home defense shot gun

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captain awesome

captain awesome

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I apologize in advance for not searching thoroughly for a thread similar to this, but i have limited time right now. I have been debating on what the most effective home defense gun would be(I live in a decent neighborhood close to slummy areas, theft has been a problem more than once), semi auto pistols have crossed my mind, large cal revolvers, the 410/45lc bfr ran through it as well, and I concluded that a 12 gauge semi auto tactical style or with pistol grips loaded with 3" buck shot would be the most effective and devastating thing I could afford aside from illegal class3 conversions(which I really don't want any part of). So I looked around and found a couple from Charles Daly and Mossberg that caught my attention, relatively affordable, an small enough to be maneuverable. So any thoughts on these or some other possible suggestions? Do these guns feed and fire reliably? Anyone with experience with them or others, please put your input. Thanks in advance for any replies, I know its been a while since I've been messing around here, good to be back though!
 
wow, another one of these?


i'll at least acknowledge the "semi-auto with tactical style or pistol grips" being way off course. I'll take a pump any day. ANY day. Charles Daly folded. Good luck on warranty work if you buy one. The Mossberg 930 is a good gun by all account but can inherently NEVER match the reliability and simplicity of a pump.


An 18.5-20" barrelled, open or cylinder bore pump shotgun of YOUR choice (meaning one you've handled and inspected and deemed appropriate for yourself) is my recommendation. I also recommend sticking with what works. Most of that tactical stuff looks ok in the movies but wouldn't fly too far in a real life situation.

if you have access to a used gun marketplace, in general dont pay more than 350 for a used pump. the most trusted american 3 are the remington 870, mossberg 500/590 and the winchester 1300. an ithaca 37 is a venerable, but less common, 4th. i prefer the bead sight myself.


you should also check your facts. a class 3 conversion is by NO means illegal, especially in Arizona of all place. assuming you do it properly. it is however, probably a waste of money from a utility standpoint considering whats already available to us.
 
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If you have the $$$ get a FN SLP. Ohterwise a pump is a good choice. Between new/current production, the Mossberg 500/590 is more reliable than the 870 express. If you don't mind getting a gun made in China get the H&R Pardner Protector imported by Remington. It is a copy of the 870 and has an undeniable record of reliability. It will cost you about $200.00. As far as the pistol grip goes, to each his own - for sure it is less accurate but might be better in close quarters.
 
Awesome,

There is certainly nothing wrong with a semi-auto shotgun for defense.....just like there is nothing wrong with a semi-auto handgun for defense. I wouldn't use a gun that was not realible.....regardless of it being a single shot, bolt action, pump, semi-auto, double barrel....what ever. If it is reliable and I can put rounds on target with it, I'll use it.

You were given good advice regarding the FNH SLP semi-auto 12 gauge. I have the SLP Mark1 and it runs very nicely, digesting cheap Federal bird shot (good for practice on steel at 15 yards), buckshot, and slugs. Mine sees a steady diet of all three. Every time I pull the trigger, it goes bang. I'm not sure how much more reliabilty one needs. I've got a nice Benelli SuperNova pump and like it too, but the SLP will shoot circles around it....and in those stressful times, you don't have to worry about short stroking it either.

And for what it is worth, I'll be willing to bet that you will do better shooting 2 3/4" buckshot, especially when it comes to making a quick and accurate 2nd shot.

A shotgun with a full stock and extended pistol grip (similar to an AR-15) is liked by some folks. My shooting buddy has that configuration on his shotgun and really likes it. I prefer a stand full stock myself. I would not suggest you get a pistol grip only shotgun....ie., no full stock, just a pistol grip at the end of the receiver. They are difficult to shoot accurately, in my opinion and will not yet you fully realize the potential of what a 12 gauge can do with all types of rounds.
 
Most folks using a shotgun for defense will do best with one with a standard stock, a limited list of add ons and a big pile of empty hulls behind it.

A decent hand with the above is amazingly well protected.

Read the archives, there's oodles of stuff on this. And read the floater up top here on Fighting Shotguns....
 
