I dunno, have ya seen the mess an ambulance crew can leave behind? Rubber gloves hanging from the chandelier, bandage wrappers everywhere, IV start kits stuck to walls, puddles of blood and grey matter, and careful of the defibrilator paddle goop, its slippery.........
Home invaded - by civil servants!
- Thread starter one45auto
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Brian Dale
Member
one45,
Looking for stuff to steal, or just curious? Typically, they just don't have time for that.
Leaving your place unsecured? That's just plain wrong, and no two ways about it.
Gunsnrovers, take it easy, 'kay?
... and as such, they don't always make the right call on what course of action is best, either. Tromping through your house: from what you've written, that isn't the way we would have done it when I was a volunteer FF, but I wasn't there and I don't know what hazardous conditions they might have been looking for.
Looking for stuff to steal, or just curious? Typically, they just don't have time for that.
Leaving your place unsecured? That's just plain wrong, and no two ways about it.
Gunsnrovers, take it easy, 'kay?
sturmruger
Member
I hope you don't ever have a fire, because you are probably on the FD's excrement list.
one45auto
Member
Well they're on mine so fair's fair. Besides, I'm insured.
As for Gunsnrovers comments, it's only to be expected. To those among us who believe the Eleventh Commandment is "Thou shalt not question civil authority" I must seem a bit outlandish. After all, how dare I utter such blasphemy! It's hersey! Bring on the stones!
Sheesh....just because he doesn't value his privacy as highly.
I will say this though, for a smart@ss his post was rather humorous.
billwiese
Member
your HOA may have allowed mgmt to authorize firemen to enter...
I'm in a condo/townhouse too.
The firemen may well have been authorized by your homeowner's association & its management.
Actually, you might not have a beef w/fire dept, but with HOA. And you might not have standing there if you read your condo agreement paperwork, CC&Rs, etc. when you signed when bought your place - though the description of leaving things unlocked/open is indeed horrifying (that may allow negligence charges...)
Since you mentioned 'condo' as part of your home's description, your townhouse/condo is most likely part of a homeowner's association (HOA), a "common interest" organization. [Some freestanding non-attached 'townhomes' are in slightly different form of "PUD" ownership. There, you own the structure, responsible for its repair, etc. just like a house but HOA is for groundskeeping, maintaining standards, etc. Usu these sorts of of HOA fees are far lower than regular condo fees since you have to take care of the townhome maintenance, insurance, etc. yourself.] But if your paperwork describes "condominium" ownership, then what I'm writing here generally applies; laws vary from state to state but are generally similar.
Again, read your CC&Rs and the paperwork you signed when you bought it.
Laws vary from state to state, and there are probably oddball properties around, but even though you "own" the condo, you really don't ! ! ! It's not quite like owning a home.
Instead, you do own the right to exclusively occupy/use the unit. A common statement describing condo owners is that they own "from the paint inwards". [And in many condos/townhomes, patios and yards and even garages sometimes are called 'exclusive use common areas' which allows some HOA control, so folks' patios don't become old tire repositories.]
But if there are 200 condos/townhomes in your development, I'm pretty sure your paperwork says something akin to "you own 1/200 undivided interest in XYZ Townhomes", with exclusive right to use Unit #X". That means you own a share of the project, with valuation the price you paid for your unit +/- market factors since time you bought.
You don't actually own Unit #X: the building and structure are, in fact, owned by the HOA! This is why the HOA has insurance on the structure, and you just have "condo insurance" which is much like renter's insurance - just protects the interior stuff.
As such, it's in the "common interest" of the developement [and the development owns the structure(s) itself] to repair, stop imminent danger to their property, etc. They'd be risking other people's joint shares NOT to do this. I would bet that there's indeed something like an 'emergency circumstances' clause in your paperwork/contract, etc that allows supervised intrusion to your condo/townhouse "in the event of emergency". Probably also something in there that you "hold harmless" your HOA.
HOA disputes can be very nasty. Also if there are suits against HOA and/or builder it can trigger red flags for future purchasers. A suit against your HOA could, in fact, at least temporarily reduce your and your neighbor's property values and reduce the number of folks that would want to buy a unit - condo complexes under litigation often signal 'danger' to buyers who want troublefree ownership - after all that's one reason why they bought a condo, not a house.
Someday, this will really come up in court for a criminal case. Some exigency will allow HOA to "open" a townhouse/condo, and LEOs can come in on a pretext - the LEOs will not have broken/entered w/o warrant because the HOA let them in.
And you may have signed your rights away to sue HOA when you bought the place.
Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
I'm in a condo/townhouse too.
The firemen may well have been authorized by your homeowner's association & its management.
Actually, you might not have a beef w/fire dept, but with HOA. And you might not have standing there if you read your condo agreement paperwork, CC&Rs, etc. when you signed when bought your place - though the description of leaving things unlocked/open is indeed horrifying (that may allow negligence charges...)
Since you mentioned 'condo' as part of your home's description, your townhouse/condo is most likely part of a homeowner's association (HOA), a "common interest" organization. [Some freestanding non-attached 'townhomes' are in slightly different form of "PUD" ownership. There, you own the structure, responsible for its repair, etc. just like a house but HOA is for groundskeeping, maintaining standards, etc. Usu these sorts of of HOA fees are far lower than regular condo fees since you have to take care of the townhome maintenance, insurance, etc. yourself.] But if your paperwork describes "condominium" ownership, then what I'm writing here generally applies; laws vary from state to state but are generally similar.
Again, read your CC&Rs and the paperwork you signed when you bought it.
Laws vary from state to state, and there are probably oddball properties around, but even though you "own" the condo, you really don't ! ! ! It's not quite like owning a home.
