Home invaded - by civil servants!

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one45auto

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I live in a townhouse condominium with one neighbor above me. This neighbor recently rented out her unit and the tenant called the local cable company to install high speed internet access to her son's bedroom. However the installer, while manuvering through the crawlspace above the ceiling, lost his footing and fell through - rupturing the feeder pipe for the sprinkler system and flooding the unit. Believe it or not all of this happened only moments after I'd left.

Needless to say within minutes the house was awash and the panicked tenants called the local fire department to shut off the water since only they have access to the building main. Dutifully they showed up, shut off the water supply for the sprinkler system and deactivated the fire alarm, which no doubt had gone off in every unit in the building as a result of the loss of pressure in the pipes.

So far so good, right? Wrong. Here's where it gets upsetting.

The firefighters examined the unit and then briefly assisted the tenants in bailing out some of the water before taking it upon themselves to examine my home for water damage. Getting no response, and unable to effect an entrance via the front door (good first layer security comes in handy!), they used the truck ladder to force an entry through a second floor window - bending out my screen, twisting the venetian blinds, knocking over a lamp, and shoving an arm chair aside. They then proceeded to tromp through my house with wet boots and added insult to injury by opening the circuit panel and shutting off power to most of the house, including the kitchen. In the process my answering machine lost power, causing me to lose several important messages along with the corresponding telephone numbers.

Of course all this was unknown to me, in fact I had no idea that anything untoward had occurred until the following morning when I returned home and found a hastily scrawled note (filled with misspelled words) afixed to my front door informing me (and presumably any criminal who happened to stroll by) that they'd entered via the second floor window. So for over twelve hours it had been painfully evident to anyone passing by my front door that not only was I absent, but that my upstairs window was currently an easy means of entry should they care to avail themselves of the opportunity. :banghead:

The geniuses had also shown their incredible mental accumen by placing plastic sheeting over the already existing water damage, presumably to ensure that it didn't dry quickly, because the sheeting was dry on top and no additional water had accumulated. Nice going, fellas. :fire:

The food in my refridgerator was thoroughly thawed and the containers of ice cream I'd bought were now fit to be consumed using straws. My circuit panel was left open, my living room was a mess, my bedroom doors were open, and my house cat was cowering underneath the sofa. (Fortunately she'd been too scared to flee, otherwise the morons might have allowed her to get out of the house and she has no collar)

Needless to say I was absolutely livid and ready to put my foot up someone's rear end. In actuality I was more upset over the intrusion than I was the water damage. I felt completely violated, as though my privacy had been invaded - especially since I'd been writing bills the previous afternoon and had left my checkbook, bills, bank statements, and other personal documents out on the dining room table. (Who would think of having to hide such things in your own home?) God only knows how many of the civil personnel had tromped through my house or even how long they'd lingered in pursuit of their so-called "examination."

I immediately checked to ensure that all my firearms were present and accounted for and then spent an hour or so checking to see if anything were missing or out of place, as well as assessing the damage. As soon as 9:00am rolled around I dialed the headquarters for the fire department and worked my way up the chain of command until I spoke to someone in authority. I demanded to know not only who had authorized the entry into my home but by what legal statute they'd presumed to do so. I wanted to know precisely under what conditions they could legally force entry into a private residence and was told that they could enter if they felt there was a "problem."

A problem!? What kind of problem, exactly? Who defines what a "problem" is, or is that a blanket "probable cause" definition designed as a one-size-fits-all entry permit for whenever they darned well please? No one's life was in danger, nor was the building on fire. Since when did firemen suddenly become experts in plumbing? Just what were they going to do but stare at the dripping water anyway? Curiously he didn't have an answer so readily available then.

Now I'm sure to be set ablaze by flamers, especially those amongst the civil service fraternity, but I verbally tore that representative a new rectal sphincter. Although I'm unlikely to get it, I'd ideally love to have someone's job over this because it would certainly go a long way towards easing the sense of violation I'm still feeling. Apart from the fact that nothing was stolen (at least insofar as I can tell, because the jury is still out as I monitor my credit card transactions carefully) the feeling is exactly like that of having been burglarized. I was well prepared against ordinary theives but never dreamed that my home would be invaded by firefighters supposedly acting under the law.