Buy a maverick 88 which is made by mossberg. I bought one at academy for 189. Then you can spend a few bucks for a pistol grip and for around 300 bucks you could have a really nice home defense shotgun.
 
>acceptableusername:
Thank you for the advise, yes I already acknowledged that it is "another one of these" and apologized in advance for it, If it bothered you that much then don't reply, or send me a link to an existing one you know of. Yes it is legal to do a class 3 conversion but as I said "I can afford" which I definitely cannot "if done properly", and doing it illegally would not be as expensive or done properly hence making it illegal by not going through the proper channels and paying the fees. I know my facts thank you. Moving on,
Not really concerned with looks so much as ease of use and functionality. I don't want to have to try and move around the small spaces and corners of my home with my mossberg 835.
I am in total agreement with the fact that I don't want to miss even a split second in a life threatening situation with a short stroke, or even if it isn't short stroked the time it takes to pump. That why I am after a semi auto, because I just don't have that much faith in myself if I am nervous. You absolutely right acceptableusername, I want reliability.
Accuracy I don't believe is terribly important in this application, after all the farthest an intruder can even be away from me in my house is less than 20 feet. (likely they will be within 10')
AZ98,You are probably right about the 2 3/4" buckshot instead, thinking about it, I shot some 3 1/2"s a couple months ago, and it was pretty stiff, my shoulder was the next day too.
I am really liking the fnh slp, though it is a bit pricey. any other suggestions? All anyone said about charles daly was that they are out of business now? how about performance on them? if guarantee goes out, oh well, my loss. thanks everyone.
 
We have 3 home defense shotguns.
1 SxS coach gun, 1 mossberg pump, 1 benelli 121 M1 semi auto.
#1 priority... reliability.
#2 priority... shootability, NO PISTOL GRIPS.

You need to be able to control it and keep control of it.


Jim
 
Do yourself a favor and spend 3 minutes watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw . That's the promo for Clint Smith's defensive shotgun video. I'd suggest springing for the whole video as well, too. It's well worth the money.

Did you get that last line? "I don't need a thousand dollar shotgun- I need to know how to run the gun I got." There it is, in a nutshell.

It ISN'T the gun. It's the shooter. No one has yet figured out how to sell skill and competence packed in a cardboard box. That has to be developed on an individual basis. There is simply no real advantage in a semiauto over a pump, or vice versa. There is no speed advantage, there is no reliability advantage, there is no magazine capacity advantage. Given a shooter with one hand/arm disabled, there might be some advantage to a semi- but a pump can be run with one hand too if need be. It's all in having the mindset to keep fighting no matter what, and the skills to use in doing it.

Buy whatever shotgun you want, but don't make that purchase thinking you're going to be able to shortcut your individual skill-building process by buying a semiauto. It just ain't gonna happen.

fwiw,

lpl
 
Now there is some good advice (not surprising) from the Moderator. Example - take a SASS nut who shoots for hours and hours every week with a single action revolver and a "bad guy" (BG) who get a real nice Sig .45 ACP and shoots "gangster style" with little practice. The SASS guy with the "five shot" would likely smoke the BG 99 out of 100 times (Figure one lucky shot every now and then). Having said all that, I can't afford my beloved FN SLP right now so I got a $200.00 Pardner Protector. If you want a semi-auto for less $$$ get the Mossberg 930 (defense model) as suggested above or even the Stoeger 2000 (defense model) same internal system as the Benelli which owns Stoeger.
 
My first modern shotgun (circa 1981) was a Rem 870 Wingmaster magnum. That was my only shotgun until I found a used Rem 870 Wingmaster (non-magnum) 20 years later that I modified for clay games; then I found a third and a fourth.

One reason I like the 870 is because it's close enough to rock simple that even I can take one apart for cleaning, although it doesn't need cleaning nearly as much as a semi-auto which will be more difficult to disassemble and get back together right. Are you sure it's right? How you gonna check?

Practice. Shoot clay games (doubles) with a shotgun long enough and you'll find short-stroking is not that big an issue. It could be an issue if you don't practice, but if you don't practice it won't much matter what you choose.

