Homemade Firearms

[eyebrows]

I know that it is legal to make a firearm for personal use so long as it doesn't violate any laws. But I have a few questions about the details.

1) Would a multi-barreled rifle be considered a machine gun?
ex Two barrels, two actions, two magazines, one trigger pull fires both.

2) Is it legal to take a reciever(serialized) and use it within my own firearm creation? It would be nothing like the firearm I took the reciever from but the reciver is legaly mine.

I'm just looking for general info, I would contact the ATF to verify prior to building anything like this, of course

 

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

I would actually contact the ATF with these questions, in the past they've been good about answering hypotheticals. Of course, if the law is fuzzy, they will always advise you on the side of caution. For example, if the law isn't clear, they'll tell you not to do it.

 

[K3]

Try that double barrel rifle in 460 Weatherby magnum and let me know how far the recoil sends you into the next county!

 

[ctdonath]

Do a search on "open source firearm" for an interesting relevant subject. Not sure the project really got anywhere, but it was a worthwhile start.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

eyebrows,

I have seen it stated in the past that one way the ATF defines a machine gun is any firearm which fires multiple projectiles based on a single movement of the trigger. So if you pull the trigger once and both barrels fire, you've made an illegal firearm. Of course, I've never done this, am not a lawyer, and have not looked up the regulation/code in question.

 

[NeoSpud]

Jimmy- A long while back I remember reading an NFA FAQ that confirmed what you said. I'll try to find it... IIRC, more than 1 cartridge fired for a single function of the trigger = machinegun

 

[eyebrows]

"I have seen it stated in the past that one way the ATF defines a machine gun is any firearm which fires multiple projectiles based on a single movement of the trigger."

That is my understanding of the law, I want to know if it would pertain to what I described.
I could put multiple rifles to my shoulder, tie a string around the triggers and pull the string without breaking any laws(i think) and that's basically what I am thinking of, except for using a single trigger and mounting the barrels to a single stock.

"Do a search on "open source firearm" for an interesting relevant subject. Not sure the project really got anywhere, but it was a worthwhile start."

Do you have a link? Google gives me an article on the AK47 and I didn't see anything relevant searching here. At least not on the first page of results.


Thanks for the replies, I guess I should contact the ATF this seems like it could be a fuzzy area even though this would be nothing like a "machine gun".
My idea is three barrels arranged in a triangle with each individual receiver/barrel being adjustable for elevation. Ideally I would be able to adjust the elevations for range and cause the three .22 bullets to impact one point. Ideally.

 

[MudPuppy]

check some of the sites that cater more to homebuilders, like gunco.net or akfiles.com.

 

[brickeyee]

"...that's basically what I am thinking of, except for using a single trigger and mounting the barrels to a single stock."


And basically it is NOT the same thing.
One gun, one trigger, multiple projectiles (and NOT a shotgun).

 

[E20thLRP]

I have Seen your Weapon... you want it was a Shotgun 2 Semiautos..
it was at Soldier of Fortune Convention several years ago !! don't know
how legal it was but....it worked very well !!! Echo...out

 

[Koos Custodiet]

You can build a Gatling using mail order plans (two different sets available) and it's legal. Until you hook an electric motor to the crank handle...

 

[Zoogster]

I could put multiple rifles to my shoulder, tie a string around the triggers and pull the string without breaking any laws(i think) and that's basically what I am thinking of, except for using a single trigger and mounting the barrels to a single stock.

And basically it is NOT the same thing.
One gun, one trigger, multiple projectiles (and NOT a shotgun).

Actualy it is the same thing and is in fact illegal. Tying a string around multiple triggers would turn the string into a machinegun and be illegal. If a shoestring hooked up in a way on a single firearm to make it fire multiple projectiles with one pull of the trigger is a machinegun, then a string hooked up to multiple firearms to cause more than one projectile to be fired by pulling the string would also fit the description by my understanding. It would become an enabling device making one pull of the "trigger" (string) fire multiple projectiles. Or a machinegun by ruling even if it is only making each firearm fire one time.

 

[scbair]

I comprehend the "firearm that discharges more than one round with one pull of the trigger," but this sounds like a mechanism to permit simultaneous discharge of two separate firearms (even if both are mounted to a single stock, bolted together, or wrapped with duct tape!

