Home Security Systems (Gun related)

[TarpleyG]

Another thread got me thinking. My wife and I are trying to buy our first house this summer. We currently rent and have not had any security related events thus far. I want to install a security system (the real deal) into any new home that we buy. I want to install it myself for two reasons - a) I am a "If you want something done right, do it yourself" guy and b) we will not have the money to have a top end security system professionally installed.

My primary concerns when away from home are the guns. I plan to start saving for a real safe after we buy the house. I currently keep everything locked up in a "strong box" that is fairly durable but could be defeated in a few minutes.

I want a system that can also dial out. I am still up in the air about monitoring and would want it monitored for fire more than anything else.

Does anyone have any information on good security systems and where they can be purchased and does anyone have any links to information that I can start reading about on how to install one myself the right way?

BTW, we already have two dogs and I always lock everything up. I am obsessed with locks. Just ask my wife. I am also capable of doing almost any kind of hands-on installation and most likely will have (or have access to) any tool I would need.

Thanks,
GT

 

[pax]

I am still up in the air about monitoring and would want it monitored for fire more than anything else.

A non monitored system can go off and screech for days on end while you are on vacation. (Up until the neighbors find a way to shut the hellacious noise off, anyway.)

A monitored system gives you one more tool in your toolbox. We had one in a house we lived in several years back and I really enjoyed the peace of mind it gave me. One time, the alarm went off at 3 in the morning. Husband had just tiptoed out the door to work a few minutes before and had accidentally armed the inside motion detector when he left. Dog got up to get a drink of water, and I woke up from a sound sleep, muzzy-headed and confused with the siren blaring. I was 90% sure what had happened to cause alarm to go off, so I probably wouldn't have called 911 in any case. There was no sign of an intruder -- no unlocked doors, no open windows. The alarm company was on the phone before I even woke up enough to shut the hellacious noise off, and they stayed on the phone with me while I checked windows & doors. But the alarm company would have called 911 for me if I 1) hadn't answered the phone, 2) hadn't known the password, or 3) got off the phone suddenly.

This all happened back before I knew about safe rooms and such things, but I still think a monitored system beats an unmonitored system hands down.

pax

 

[No4Mk1*]

If your phone line is not protected where it exits the house then your security system loses much of it's value.

 

[JCOJR]

There are two schools of thought regarding home protection. The first has been voiced above.

I prefer a local system, with a loud exterior and interior siren and eight minute reset, which is not monitored for several reasons:

1) false alarms are realatively harmless

2) if an intruder continues in after alarm is going, there's no doubt he is up to no good - use leathal force

3) if intruder continues in while you are away from home, things can be replaced - it takes the police several minutes to respond even to a monitored alarm

My local alarm will sound when the phone line is cut (even though I do not have a monitoring company, I have a dialer that pages me and other relatives. I'm 5 minutes from my home)

Just a different perspective.

 

[Sharpie1]

Is it possible to have some sort of cellular dialing feature?

TD

 

[Rembrandt]

Had a home security telemarketer call me 3-4 times trying to sell me a home alarm system....told him I had a gun and a couple of dogs and wouldn't be needing his system. He was persistant....insisted a gun and dogs wouldn't be as effective as his system. I finally gave in, told him I'd buy his package under one condition....if he could break into my house and survive I'd buy it......the guy hung up on me. Perhaps it was something I said?

I'm a firm believer in using a multi-layered system....if one fails a backup can take over. Motion sensors, dogs, safe, alarms can all be used together to make an effective deterent.

 

[tommytrauma]

Is it possible to have some sort of cellular dialing feature?

Yup, it sure is.

If your phone line is not protected where it exits the house then your security system loses much of it's value.

1) See above.
2) It's easy to protect the line.
3) If you want to spend the money on a lease line, cutting the line actually trips the alarm instead of disabling it.

I hear the 'cut the phone line' thing every time the subject of alarm systems comes up. Don't you think the industry has caught on to that over the past couple of decades? Oh, the 'cut the wires leading to the horn' trick doesn't work with a real system either, for reasons i won't discuss on an open forum. And the 'bash the keypad' trick only works on cheap *** systems with the CPU in the key pad. With real systems, the CPU is housed in an armored box, not easily accessable. And no, sticking a penny to a door contact with gum doesn't disable the system unless you're starring in a bad TV show.