I'd be much more concerned with ammo sensitivity. A gun for practice on a clay field (AA, light target ammo) and then for immediate use with defensive ammo (buckshot) is what I've got. The newer semi's are good regarding ammo, but they are not cheap.
 
No doubt I would absolutely be practicing with it plenty. i usually hit 23 or 24 out of 25 clay birds with my mossberg, so the love of shotgun shooting is definitely there. Anyone shot a Remington spr453 or baikal 153 (same gun apparently)? found some for very inexpensive, a little long for my taste in HD though....

great video btw, that guy firing that auto loader at the targets, that is why I want an auto loader.
 
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We have some semiauto shotguns suitable for defensive work here- a High Standard Model 10A, an FN SLP, an old Remington Model 11, an as-yet unconverted Saiga, a Browning Auto-5, a Mossberg 930, a Remington 1100 and an 11-87 too, a Benelli M1 Super 90 like the one in Clint's video but with a conventional stock.

Which one gets used in a defensive role here?

None of them.

We use a couple or three plain old Remington 870 pumpguns. They are Expresses, all were bought used, most cost $200 each or less when they were brought home. Sure, now they have shorter barrels, shorter stocks, better recoil pads, Sidesaddles, lights. I wouldn't sell one for $200 now.

I have nothing against semiautos. But they are not magic. Fighting shotgun guru Louis Awerbuck says the shotgun is a thinking man's weapon. So let's think about this process a little bit.

Inexpensive imported semiauto shotguns tend not to have great service life/reliability records, in my experience. The good imports tend to be more expensive, as do all good semiautos I know of. A good semiauto, new in the box, is going to cost twice as much as a good pumpgun, if not more. No way would I suggest buying any inexpensive semiauto for defensive use.

And you might have to cut the barrel down? Bad move on semi's, often enough. If they're gas operated, then gas ports may need adjusting to get them to run- and even then, they may be picky about ammo. Recoil operated guns tend to batter themselves if too much weight is taken off the barrels. I've never known anyone who sawed off an inertia gun, I don't know what happens with those- all of them I ever saw in use (Beretta 1201s, Benellis) used factory short barrels.

So... please think about it some more before you decide.

lpl
 
I have the Mossberg 500 Marine model and am happy with it. I lived in FL and felt stainless was the better choice. Also looked at the Rem 870 home defense but went with Mossberg.

Rather have a pump myself and not a lot of other options, it's a utility gun after all. I have a pistol grip for it but think that's a waste too. I paid under $400.

IM000802.jpg
 
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IMO, a good semiauto is that much more capable for a given level of shooter skill and familiarity with the platform, even a Pat Flannigan or Tom Knapp grade shotgunner is going to be faster running a semi than a pump.
 
I really like the standard capacity 20" barrel Remington 870 youth 20 gauge with #3 buckshot. Lower recoil and blast and similar stopping power.
 
IMO, a good semiauto is that much more capable for a given level of shooter skill and familiarity with the platform, even a Pat Flannigan or Tom Knapp grade shotgunner is going to be faster running a semi than a pump.
Click to expand...

How many shots are you going to need? It's a shotgun at semi close range, I doubt you'd need more then one shot. Just racking the slide is probably more then enough.
 
Now that post, Lee, is a classic and should be bookmarked.

Fighting shotgun guru Louis Awerbuck says the shotgun is a thinking man's weapon.
Click to expand...

I don't have a sig yet, but that just made the short list. My sense is that a pump is to an auto as a wheelgun is to a pistol. Simpler is better. You want it to work. As I've been shaking out the Mossberg 500, it's getting smoother, the feeding and ejecting are getting into a rhythm, and I can see that this brute and I are just getting to know each other. From the schematics, and the breakdown tutorial on youtube, it's clear that this is a basic, simple weapon and when the chips are down and your number has come up, you want simple and reliable.
 
Mossberg 500 or 590 or a Remington 870, either with an 18.5 inch barrel in 12 gauge with a straight stock. Recoil pad makes sense so you will be more inclined to practice.

Load it with reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 buckshot. Plenty of firepower and it will encourage practice.

If lots of people around you may want to consider #4 buckshot.

Stick to 2 3/4 inch shells. We are talking home defense not goose hunting.
 
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