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Did GOEX change formulations/granulations in their FFg powder?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by MacTech, Apr 22, 2011.

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  1. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    I have a tin of "old" Goex FFg that I purchased about eight months ago, and just got around to getting a BP gun to shoot it in recently, the can of "old" Goex has the following datecode on the bottom of the tin;

    02-45 09SE16B

    and the label on the front of the can says;
    GOEX
    Black Rifle
    Powder
    American-made since 1912
    The Authentic propellant

    and the standard lawyer-speak danger warnings below that

    this tin of GOEX has a granulation size like this;
    [​IMG]
    visibly largish grains

    the new tin I got has this datecode;
    02-50 100C21B

    the label reads;
    GOEX
    Black Powder (the word "rifle" and the powderhorn graphic are removed from the logo)
    The Tradition Continues
    American Made since 1802

    this tin has this granulation;
    [​IMG]

    and together, old on the left, new on the right;
    [​IMG]

    Any ideas? newer formulation? is it normal to have such a discrepancy in granulation between lots?, or is this perhaps FFFg mislabled and packed in an FFg tin?

    would loading the new finer granulation in a 80-90 grain charge be problematic for my T/C Black Mountain Magnum?

    I did light off a tiny bit of both and they seem to have the same burn/flash rate, if anything, the newer tin leaves less residue behind...
     
  2. Bluehawk

    Bluehawk Member

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    The cap on the left looks like Fg powder...on the right FFg.
    Rifles in .58 caliber or so can use Fg powder quite well.
     
  3. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Well, my Black Mountain Magnum seemed to have no issues with the "old" can of powder last week, and if that can is closer to Fg then I guess the new can should do just fine then

    I was just concerned that perhaps the new can was mis-filled with FFFg or something

    Is it possible to get a pic of the grain size of FFFg and FFFFg so I know what to look for grain size wise?
     
  4. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    kwhi43@kc.rr.com Member

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    If nobody else has it, I will take pictures of both Goex FF & FFF and post
    it here late tommorrow.
     
  5. SAA

    SAA Member

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    If those are macro pictures of the little Goex caps, then yes, I would say you have 2F on the left and 3F on the right.

    2F left, 3F right from my cans:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  6. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Bet they mislabeled the can.
     
  7. zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen Member

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    I read somwhere that in some countries the powder granulation classes are the reverse of what we use. Their fg would be our prime powder for flint pans and their 4fg would be our coarsest musket powder. Perhaps a can of powder intended for export?
     
  8. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Yes, those are the Goex caps, so it looks like I have a mislabled can of FFFg...

    next questions;

    my BP rifle is a T/C Black Mountain Magnum, capable of a max load of 110 grains of 2F, is it safe to use 3F powder in this gun, any advantages or disadvantages to using 3F instead of 2F?

    I have one of those adjustable brass powder measures, I'm assuming that since the 3F is a finer granulation that a 80 grain load of 3F would contain more actual powder than a 80 grain load of 2F and therefore be stronger, so how much should I reduce loads when using 3F

    how normal is it to have tins mislabled/filled with the wrong powder, should I be checking each tin before I buy it, or is this just a random happening here
     
  9. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    Time to call GOEX. That's not too good when they mislabel a product that is in the explosive category.
     
  10. 45Fan

    45Fan Member

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    fffg should be fine in your rifle, I believe the reduction is 15%, but its been a long time since i actually looked it up. For many years I have used fffg in my sidelock rifles to promote better ignition. I carried that over when I made the swich to pyrodex, and it has served me well. The last load i used in a CVA bobcat was 80 gr. Pyrodex P under a 50 cal patched roundball.
    I cant think of any disadvantage to using 3f in place of 2f, and the biggest advantage I have found is more reliable ignition durring the colder muzzleloader season here in indiana.
     
  11. ZVP

    ZVP Member

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    I got a batch Goex FFF from Bass Pro's (The onlly place within 75 miles to buy BP) and I think I got either an old batch or maybe just it's a weird batch?
    Misfires, slow fires, and a couple cylinders took 3 caps to set the stuff off! Not reliable as it should be
    I'd been shooting Substitutes and I kinda got soured on BP till some Old Timers helped me out understanding the stuff...
    I am looking forward to shooting a "GOOD" batch of Black Powder to enjoy the shooting fun, but at least I have had a chance to experience a good bit of Substitute shooting which wasn't a bad thing!
    I found one "source" up in Jamestown Ca. (about 90 Miles away) to get authentic BP so I need to make a field trip up in the Foot Hills to get some!
    It's odd, but here in Central Ca, Black Powder costs more than Substitutes. 777 gets pricey from some Gun Shops cause it's all they carry.
    ZVP
     
  12. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Just back from KTP, their resident BP expert, Jim Dill, a longtime BP shooter confirmed that what I have *IS* in fact FFFg packaged in a FFg tin, it IS a mislabeled batch of powder

    We had a tin pulled up from the warehouse and it too was labeled FFg but contained FFFg, KTP is pulling that batch number from stock and returning it to their vendor just to be safe

    I also called GOEX and left a message in their VM with the lot number and my contact info

    I'm gonna keep this tin of FFFg anyway as I want to see how it performs in my rifle
     
  13. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    MacTech, if you'd post the lot number of the mislabeled cans I'd appreciate it. I'd like to post this on my gun club's website once it's confirmed.

    Thanks!
     
  14. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    It's in my OP, the datecode is;

    02-50 100C21B

    two cans of GOEX BP that are labeled FFg appeared to have FFFg in them, KTP is checking their inventory as well...
     
  15. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    Ah, missed that. Thanks.
     
  16. Bluehawk

    Bluehawk Member

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    I didn't realize the powder was in the Goex caps so it appears I made a mistake...my apologies.
     
  17. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Regarding using 3f vs 2f in your rifle - what caliber is it?
     
  18. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    .50 caliber, according to Jim at KTP, 3F should be fine in it, it's what he uses in his .50, he just reduces the load by 15%, as has been recommended here as well
     
  19. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    I had to look up KTP to figure out what you were talking about. Kittery Trading Post? For awhile there I thought maybe it was a competitor to Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) for tree huggers called Kentucky Tofu Poultry (KTP). ;)
     
  20. SAA

    SAA Member

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    Just last night my son saw they are changing it to "KGC" (Kentuky Grilled Chicken).:rolleyes::barf:
     
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