GT, I spent several years installing and servicing alarm systems. I can recommend Radionics systems hands down. It's a hard wired system, but it doesn't sound like running wire is too tough for you. Door cantacts are cheap, and PIR motion sensors aren't too badly priced. Glass break sensors are a pain in the *** to calibrate, and I hate the things. However, depending on the size of your place and how fancy you want to get, you can spend a moderate chunk of cash pretty quickly. If you decide to go wireless, ITI is the only wireless brand I even half way trust, but wired is really the way to go. The only problem you're going to have with 'do it yourself' instalation is getting the system programmed. You might be able to cut a deal where you do all the wire pulling and tie in all the peripherials, and a "pro" sets up your CPU and key pad. If you let me know where you are, there's a chance that I might be able to point you to someone in your area. Do keep in mind that the vast majority of "security consultants" are alarm salesmen with little to no real knowledge of alarm systems, much less security. You wouldn't BELIEVE the crap I've heard "consultants' tell clients.

If you get a monitored system, trench your phone line, and look into the cellular dialer backup. I can share some other phone line info via e-mail if you go this route.

As far as monitoring, the caliber of service you can get varies wildly. Personally, mine's not monitored. The dialer does trip my pager though, and I have an understanding with my neighbors. Despite what someone else said, most any decent system silences itself after 5 or 8 minutes, so a false alarm won't just keep blaring 'til you get home. Keep in mind that, if you're not home, any false alarm results in police dispatch with a monitored system. Many municipalities are now billing for false alarm responses, with fees in the hundreds of dollars. And literally 99%+ of all residential intrusion alarms are false. If you do go with monitored, consider placing it in 'test' or 'no action' status for the first couple of weeks so you have a chance to get into the routine and discover bugs such as floor vents blowing curtains in front of motion detectors.

Lemme know if I can offer any other information.

 

[TarpleyG]

Thanks tommytrauma. That's the type of info I am looking for.

You wouldn't BELIEVE the crap I've heard "consultants" tell clients.

That's the stuff I want to stay away from...

I'll contact you off-board with some other questions if you don't mind.

Thanks,
GT

 

[plateshooter]

I work for fire and security company, and they have some pretty good stuff available. I have a DSC system which I used to install and sell. My system dials my pager and I can have each zone send a different code. I can trace the path someone would take walking through my home by the zone codes it sends. Monitoring cost is 0, and I can call the police or fire dept if I get a fire code on my pager. Just another option you might want to consider.

 

[VaughnT]

What about security for apartments?

The reason I ask is that I'm considering a move to be closer to work and the gun club. What I don't want is some butthead bashing in a window/door and getting my gear.

So far as I've seen the neighborhood is nice (relative), but a deadbolt just isn't enough when you have a glass patio door at ground level.

Is there something out there for the renter?

 

[Brat7748]

I was broken into , and I had an alarm system.

They were "pro" not kids looking for stuff.

They must have known I was out of town, and that I had a system. Here is how they defeated it.

1) Cut phone line at the pole in front of house (its an underground line, but has to come up out of the ground to go up the pole)

2)Destroyed outside siren and montion sensor light (no light no sound).

3)Broke into house and for good measure destoyed alarm panel.

Corrective action

1) Cell phone back up, well hidden in the house, cost an extra $15 a month.

2) No more Alarm warning stickers/decals on the house.

3)Tamper switch in outside siren box, trip it and cell phone calls in alarm. If possible I would hide outside alarm and put it out of reach.

4)Use lights and radio on timers, and if possible leave at least one car in driveway.

Let it be a surprise to the BG that you have an alarm. If they know its there they will try to defeat it.

 

[Erik Jensen]

I've got a question... do they have a monitered security system that uses something other than a land line phone? I've gone completely digital, and I don't have nor want a phone line.

 

[Brat7748]

Would depend on where you live, but yes I can't think of any reason why not to have just a cell phone to call in. The only problem I have had is that maybe one or two times a year there will be a short drop out of the cell signal, which triggers a trouble call (on the land line). Has happened during high winds and snow storms. I suspect the cell tower loses regular power and drops off line for a few seconds untill the back-up system take over.

 

[Brat7748]

TommyTrauma gave some good advice, but a couple things to consider. A pager works fine if your just across town, but what if your 1,000 miles away on vacation? Can you leaver pager with a close by friend or relative, if you can great.

Lease lines sense being cut by the voltage drop, phone lines normaly carry about 5volts as I recall....but my installer tells me that the phone company puts on and takes off voltage when working on the lines, this can lead to a lot of false alarms.