I'm due to receive a full report from the aforementioned Chief on Monday, at which point I'm considering contacting my attorney to see if I can pursue the matter legally because a mere apology isn't going to return the sense of privacy they took from me. It's not going to ease the sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach knowing that total strangers were roaming at will through my property without my knowledge or consent and doing God only knows what. :fire:

My opinion of the profession is extremely low at the moment... :cuss:

So be forewarned, criminals aren't the only ones you might find breaking into your homes.
 
Do you rent or own currently?
If it is a rental property then the owner of the property can authorize the PD/FD/Dog Catcher to enter the property under the circumstances that you described. If you own, then thats another story and I'd be talking to my attorney first thing
 
about twenty years ago

the NYFD responded to a fire in my apt building -there was only minimal smoke damage to my place,they broke the door down,which was cool with me as I could have been sleeping. my place was fine,it was obvious to any onlooker that I was extremely poor,they took my Marilyn Monroe picture anyway ,a real cool black and white print that I've never come across since :(
a month later they were busted in a sting operation,some of them feel obliged to take whatever they feel like on a call thinking that we will think it burned up :fire:
I hope you get restitution and an apology
 
I am not on anyones side in this but they(fire dept) did the right thing. If the residence above you had the leak, the water will definetly leak down to your residence creating a fire hazard if it reaches any electrical box inside the walls or other appliance(tv,refer,computer). That is why they killed the power. Also the water could snuff out pilot lights on ranges and furnaces which could then leak gas. There also could possibly be a person or animal in the residence either sleeping, or unable to walk or possibly already electricuted from the leaking water. The fire dept was called because the sprinkler line broke and fire alarm went off. They have presedence over police in this matter until the area is made safe. As stupid as it sounds, If you had an alarm system, the alarm agency would have notified you of a problem via cell phone if they had the #.
In most residential fires in my area (even small kitchen fires) the power is cut at the pole before any water is applied to the fire to prevent electrocution of firemen. It is not re-energized for many hours, sometimes days, until outlets have dried and an electrical and building inspector has inspected for safety. So you are not the only one with melted Ice-cream. As for leaving your checks and credit card statements out in the open, that is up to you but it would be a big privacy wake-up for me.
 
I am an experienced volunteer firefighter and I question their entry and their carelessness. Given the situation you describe, my concerns would be for electrical or gas hazards in your dwelling caused by the water. I still would not enter your dwelling because in the civilized world we have codes that require electric and gas to have a shut off outside the building for just such an emergency. Most of the time we pull the electric meter and shut of the gas.

Let's assume it is necessary to force entry into your property. In Pa., I am authorized to do this if reasonably necessary to address the emergency I am responding to. However, once I force entry, I am responsible to exercise due diligence in safeguarding your property. I cannot abandon the property after making entry. Usually we turn the property over to the PD who will maintain watch or have the building secured. We will also make every effort to locate you and turn the property directly over to you.

Having decided to enter the dwelling, I would have followed a protocal for making entry. First you try the doors, you'd be suprised how many are unlocked. Next you check for an unsecured window. Next you select an entry point that will cause the least damage. Generally that is a ground floor window, it's cheaper to fix than a solid door. If I splinter your steel door and frame instead of opening an unsecured window, I'm liable for the door damage.

I am a public servant both professionally and as a volunteer. I do not fault the citizen for complaining about poor service. I fully realize that we are imperfect like any profession and have people among us who do stupid and careless things. I will not flame you for pointing out the unprofessional conduct of my peers. I will ask that you not let this experience tarnish the reputation of most public servants who do their best to protect and serve.
 
Instead of trying to argue with you about how this will ultimately end I’ll just wish you good luck trying to win any type of legal remedy out of this.

If courts did not give emergency personnel especially FD and EMS greater flexibility to enter dwellings when less facts are known about the true nature of an emergency which may be occurring inside, due to the urgent nature of the types of emergency calls they normally answer, and they held them accountable in ways where you could sue them blindly and w/o substantial merit. Then you nor anyone on this board could not afford any type of fire insurance because the cost would be comical, thanks to folks who made the fire service a very undesirable profession, because people would be sued silly once they did something which was more or less in good faith yet had the snot sued out of them.

