly but no matter what you use there is a significant chance of rounds leaving your house if you don't hit the target. so hit your target, right? imho, the only reason for a pistol caliber carbine is to accept the same magazine as your pistol. if you're still really worried about sound levels, hang a pair of electronic ear muff on the bedpost. if she has time she can put 'em on and with the volume up she can even talk on the phone to 911.

of course whatever she is most comfortable with, can hit reliably with and meets or exceeds the power level of 9mm should be fine. my lady friend uses an ar-15 carbine and a .40 glock. contents may shift during shipment, your results may vary.

 

[Anthony]

All of these are excellent suggestions!

After looking at the potential firing angles last night and reviewing the various penetration tests several of you referenced I am leaning heavily toward the AR-15 in .223 with a 40 to 55-grain expanding bullet. It actually seems to be a safer choice compared to many of the handgun bullets.

The blast and report of the .223 Remington is a valid issue and I have been debating between the acquisition of some electronic shooting muffs or a Gemtech suppressor.

Does anyone have a favorite suppressor (Gemtech or otherwise) they would suggest?

 

[farscott]

I have been shopping for a home defense long gun for my wife that she can use when barricaded behind a locked bedroom door.

I know that this post is in the rifle section, but I suggest a shotgun for this application. Unless you are using slugs, excess penetration should not be an issue, and your wife can select a gun and gauge that works for her. If recoil is an issue, a Remington 1100 in 20-gauge is quite an easy shooter.

As for suppressors, Gemtech makes excellent models specifically for the .223. Of course, this adds length to your rifle. I have used a HALO that added almost eight inches to the length of the rifle. This is somewhat less than handy in tight quarters.

If you do purchase a suppressor for the AR for your wife's use, I suggest filing the NFA paperwork in HER name and getting a quick access safe for the rifle with the attached suppressor. Secure storage of NFA weapons is required by the BATFE.

 

[Texfire]

The blast and report of the .223 Remington is a valid issue and I have been debating between the acquisition of some electronic shooting muffs or a Gemtech suppressor

Of the two I would suggest the shooting muffs. Much cheaper and I can just see the media report now. Man was shot by a homeowner using a silenced assault weapon. No need to give the jury any chance to misunderstand, and electronic muffs will protect her hearing. Heck the shock of the noise might even help in subduing the perp.

Tex

 

[middy]

farscott has a point. A suppressed AR is going to be unwieldly unless it's also a SBR, more $. And it needs to secured, more $.

An automatic 20 ga loaded with buckshot will cheaper and a bit easier on the ears, and just as effective in a home defense situation.

 

[Ad Astra]

Shotgun.

Signed,
your worried neighbors.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

For the wife? I assume you think she needs a carbine for self defense to help offset the size, strength and potential number of her attackers, right? If you are going with a carbine, then you have several options, but I would suggest going with the most power for the package. The AR15 in 5.56 would be most ideal and with a good muzzle brake, it can have less recoil that a Beretta Storm in 9mm. I have both and really like shooting both.

The gun is for home defense, right? So you aren't talking about longer range shooting where the benefits of the long sight radius would really help pay off. Is this correct? If it is, I would NOT suggest going with a pistol caliber carbine such as the Storm in 9mm. Yes, you will get some added velocity for the 9mm from the carbine barrel over that of a pistol, but it isn't a huge amount. She could have a slightly less powerful 9mm handgun and have be able to use it better in tighter contexts such as around corners, from behind cover, etc.

What if your wife is injured? My guess is that she could shoot a 9mm handgun just fine one handed. Could she perform in the same manner with the Storm or other pistol caliber carbine? Maybe not. And maybe not on the AR15 either, but the AR15 comes with a lot more power than the 9mm Storm.

Everything has tradeoffs and while I really like the Storm, I don't think it is going to be the best defensive gun she can handle. I would go with a lot more power, or a much smaller platform such as a pistol.

