Home invasions and gun safes

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valnar

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Two separate questions, but I couldn't get them in the thread title.

I don't besmirch anyone who keeps multiple guns handy around the house in case of a break-in, nor do I think it is a bad idea (its not) to have a RSC or safe to house all your firearms in case of burglary, whether you are home or not.

Despite all this preparation for the worst though, I wanted to ask these questions.

#1 How many people on this forum, reading this very thread, have had to use deadly force to protect yourself or loved ones from an intruder?

#2. How many of you have had your guns stolen by somebody who has broken into your RSC or Safe? I've seen some random posts of people losing their firearms to burglars, but not when they've been in a safe. In other words, has anyone been hit by a professional burglar, not a snatch-and-grab thief?

I've read about a few documented cases where concealed carry was useful and saved a life, but I don't recall any posts about legitimate home invasions - or somebody getting their safe cracked and guns getting stolen.

Just curious.
 
A friend's family had a bunch of guns stolen out of their high dollar Browning a few years ago. The thieves were a family. Mark, the father had done various work around the house including helping to move the RSC in. I knew Mark from my job in law enforcement. He was a convicted felon and abuser of drugs.

One time when he knew the house would be empty while the family was on vacation he enlisted the help of his son and daughter. They broke into the house and stayed there for over 24 hours while they searched for the paperwork that came with the Browning. They finally found it, got the combination, and proceeded to make off with most of the collection. The collection was then traded to drug dealers and most of it was never recovered.

Mark - Burglary 2nd - 15 year straight sentence.
Mark Jr. - Burglary 2nd - 15 years suspended upon 10 years and 3 years probation.
Crystal - Accessory after the fact to a felony - slap on the wrist.

Just something to keep in mind. I changed the combination on my RSC as soon as I got it and it has never been written down anywhere. Obviously, if the crooks have over a day to look for it then they also have plenty of time to break into it. Just don't leave the combination anywhere obvious.
 
When we had the kids still living here it was obviously different than now.
Any "plan" for keeping guns safe and available begins with teaching the kids about guns.
My kids knew the power of and the danger of guns at a very early age. They knew Dad's guns were not toys. They respected them by age 3 or 4. Teach your children.
They all had "their own" gun by age 5. Single shot .22 short. Dad kept their gun in the safe. But I found with the first one (now 30) they had no interest in any of my guns as they already had their gun. We went shooting, hunting, fishing a lot. They tell me now it is some of their fondest memories. Both my kids are girls by the way.

From there I had loaded guns with safety on and an empty chamber in my night stand. I had a loaded shotgun in the master bedroom closet on safe and no round in the chamber.

Today I have more guns around the house. In the living room, kitchen, study etc. We live way out in the country.

I now have the Grandsons. They have been raised and trained as I described above.
We have never had any instance of gun handling or curiosity issues here.

I have never had any guns stolen. Tools, cattle yes. Guns. No.
 
Fella's;

Not me, both questions. But then my safe is a safe not an RSC. And the only gun that's not in it is on me.

900F
 
A hint for a newbie perhaps? What is an RSC?
I have a home in a nice up-market neighborhood but keep all handguns locked in a small safe, the house has an alarm system, and there are video cameras that monitor the outside and blast motion-based updates to my phone and computer.
Just seems like a good thing to do. Removing either temptation from guests or availability from BG's.
I am curious though for any Californian's to comment. I have a Sentry-brand small safe. Probably need to upgrade for more space, but for now it is not clear whether this safe is a CA-approved-for-guns safe. What makes it approved versus not approved?
B
 
If you go over to Uzitalk, there is a thread by a member whose safe full of NFA items was stolen last month - half a ton of safe and guns hauled off by well-prepared thieves.

Unfortunately, safes do get taken, or broken into. All it takes is enough time to do so.

To answer the other question, I have not. I have a couple of friends and a relative who have had to use deadly force if you mean actually shooting an intruder. I know a surprising amount of people who have used a firearm to deter or detain a criminal without firing a shot.

I used to say about riding a motorcycle that it's not a question of if you are going to have a wreck, it's a matter of when. I know enough instances of people I know having to defend themselves and their home that I feel the same about self-defense. It's not a matter of if, but when.

I realize most people will never draw a gun in defense, but the law of averages says it's going to happen to someone, which might just be me. I keep a gun handy and take what precautions I can.
 
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B!ngo,
I always wanted to get into a setup like that. I have a few Axis IP cameras now, but they are not integrated into anything that drops me texts or emails with motion sensors.

