Homemade BP

[thegrower]

Recently a few friens and i have decided to start making our own BP. Mainly due to the fact that ammunition has become costly and hard to get. I have been a reloader of cartidge rounds since I could walk but even these components are getting hard to find. If you don't beleive me look at all the back order items on midway usa.
So we have made several small batches using a ball mill. Nothing more than 200gr. TRying to get the burn rate to equal goex. WE have found that manipulating the formula by increasing or decreasing the 3 main ingredients does not have a hug effect. We still cannot resemble the instant flash of goex. Although we have shot our powders intesting. A 60 grain charge of our powder send as 50 cal round ball at about 900fps. Goex of equal weight was around 990fps. I think it is understood that our homemade powder will require a bigger charge for the same effect. I am trying to find out what we need to do to get the burn rate up.
I beleive the quality of the coal is suppose to make the biggest difference? WE have used store bought wilow coal from an art supply store and also made our own coal from bamboo. Ther results were the same. Perhaps we are missing something. We have seen no difference in 100:17:16 or 75:15:10. Any ideas.

 

[Nate1778]

Are you corning the green powder before you use it? That speeds the burn rate substantially. The reason you need more powder for homemade is do to the fact that Goex and others press there powder into bricks for corning. Not unreasonable for the hobbiest but not necessary. The density is much greater for theirs then it is for ours.

I shot some of mine the other say and thought the results were respectable. The corned grains needed to be broken up finer.

 

[thegrower]

The process I have been using is to ball mill all ingredients for about 24 hours.
The fine powder is then mixed with a 50/50 h2o/alcohol mix that has been heat to about 200 degrees. Small amounts of this solution are added to powder to get a clay like consistency. The powder clay is then worked through a mesh strainer. I have done this wet and dry. Dry seems to make finer powder and wet seems to give me a more consistent grain size. Do commercial manufactures make their grains wet or dry. Tell me more about this corning process please. We are trying to perfect this so we can use our powder for hunting this year. Should be pretty rewarding know we made the powder and poured the bullets.

 

[georgeduz]

use soft wood like pine.burn ,then grind to a powder.would not use hard woods .

 

[MCgunner]

I've been under the impression that one needed to sieve the product through a 20 mesh/50 mesh screen stack and save the powder on the 50 mesh screen (particle size 3FG). Am I not correct? Is this not necessary?

I need to take the boat on a willow hunt.

 

[Curator]

Read the powder making article in the "Foxfire" series if you can find it at your local library. I recall they found that they had to make their own charcoal so it was not "over-cooked" and totally dried out as was commercial charcoal. It seems a small amount of ceosote would be left when correctly made and that contributed to the energy of the powder. Another addition was the use of "stale urine" to wet the dry ingredients in the corning process. Why this worked better is unknown unless the addition of ammonia added something chemically. I know that a mixture of ammonia nitrate and potassium nitrate can be highly explosive, so that may be the answer.

 

[MCgunner]

Uh, I'll pass on the urine, thanks.

 

[Nate1778]

I get my Willow and other chemicals from this guy:
http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72

Here is a bit of a description on the corning method the manufacturers use.
http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/high-powered-black-powder.asp

Keep in mind that the powder that is run through a press has a much greater density then just getting it wet and running it through a sifter. Therefore much less volume is needed. You will need more homemade powder to match the denser Goex type powder. What your talking about is the burn rate though, my stuff is pretty darn fast. I buy all my chemicals as pure as possible. I think that is the only way to get truly fast black powder. Your getting it wet which is good that speeds the burn once dried. Also let it dry out thoroughly. Here is a chart on different types of charcoal used. Keep in mind the other components in these tests are 99% pure.

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html

Here is another great link on making the stuff.

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/blackpowder2.html#charcoal

 

[MCgunner]

Hmm, I do have a 10 ton hydraulic press in the shop. Wondering if I could make a vessel to press the damp powder in, then bust it up and sieve it?

Or, hell, ust shoot 110 grains instead of 90.

 

[arcticap]

One knowledgable expert mentioned that there is a relatively short window of time in the spring during which the young tree branches are gathered for the commercial black powder operations to use for their entire yearly production.
He said that there's a short drying period and that even women and children are employed in the labor intensive process of debarking the young branches.
After hearing about this, it led me to wonder if the commercial outfit that sell Willow charcoal for instance, use the young, fresh willow branches best suited for the purpose or if every part of a willow tree is equally as good?
Also, the more potent Swiss powder has been mentioned as being a slightly moister powder, or made using a wetter process that contains Alder charcoal.

 

[Nate1778]

Ohh I have thought about it, but the thought of taking 1/3 pound of gunpowder and pressing it to 10 tons that scares the you know what out of me.

 

[MCgunner]

Ohh I have thought about it, but the thought of taking 1/3 pound of gunpowder and pressing it to 10 tons that scares the you know what out of me.