Stuff like this comes up all the time from people who are so quick to pull the trigger on a lawsuit and they always go nowhere.

Firefighters have very little to no legal training and I hope everyone here understands that, they do not need probable cause or any other fancy legal designation to justify their actions as a cop would. Infact because they are not officers of the court and in that regard they are held to the same standard a civilian would be who believed an emergency existed and forced entry only to discover there was none.

As long as their actions were in good faith, meaning they believed they needed to force entry to help whomever may be inside or determine if a true emergency did exist this case would never make it beyond a preliminary hearing if civil or the D/A’s desk if criminal.

The only thing the courts will ask is, was there a good reason the FD was their, in your case yes, there was a call for service.

Did they have a reason to believe an emergency existed or a potential hazard to public safety, in you cares yes, by your very own post you state the “emergency†was in the dwelling connected to yours directly above your residence and involved flooding which could create problems with floors and ceilings giving way. Not to mention electrical problems to include fire hazards or possible electrocution.

You were just a victim of life’s little lottery, same lottery you play everytime you wake up and go out into the world each day.

:(
 
My friend had a NYC Fire Fighter come through his window one day. No fire in his Apt or anything, he was just minding his own business and BOOM firefighter in his place.
 
I think your best course of legal action is a lawsuit to the Cable company to recover all damages. Of course all need to be named in the suit.

Yep. The root cause of the problem was the "installer," who probably wasn't qualified to install hamburgers in wrappers.
 
Wether it was justified or not, I've seen lots of cop bashing, but this is the first fireman bashing thread I've seen. :confused:
 
It's probably pretty common knowledge that I am not a big fan of "authority" but really, it's hard to blame these guys for much. Under the circumstances I don't see much they could have done differently. And whether it worked or not that plastic was certainly there to try and preserve your stuff. They did the best they could. If I were considering suing anyone it would be the cable company and that dweeb of an installer.

Oh, and whomever made the comment about leaving bills on your own table, come on man! :confused:
 
how mad would you have been if they didnt go in, and then sometime during the 12 hours that you were away an electrical fire had broke out and you lost everything? or a gas explosion occured causing you to lose everything? Or if you had been unconcsious in there at the time?

I can think of a whole host of reasons why they did right.
 
I agree with FedWeasel. They were not scoping out your home trying to sneak a peek at your dirty laundry, they were checking to make sure all potential problems associated with the emergency that took place directly above you were subjugated. The cable co. caused the problem, the firemen were there to help solve it. Bum deal though.
 
Fire Fighters

A friend of ours is the Chief in White Plains, NY. He tells a story of a woman, expecting dinner guests, has Sterno lit under the chafing dishes. At the last minute, she needs something, heads out to the store.
A passing PO sees fire through window. Buzzes apt. no response, calls FD. They breach door, guy sees the situation, no fire, picks up the can of Sterno. Well, guess what? Its HOT, he drops it and it sets the draperies on fire. Well, now they have a fire, so they hose it down. Woman arrives back at her house to find it vandalized by FD, dinner guests on final approach, she goes postal on FD, PD clubs and arrests her. Fortunately for her, NY has very restrictive handgun laws.
 
There are so many aspects and facets to this - but needless to say - in sympathies department - I feel for one45auto - it is grim to say least. He has my utmost empathy.

As for the various ''justification'' aspects - that is open to much interpretation depending what angle you view it all. I'd bet this could be argued from now until next Christmas - with all the opinions, laws, etc. Keep it THR tho folks - there is much here to get people's panties potentially bunched!

I do tho hope the root cause - Cable guy - is for real and his company insured because that is where financial redress will have to come from.

Good luck.
 
In my opinion, the firefighters were doing their jobs to some significant extent. I can't fault them for entering, as there was a possibility that something had already shorted out by the time they arrived. Even if they shut off power to the entire block externally, an electrical fire could have already been smoldering anywhere in your house. Fires don't always spring up immediately, so they were performing their jobs to the best of their ability by entering your house and inspecting it for imminent fire threats.