PM me if you are interested in bragging about your setup. I want to do something similar.
 
Broken into once about 25 years ago, alarm sounded and PD responded. Kids ran off, no guns taken. I have a top of the line Browning door sunk into the house foundation with lots of steel plate welded up to make a walk-in safe room, with central station monitored alarm and wireless backup so I feel pretty secure. Plus I have nosey neighbors. :scrutiny:

If you don't have a monitored alarm, the safe is just something to slow down a thief. If you don't have wireless backup, the alarm system is useless if a somewhat knowledgable thief attacks the system. Got a simple RSC? Gimme a 4-wheel dollie and it's mine.
 
I am curious though for any Californian's to comment. I have a Sentry-brand small safe. Probably need to upgrade for more space, but for now it is not clear whether this safe is a CA-approved-for-guns safe. What makes it approved versus not approved?
B
Click to expand...
California's concern for 'approval' is strictly limited to time-of-purchase.

See this link to the state web page: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist

Then read this part of the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/B...arms_in_California#Locks.2C_Safes.2C_and_Laws
 
B!ngo;

There is no law that I know of that mandates what may, or may not, be sold and called a safe. However, U.L. does differentiate. A box rated as an RSC is supposed to be burglar resistant to one person, using only muscle-powered tools, with no lever length exceeding 18 inches, for five whole minutes. These containers almost always use sheet metal as the exterior body material.

A U.L. rated safe, at the B level, has as a minimum, 1/4 inch plate steel on all six sides. Most reputable manufacturers easily beat that build standard.

True safes cost more than RSC's. But, generally speaking, you get what you pay for.

900F
 
I wanted to provide the link because everyone needs to get serious as a hear attack about their security, and that does not mean keep a loaded gun handy. Harden the layers, as they say.
Click to expand...

Yep. Any thief with half a brain and a little skill or experience isn't going to intrude on you while you are at home. He or she will certainly strike when you aren't though.
 
If I might ask as a tangential question to this: for you guys that bolt down your safes, how much good is it doing on a home with a crawl space? Seems like all it would take in that case would be for someone to run under the house and cut the bolts off.
 
If I might ask as a tangential question to this: for you guys that bolt down your safes, how much good is it doing on a home with a crawl space? Seems like all it would take in that case would be for someone to run under the house and cut the bolts off.
Click to expand...

Lag bolts into the joists. Big ones.
 
If I might ask as a tangential question to this: for you guys that bolt down your safes, how much good is it doing on a home with a crawl space? Seems like all it would take in that case would be for someone to run under the house and cut the bolts off.
Click to expand...
Lag bolts into the joists. Big ones.
Click to expand...

Yep. Once again, anything that slows them down works in your favor. Just about anything can be defeated, but it's a question of time. Some thieves won't stay around for very long, figuring they risk getting caught the longer they are there. So, buying time is a good thing - time for your alarm to work, time for the neighbors to see something suspicious, time for the cops to get there, and so on.

I'd also suggest you participate in neighborhood watch programs, be friendly with neighbors and make sure they know how to contact you or what would be strange behavior on your property.

Cameras, alarms, and lojacks are also options you should look into.
 
My question is are people who get their guns stolen targeted because they have guns? Like just the gun safe was broken into? Or was it a general robbery and the thief stole the TV, the Xbox, and guns? I wonder if having a gun at your home makes you a higher risk for robbery when you're not around. Obviously if somebody knows that you have a gun, they're probably not going to go around when you're home. But I would imagine it would be a very tempting target if you're gone and they know that there is a safe full of guns.
 
Over half the homes in America have guns in them, so the odds are with the BG's.
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True, but the spread is not even between all the states. Someone targeting guns in NYC or Chicago will have a harder time finding some than Texas.

I live in a low-risk area since I'm surrounded by gun-fearing liberals, but if people knew I had guns, it would be like a beacon light compared to my neighbors.
 
Never fired in self-defense..


But, I do have break-in experience.


Back in my apartment-living days, I had no safe. But, I did have a very good hiding place. IF you didn't know about it, you'd never figure it out. Everything I had at the time would fit there, and that's where it all lived. No one but myself knew about it.


My apartment was targeted, and the reason I believe this is because there was just too many coincidences for it to be truly "random".