If the possessor were prohibited from having a firearm (convicted felon, whatever), ya think he wouldn't be charged with two counts of unlawful possession?

Not a lawyer, and don't know of any precedents, but makes no sense to me. Probably a good indicator it's a capital offense!

 

[AntiqueCollector]

The actual NFA definition of machine gun:

"The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person."


A lot of old double barrel shotguns can fire both barrels off with one pull of the trigger, but I haven't seen the ATF going after them, but find out for sure if your design will be legal...

 

[SDC]

I have to wonder how this impacts on things like "volley guns", which were once popular; these were normally in rimfire, with multiple barrels and a clip-loading attachment that allowed all seven (or more) barrels to be fired at once. These are seen in both percussion black powder and metallic-cased ammo versions. See http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies p/a pieper henri gb.htm for some nice pictures of a rimfire version.

 

[DMF]

. . . one way the ATF defines a machine gun is . . .

ATF does not define what a machine is, that's the job of Congress. Which they did in Title 26, Section 5845(b) of the United States Code:

"The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed
to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more
than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of
the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of
any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and
exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use
in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of
parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in
the possession or under the control of a person."

 

[zxcvbob]

What about a double-barrel shotgun with external hammers and a single trigger? That seems to be the classic example of a gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger.

The definition says:
"...automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading"

I think the key word here is "automatic", and the context is reloading. A db shotgun does not automatically rechamber a round, it has to be manually reloaded. Therefore it is not a machinegun even though it can fire two shots with one trigger pull.

Of course, the BATF changes their interpretation of the laws on a whim, so I'm not sure it matters what the law really says. It means whatever the stormtroopers says it means on that day.

Bob

 

[Novus Collectus]

I don't know the answer, but since the firearms labratory at the ATF uses abritary determinations in an enigmatic way, it is possible it may go something like this:
Since the simultaneous discharge of two projectiles by the sigle pull of a trigger is allowed for shotguns with numerous projectiles being propelled by the same cartridge, the two shots would be no different if fired at the same time.
If the projectiles were fired sequentially with just one pull of the trigger, then that would be a machine gun is what the labratory might say.

Now this above would make no sense of course, but since when did the ATF lab ever make sense on the issue of full auto?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I read a description of a sporting firearm used in France that fired
multiple barrels of rimfire cartridges used a long-range shotgun;
I even sketched out a design for a seven barrel volley fire
rifle on that concept, with a revolving cylinder to carry four
loaded "chambers"; I figured it would be better than buckshot
for big game. Did have problems working out a simple ejection
system (moon clips was an attractive idea).

Now I wonder what would be the legal status of such a gun?
Would it be a "machine gun" under NFA?
I had always read "automatically" to mean a gas-operated,
recoil-operated or blowback autoloading action.

 

[zoom6zoom]

ATF does not define what a machine is,

Perhaps not - but they sure are good at "interpreting" definitions!

 

[eyebrows]

Wow I've never seen anything like that seven shot Henri Pieper rifle.



IMO my idea does not fit the description of a machine gun, it essentially would be three semiautomatic rifles discharging at the same time. No automatic reloading and firing, just plain 'ol semiauto behavior.

This is something I've wanted to do for a while, I have the 10/22's to spare, and I have all the tools I could need. But I would want to be able to "show off" my rifle once I built it, if the ATF says no go, that will suck. Once I find out I will let you guys know.

 

[rkba_net]

"Is it legal to take a reciever(serialized) and use it within my own firearm creation? It would be nothing like the firearm I took the reciever from but the reciver is legaly mine."

This depends on what the ORIGINAL firearm was and what you are making it into....

example...

modifying a long-gun into another long-gun is legal...

rifle or shotgun ----> rifle or shotgun is legal

handgun -----> rifle or shotgun is legal (ie adding a shoulder stock and a 16"barrel (rifle) or 18" barrel (shotgun))

rifle or shotgun -----> pistol type configuration ie
OAL <26", rifle barrel <16" or shotgun >18" requires you to file and get APPROVED an ATF form 1 to manufacture a Short Barrel Rifle / Shotgun or APW (Any Other Weapon)