I suspect that they hit your breakers in order to allow other units to come back up. I didn't notice anything in your post about them shutting off power to multiple units, but they might have shut you off separately because you were not there to thoroughly inspect your electronic devices for electrical problems. I know it's annoying beyond belief, but it sounds to me as though they had your best interests, the interests of your neighbors, and the interests of everybody on the block in mind when they cut your power. That is what they exist for.

As for their other conduct... I'm going to go with careless rather than negligently or intentionally destructive. I doubt that they went in just to pitch your stuff around, and I suspect that they were exercising an appropriate level of caution in moving furniture around to get in. I'm sorry about the wet boot prints, but if they're inspecting your home for a fire, it's an immediate threat that they need to extinguish right away. Carpet will dry, but the television, the adjacent drapes, the couch, and so on will not un-burn. They also probably had to do this in other units, so they were in a rush. They broke in the window and checked the joint out as fast as they could. They disturbed the place in the process, but that just happens. Maybe they could have been more careful, but maybe not.

As for cleaning up afterward, it is hard to gauge just how much effort they should have put into it. Ideally, they would pick up everything they knocked over, scrub out the carpet, and call a contractor out to replace your window. I'm sure they would love to deliver that kind of satisfaction to every customer. The problem is that other fires are way more important than your lamp. They may have immediately had another call. They may have been in the middle of straigtening up when another one came in. They may have been ordered out of the unit while trying to clean up because their commander is worried that one of them is stealing stuff.

I agree with everybody else who said to go after the cable company. They caused the problem, and should make restitution. I would demand a new window, a visit from the carpet cleaning guys, and some bucks to cover the loss in your fridge. I don't think you would be out of line taking them to court if they fail to meet reasonable demands.
 
Wether it was justified or not, I've seen lots of cop bashing, but this is the first fireman bashing thread I've seen.

This doesn't seem much like fireman bashing. He's specifically complaining about specific behavior which was unreasonable.

Gas and water can be turned off from outside in anything approaching modern construction. They did not need to enter to turn them off.

This was a water leak, not a fire. There isn't reason to expect that people were in iminate danger of drowning if they didn't enter his home, and fireman should be very hesitent to force entry to someone's home unless there's a clear sign of danger.

Entering his home appears to have been a mistake on thier part, not an act of malice, but a mistake.

They severely compounded that mistake by leaving his property unsecured and leaving a not on the door announcing that fact. That was negligence on their part.

Firemen do need to be able to enter private property in order to do their jobs and protect the public. However, when doing so they are accepting responsibility that the property is secured until the owner arrives.

He could have easily lost his pet and valuable property due to their negligence. That fire department needs to take a serious look at their procedures and make sure this doesn't happen again.
 
Of course anytime you dare to question our civil servants you bring the wrath of God down on you, as though those occupations are somehow above reproach and their integrity beyond question. The plain fact is that they're human beings, and as such not all of them are going to have the best of intentions. Absent of latent psychic ability, or a magic wand, there's no way to accurately gauge the honesty of each and every one. Priests have molested choir boys, security guards have stolen from the buildings they were hired to protect, nurses have murdered patients, and in Washington, D.C. many years ago several police officers were found to have hired themselves out as contract killers to local drug lords. So before anyone labels me a crybaby perhaps they should think twice. What if it were your home, your property, your valuables? It's always different on the outside looking in but believe me, the feeling is no different than having been burglarized and if and when you're ever in the same situation you won't like it.
 
Um, I cannot gauge their intentions, but when firefighters go to the Dark Side they tend to start fires , not read your bills or track up the carpet.

If this was the worst they did, you musta got just the semi-evil ones ;)
 
OK. Now you're just over the top into rediculous. :rolleyes:

You really are a crybaby.

Could they have done it differently? More then likely. Could they have been more careful? Perhaps. Was it necessary? In hindsight, apparently not.

However, now your lumping in their actions with corrupt cops, child molesting priests, thieving employees, and contract killers.

I'm terrible sorry that things went wonky in the world and your perfect little piece of heaven was jolted by the experience.

It's obviously time to call you a whambulance.
 
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