I was in the process of building a CETME/HK91 clone rifle, and had a big box shipment from ptr91.com. The box itself was not marked, but the return address showed ptr91.com. Go to their website, and the first thing you see is a PTR rifle. Not hard to figure out what might be in a large box. Packages were delivered to the office, where they would stay until the resident could come pick them up. My package stayed in the office for about a week, due to me not being able to pick it up when the office was open, giving any of the office workers plenty of time to see the box, and see what might be in it. Finally, on a sunday, I went and go it.


Monday night, when I came home from work, my apartment had been gone through. No sign of forced entry, and the dead-bolt had been locked behind them as they left. Obviously, it was someone with a key. My lock was very peculiar, and I could always tell when someone other than myself had been in the apartment and locked the door behind them. Not sure how to describe it, but there was always a "feel" that was different than when I locked the door. As soon as I put the key in the lock, I knew someone had been there. I pushed the door open, peered around the corner, and saw my bedroom light on. Went back outside and called the police. They had gone through all my drawers, all my closets, and all my cabinets. They didn't find my hidden SIG P220 at my computer desk, although it was obvious they searched the desk and surrounding area. They ransacked the closets, but never found any other rifles. My "hiding spot" made the move with me into a house, and is still my favorite stash location, although I do not use it much any more.


They took my receiver + barrel, and most of the assorted parts that "looked" like they belonged on the gun. They forgot the bolt carrier assembly, some fire control parts, and a few other misc. parts to put the thing together. They basically ended up with a box of parts that they couldn't do anything with unless they knew how to build the rifle. Also stolen was a Beretta handgun that was on my nightstand. Those were the only items out in plain sight. Everything else was hidden. I had over 100 g-3 mags, and over 30 AK-47 mags that were untouched.


I spent a few days on the phone with every gun shop, pawn shop, gunsmith, or parts seller in the area letting them know what happened, and what they might see walk through their doors in need of "repair", since the gun was not complete, and would not fire. I also had a nice long talk with the property manger, and she said she'd do some looking around for me as well. I was honest with her in that I suspected it was one of her employees. I walked the property and checked the dumpsters daily.


A week later, everything stolen from me ended up in a trash bag placed on my front porch. Only things missing were a loaded 30rnd AR15 P-mag, a Beretta 96 magazine, and 11 golden sabre .40s&w rounds. All rifle components, parts, and my beretta handgun were returned. The maintenance guy we all suspected (but could never prove) was "randomly" drug tested, failed, and was ultimately fired. No other break-ins were reported on that property for the rest of the time I lived there.


I bought a safe and a security system shortly after.
 
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I was burglarized while gone over this Thanksgiving weekend. The thieves broke into a barsco safe, apparently using jiggler keys. They also broke into an outside shed and found two hidden revolvers. Lost four handguns and a nice o/u 12 gauge, quite a bit of silver, coins and a Stihl chainsaw. The thieves were very careful to leave everything looking undisturbed. The SO's say they are seeing this MO a lot where someone with locksmithing training is carefully burglarizing homes. Homeowners don't realize they've been hit for days and sometimes weeks. The safe they couldn't get into was a Homak, so keep that in mind when looking for a safe.
 
Fella's;

I'm a locksmith, and specialize in safe sales. True safes, not RSC's. In my professional opinion, if you're relying on something that uses a normal blade type key to secure your firearms, you have third-rate protection. If you have to have something that's keyed, at least get something that either has a vending-machine type tubular key, or better yet is a proprietary high security type system such as that from Medeco.

If you're looking at something with a manual combination dial, look for either the S&G (Sargent & Greenleaf), or LG (LaGard) logo. Beware though that there are several variants that look very much like the quality combination locks logo's, but aren't. Those that aren't are frequently wheel-pack type locks that offer limited change options, and simply are not as sophisiticated inside as the S&G or LG locks.

If you want the convienience of an electronic lock, go for it. But there, I have to suggest getting an LG. There are others with considerable factors that I don't like.

If you want to be a test mule for the bio-metric locks, go right ahead. But they've been trying for years to get those systems up to reliable standards & haven't done it yet in anything even approaching an affordable system.

900F
 
I have 2 high quality gun safes. A deadbolted gun room with solid doors, and a monitored security system with redundant backup communication.

I live on a culdesac with a number of nosy, retired neighbors. I come and go at all hours with no regularity.

I have multiple weapons "around" the house, 10 steps from anywhere.

Never been broken into. Never been home invaded. Never pulled a gun on anyone. Have been on high alert a couple of times.

I train at my private outdoor range from every possible firing position.

Could pros take me down? Maybe...maybe not. Hopefully I'll never find out.
 
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