Yeah, that entered my mind, too. LOL

 

[scrat]

if you have a bench vise you have a press. once you make it into a clay substance you can put it in a small tomato sauce can. then tape a slug or 1/2 dollar to a socket. open the jaws of the vice put in the can with the socket on the paste then just turn the vice to compact the paste. then let it dry out turn the can over when its dry and tap it and the hard bp will come out. all pressureized. then you will have to dry seive it.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

Ok, this may be a 'DUH!' question, but are you measuring your powder and the Goex by weight or by volume. If you're going by vol., since you're not compressing it, it won't be as dense as the Goex. In other words 100 gr. by volume of Goex, might only be 90 grains of your homemade, and naturally not as strong.

 

[alemonkey]

if you have a bench vise you have a press

Scrat, I've thought about doing exactly what you suggested, but wouldn't it be hard to get a consistent amount of pressure from one batch to the next? Or would that even matter? I know most hydraulic presses have a gauge showing how much pressure you're applying, so you apply the same amount each time.

 

[Pulp]

My willow powder will give me a tad over 1000 fps from a '51 Navy Knock-off. That's filling the cylinder to the rim, then seating the bullet. My powder is more compressible than Goex, so I can get away with it. For Cowboy Action I use a 30 grain spout on my flask. Plenty of power.

I tried compressing some by spooning wet powder into a 1/2 inch piece of PVC, then pressing it with a dowel rod. It takes the press cakes a LONG time to dry, and then it's very difficult to work through a screen. I also got a lot more fines using this method. 'Course the fines can be re-wetted and worked again, but I'd rather just skip the compression from now on.

 

[zxcvbob]

Powder is pressed dry (a tiny bit of moisture might be a good thing) with enough force to plasticize the sulfur. You can't get there with a bench vice. I've wondered about a cheap arbor press from Harbor Freight, or making a press from a bottle jack and some steel channel, but they whole corning process scares me.

 

[Pulp]

BTW, I could achieve about a 25% reduction in volume with the PVC method.

 

[scrat]

Scrat, I've thought about doing exactly what you suggested, but wouldn't it be hard to get a consistent amount of pressure from one batch to the next? Or would that even matter? I know most hydraulic presses have a gauge showing how much pressure you're applying, so you apply the same amount each time.

Do you have torque wrench. If the answer is yes then your home free.

Take a 1/2 pipe about 6-8 inches in length. then drill a hole on one side. Put a bolt throught the pipe and put a nutt on it very very tight. if you have a welder spot weld it in place. then put the pipe over the handle of the vise. then tighten it down with the torque wrench. if you use the type with the needle it will swing to where the amount of foot lbs is on the vise. i only do this after i tighten it up works good. this will help you stay consistent between batches.

 

[scrat]

Powder is pressed dry (a tiny bit of moisture might be a good thing) with enough force to plasticize the sulfur. You can't get there with a bench vice. I've wondered about a cheap arbor press from Harbor Freight, or making a press from a bottle jack and some steel channel, but they whole corning process scares me

Been there done that. what i found is if you have a vice you have a press. they have a small arbor press a 2 ton press same thing though you will not be able to tell how much pressure is put on the thing your using. the next size up runs for 70.00 same thing though its a hydraulic press and you can not tell how much pressure is put on it. the expensive ones have a guage. you can just make one yourself with a needle type torque wrench and a pipe with a nut welded on it or drill a hole and put a bolt through it.

 

[alemonkey]

That's a great idea on the torque wrench idea. I'll have to give it a try.

 

[Nate1778]

You guys be careful with the presses. The few examples I have scene online have a remote activator, and a blast shield. By remote I mean even a long shaft to operate the pump behind the shield. Essentially you are constructing a bomb for even just a brief second, moisture helps but still. Just saying do it carefully, you guys are too cool to come up MIA.

 

[BossHaug]

If you want to make your own BP, you should obtain the publication called "CIA Field Expedient Preparation of Black Powders". Looks like our government has already done the homework, and come up with a safe way to make BP with the "Precipitation Method". This booklet is 29 pages long, published by The Combat Bookshelf, Desert Publications, Cornville, AZ 86325, 1977. I did make a batch using information and instructions in this booklet. I got about a pound, and it worked well in my Kentucky pistols (45 cal). Since I use a volume powder measure, I did have to increase the volume slightly to get the same performance as commercial BP.

 

[BlackNet]

BossHaug, you mean this method?

http://krimzonpyro.com.ve.carpathiahost.net/rat/compositions/ciabp.html

 

[BossHaug]

BlackNet, after looking at the link, I think it is basically the same method. There are some variations from the booklet that I have, but I think it would work just fine. He uses a ratio of 75:15:10 (KNO3, charcoal, sulphur), and my booklet calls for 3 cups granulated KNO3, 2 cups powdered charcoal, and 1/2 cup powdered sulphur. One other difference I noticed: his BP was actually black, as mine turned out kinda gray, heh.