Instead, you do own the right to exclusively occupy/use the unit. A common statement describing condo owners is that they own "from the paint inwards". [And in many condos/townhomes, patios and yards and even garages sometimes are called 'exclusive use common areas' which allows some HOA control, so folks' patios don't become old tire repositories.]
But if there are 200 condos/townhomes in your development, I'm pretty sure your paperwork says something akin to "you own 1/200 undivided interest in XYZ Townhomes", with exclusive right to use Unit #X". That means you own a share of the project, with valuation the price you paid for your unit +/- market factors since time you bought.
You don't actually own Unit #X: the building and structure are, in fact, owned by the HOA! This is why the HOA has insurance on the structure, and you just have "condo insurance" which is much like renter's insurance - just protects the interior stuff.
As such, it's in the "common interest" of the developement [and the development owns the structure(s) itself] to repair, stop imminent danger to their property, etc. They'd be risking other people's joint shares NOT to do this. I would bet that there's indeed something like an 'emergency circumstances' clause in your paperwork/contract, etc that allows supervised intrusion to your condo/townhouse "in the event of emergency". Probably also something in there that you "hold harmless" your HOA.
HOA disputes can be very nasty. Also if there are suits against HOA and/or builder it can trigger red flags for future purchasers. A suit against your HOA could, in fact, at least temporarily reduce your and your neighbor's property values and reduce the number of folks that would want to buy a unit - condo complexes under litigation often signal 'danger' to buyers who want troublefree ownership - after all that's one reason why they bought a condo, not a house.
Someday, this will really come up in court for a criminal case. Some exigency will allow HOA to "open" a townhouse/condo, and LEOs can come in on a pretext - the LEOs will not have broken/entered w/o warrant because the HOA let them in.
And you may have signed your rights away to sue HOA when you bought the place.
Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
jnojr
Member
I don't think one45auto is a crybaby at all. This wasn't a fire, where there might have been smoldering embers down in his unit. Once the water was off, any damage was already done, and no more was going to occur. What does anyone get out of the fire department breaking into his house and "inspecting" water damage that they aren't going to do a damn thing about anyway?
I am a huge believer in and supporter of public servants like the fire department and police. I thank God every day that they're willing to risk their lives to help others. But, in this case, the ball was dropped. FD had no business going into his place, and they should give him a written apology at the least, and really should pay for the screen and anything else that they damaged outside of what was damaged by the water.
I am a huge believer in and supporter of public servants like the fire department and police. I thank God every day that they're willing to risk their lives to help others. But, in this case, the ball was dropped. FD had no business going into his place, and they should give him a written apology at the least, and really should pay for the screen and anything else that they damaged outside of what was damaged by the water.
Maybe you should establish a relationship with a couple of your neighbors so they can call you if there is ever another emergency. My neighbors have a cell phone number where they can reach me if there's ever a real problem.
Also, the Cable company should have insurance, so you need to pursue a GL claim against them.
As for the fire department, I think it would have been a non issue if you had a neighbor who would have contacted you when the problem occured.
Also, the Cable company should have insurance, so you need to pursue a GL claim against them.
As for the fire department, I think it would have been a non issue if you had a neighbor who would have contacted you when the problem occured.
Gunsnrovers
Member
Question authority? I have no issue with that. Your over the top statements putting your situation with the local FD into the same category as child molesting priests and cops turned hit-men is the problem. On the worst day, the situation as you describe it is no where near in the same category.
I find your indignation humorous. If you had come back and told us a story about the situation and how you were having to fight the FD, your HOA, and the cable compant to recoup loses, I can see going down that road. So far all I see are a few posts crying about wet carpet, bad ice cream, and a note on your door annoucing you were gone all day (perhaps of similar value to a thief as the note that UPS, Fed-Ex, DHL, etc leaves when no one is home to accept a package?). Have you even attempted to contact any or the above or your insurance carrier?
As for leaving the house unsecured? Give me a break. Gaining access via 2nd story window is NOT the same as leaving the front door open.
This is the High Road? Sounds more like "The enablers"
I find your indignation humorous. If you had come back and told us a story about the situation and how you were having to fight the FD, your HOA, and the cable compant to recoup loses, I can see going down that road. So far all I see are a few posts crying about wet carpet, bad ice cream, and a note on your door annoucing you were gone all day (perhaps of similar value to a thief as the note that UPS, Fed-Ex, DHL, etc leaves when no one is home to accept a package?). Have you even attempted to contact any or the above or your insurance carrier?
As for leaving the house unsecured? Give me a break. Gaining access via 2nd story window is NOT the same as leaving the front door open.
This is the High Road? Sounds more like "The enablers"
SLCDave
Member
Have you contacted the cable company? Let's pray, for your sake, that it was an employee of the cable company, and not a subcontractor. My Bro-In-Law worked for a guy that subcontracted installation for the local cable co. He nicked a water pipe in the wall while drilling a hole to run the cable through, and caused some damage. His boss had let the insurance lapse, and he got stuck with the repair bill. He felt bad and took out a loan to cover the repairs to the pipe, sheet rock, etc., but you can see the trouble I'm getting at.
Sergeant Bob
Member
Gunsnrovers
Don't forget the fact that the RBT's (Rubber Booted Thugs) moved a chair, left his circuit breaker panel open, and FRIGHTENED HIS CAT!!!!
Don't forget the fact that the RBT's (Rubber Booted Thugs) moved a chair, left his circuit breaker panel open, and FRIGHTENED HIS CAT!!!!
Gunsnrovers
Member
Aww. Poor TechBrute. Am I not your favorite person today? KMA.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
This thread is seeming like 95% done to me!! 
Correction - sorry -100%
Correction - sorry -100%
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