I would suggest going the shotgun route, but my wife only lets me grab the AR15 as she is the one weilding the Rem 870 Marine Magnum 12 ga. Just a thought, but there isn't anything wrong with a good 12 ga. for the wife. She may need to practice a little, but it is an outstanding platform.

 

[JShirley]

Respectfully, the carbine is the way to go for defense. Shotguns at very close range have to be aimed just like a rifle does- at longer ranges (probably not an issue inside the house), with shot, there is more possibility of stray shot than with a single aimed rifle round. There are terminal considerations, too- a load of heavy shot that will down an adversary at close range fairly reliably, will still also be a threat to neighbors, possibly even more so than a lightweight, high speed carbine round, if a miss happens.

I am perfectly comfortable using a shotgun for HD, but that's just because I virtually grew up with one in my arms (and I use reduced recoil slugs, never shot)- for a beginning shooter, just go straight to the carbine.

The ONLY reason to choose a shotgun will be if that's what you already have, and can't afford anything better.

(.223/.30 Carbine/7.62x39mm) carbines have less recoil than shotguns, hold more rounds, and typically have better sights. I personally would use 50-62 grain expanding ammo in a .223~ ammoman may still have 50 grain Am Eagle Federal HP, which would work well for HD, and is economical.

As for blast and noise, I had my sole ND 17 years ago. It was a .270, and while I immediately mentally kicked myself, I was in no way incapacitated.

Regards,

John

 

[geekWithA.45]

Concur that carbine is the way to go on this, _UNLESS_ the wife in question is already familiar and truly comfy with a 12 gauge.

W/ respect to .223, I keep a few mags of the 50 grain frangibles around for indoor/outdoor use. I'd only go with an AR platform if she takes to it, in preference over the others.

 

[jeremywills]

if you do go with a 12 guage, theres recoil reducing stocks like the knoxx ones and adding forend pistol grips etc... you can make a good riot gun easier to handle for smaller statued people, either that or like already stated, a decent carbine and your set, just out of curiosity, whats her opinion, what does she think just off hand would probably work best, if shes already thinking one way would work better than the other then I would encourage that route and let her figure out what will work or not work

Good luck with your quest

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

John and geekwitha45 described my sentiments on shotgun v. carbine perfectly. If you give a new shooter a handgun, a shotgun and a carbine and time them on a relatively easy course, they almost always shoot best with the carbine (though many of them don't know to compensate for the high sight line of the carbine at that range and hit low).

In fact, if you search the THR archives in either Rifle Country or General Guns Discussion there is a link to a video of a new shooter going at a target with a .357 revolver loaded with .38s, an AR15, and a 12ga with reduced recoil loads. The AR15 wins.

Further John was absolutely correct in stating that a load heavy enough to penetrate to the vitals of an attacker is also going to be heavy enough to penetrate to the exterior wall just like a pistol round. Birdshot is not a valid self-defense round at any range... just the other day I got to talk to a gentleman who took a round of birdshot from a 12ga. to the upper thoracic cavity from 15'. He ended up making his own 911 call after the neighbor panicked and was unable to explain to the operator what was going on.

 

[jeremywills]

I hope this guy is ok, that sucks

So just what did happen if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

So just what did happen if you don't mind me asking?

Well I hate to tell other people's stories, especially when they didn't give me permission to tell them in a public forum. Suffice it to say, he is OK now though he did experience several years of surgery as a result of it.

 

[jeremywills]

No problem, Im glad he is alive, thats what is important.

 

[BloodyBucket03]

Rifle For Wifey

A great rifle for a lady is an M1 Carbine. I bought my wife a mint Inland M1 and it is a great and accurate shooter. I took my wife to the range and she is comfortable and confident with it. My wife too is Petite 4-11 and 115. She also likes the fact that it is not as loud as my AR. She fired my AR and seemed a little nervous.

 

[JShirley]

I like M1 Carbines. For HD, it would be a good idea to find some of the HP ammo (I believe Winchester makes it). .30 Carbine SP penetrates a good deal deeper than many might expect...

John