My town gives you 2 "free" false alarms per year after that they start with the fines. I think the most common false alarm is when you forget the alarm is on and open the door to go out, in which case you are still home to stop alarm before it gets to police.

 

[braindead0]

Besides the timed lights when gone, I also have a scanner monitoring local police frequencies hooked up to a stereo upstairs. Load enough you can just hear it downstairs, I figure they break in that outta make them wonder...a lot ;-)

Heck, it scares me when I come home!

 

[dav]

If you would just like to see some of what is available, I recommend SmartHome.

Lots of gadgets, and also some books to help you learn about installing stuff.

I have purchased stuff from them in the past. Expensive, but a good outfit. I have not purchased any security systems from them.

 

[dwestfall]

I think our alarm system is almost a total waste of money.

There was an alarm in the house when we moved in. For the wife's peace-of-mind while I travel, we decided to power it up and get a monitoring service.

We replaced a number of windows with douple-pane just prior to the alarm salesman's visit. The old windows had magnetic monitors on them. Salesman says "I don't think you really want to drill holes in your new windows to replace the alarm sensors -- it can can cause problems with the insulation ability of the window. Besides, nobody wants to break a window to get in -- too much noise. They'll just break the glass next to the door handle, and open the door."

It kinda made sense at the time. In retrospect I realize the guy was just a salesman and wanted to sign up the monitoring contract (most profitable) without having to do any work on the hardware.

The house is pretty well covered with motion detectors. But for when we were gone, we asked for an additional motion detector in a room that now had no window monitors. It was promised, but somehow got dropped off the list of the tech who came to program the system. Despite numerous calls we still don't have any monitoring in that room.

At night, even if we do set the alarm we don't arm the interior motion detectors. So somebody could break or jimmy an unmonitored window and gain entry. They'd have to guess which window of course.

I'm pretty sure the control panel we have has the CPU right in it. Smashing it would pretty much eliminate the monitoring signal. The control panel is centrally located, and there isn't one in the bedroom.

The telephone wires not protected but the demarcation point is oddly inside the house. But the wires could be cut outside with a ladder. When the wires are cut, the system doesn't notice for a long time.

When I do set the alarm at night the only use it has is to alert me if somebody kicks in a door or jimmies one of the monitored windows. In that case, doom on them.

We live in an extremely low-crime-rate area, we don't have any cash or jewelry in the house, our insurance is paid up and my guns are in an extremely heavy bolted-down safe. The alarm is basically for our personal protection when we're sleeping, and there are so many holes in it that it's basically a magic feather for my wife, and the monitoring gives her somebody to call when the thing malfunctions and goes off in the middle of the night.

We don't want a dog.

I hate having this joke of a system but I'm not sure our limited-risk environment warrants the expense of doing it right.

Actually the best alarm system we have was the cheapest -- we have a baby monitor in the baby's room which lets me hear noises from the other side of the house that otherwise wouldn't wake me up.

 

[bogie]

1. Make friends with your neighbors. If someone backs up a truck, you want them to know that you're not moving, and that they should call the police.

2. If they can't find the safe, they can't break into it. It's your house, so you can do whatever you want. Put a false wall in the basement or somewhere, with a nicely concealed door, doing the work yourself (or have a friend help you).

 

[Hkmp5sd]

As a side note, many homeowners insurance policies offer a discount for having a monitored alarm sytem. They give an additional discount for a smoke/fire alarm tied into it .

That offsets the cost of the monitoring.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I have an unusual security system from Sonitrol. It is used mostly by businesses, not private homes and is somewhat more expensive than a typical system. It employs microphones. The idea is that the intruder makes a noise which signals the locally based monitor to pay attention after a computer alert. I live in an area where false alarms can cost you $40,000. That is not a typo! Sonitrol will pay for false alarms. They actually feed the sound of the break-in to the police. They claim that most intruders are caught because they do not generate false alarms and the police will respond quickly to their calls. I do not know if that is true or just spin since thankfully I have not had a break-in.

They have a variety of other features including cell phone and battery backup. When my phone line went down they called my designated neighbor to check it out. At the same time the in house alarm went off to indicate the failure of the phone line. We have canaries. They were out of the house for a few weeks during remodeling. They were returned and the next time the security was turned we got a call to ask what had happened because they picked up the sounds of the canaries when we left the house. In night time mode, ordinary house sounds will not create an alert, bur glass breaking will. I got a big surprise one night when I got a 2am call. I had racked a shotgun after cleaning it. The computer at Sonitrol was alerted to the frequency pattern of the sound and they called to see if there was a problem.