Hope for Illinois???

[DKSuddeth]

Just saw this article and a particular statement from the judge should have startling implications for the anti-gunners there.

http://suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-video12.html

The federal judge who ruled an Illinois law banning the sale of violent or sexual video games to minors was unconstitutional has another message for the state: Pay up.

U.S. District Judge Matthew Kennelly this week ordered that the state must pay more than $510,000 three business groups incurred in their successful fight over the Safe Games Illinois Act.

In December 2005, shortly before the law was to go into effect Jan. 1, Kennelly ruled in favor of the Entertainment Software Association, Video Software Dealers Association and the Illinois Retail Merchants Association and barred the state from enforcing the law.

Gov. Blagojevich and others who pushed for the measure argued that exposure to games in which characters use violence or engage in sexual acts harms children. But the judge said the law would interfere with the First Amendment and that there was not a compelling enough reason, such as preventing imminent violence, to allow it to go into effect.

I'd say that there has to be a second amendment case somewhere in Illinois that could use this statement, right?

'Irrefutable messages'



In fact, the judge said state officials came ''nowhere near'' demonstrating that the new law was constitutional.

At the time, Blagojevich said he would continue to fight for the ban. Since then, the state has appealed the ruling, Blagojevich spokesman Gerardo Cardenas said.

Despite that ongoing fight, Cardenas said the state would pay the attorneys' fees.

"Judge Kennelly's rulings send two irrefutable messages -- not only are efforts to ban the sale of violent video games clearly unconstitutional, they are a waste of taxpayer dollars," said Douglas Lowenstein, president of the Entertainment Software Association, a trade group of U.S. computer and video game publishers. "The sad fact is that the state of Illinois knew this law was unconstitutional from the beginning. Taxpayers have a right to know that over half a million of their dollars and countless government hours were thrown away in this fruitless effort."

Cullerton's prediction

In a statement released by the Entertainment Software Association, Sen. John J. Cullerton, (D-Chicago) added, "When I spoke against the law in Springfield, I predicted we would have to pay legal fees. The amount ordered paid to the plaintiffs by Judge Kennelly doesn't even count the substantial fees the state will have to pay its own lawyers."

Kennelly wrote, "If controlling access to allegedly 'dangerous' speech is important in promoting the positive psychological development of children, in our society that role is properly accorded to parents and families, not the state."

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The city of Morton Grove Illinois completely banned handguns within the city limits, and the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said - No Violation of Second Amendment.

So, no, no application.

Obviously, the Founders wanted to expose children to pornography and violence, which is why they wrote the First Amendment, but they did not wish to protect the right of the people to keep and bear arms, which is why they used the word militia in the Second Amendment.

Right?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Malum, I realize you're being sarcastic with that, but I would imagine that just because the 7th made that decision for morton grove doesn't mean that the issue could be revisited, right? or would 'precedent' be the foregone conclusion for a court that would refuse to admit it made an error?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Complaint dismissed. See City of Morton Grove.

Appeal. This issue has been previously decided by this court in, you guessed it, City of Morton Grove.

Appeal to Supreme Court. Certiorari denied (just like every other Second Amendment case).

But, hey, you can always try!

 

[illini52]

Hope for Illinois???

Probably not.

 

[ilbob]

There is hope for Illinois. If Chicago slides into Lake Michigan.

Just way too many people on the dole.

 

[popeye]

Please...my tap water comes from Lake Michigan. How about if Chicago fell in Lake Titicaca instead?

 

[The Guy]

Burn chicago I say. Now where is that damn cow at when you really need her!

Other than that, no hope ever!

Can we succede from Illinois and become SOUTHEREN Illinois? Or better yet, make the 4 counties in the north east corner (you know, where all the trouble comes from) NORTHEREN Illinois?

 

[Standing Wolf]

If controlling access to allegedly 'dangerous' speech is important in promoting the positive psychological development of children, in our society that role is properly accorded to parents and families, not the state.

Well, yeah, sure, but aren't parents just unpaid agents of the state?

 

[foghornl]

Hope for ILL-inois, maybe when Chikago Emperor DICK Daley II is wearing broad black-n-white vertical stripes in the Cross-Bar hotel....

 

[Don Gwinn]

As I understand it, the First, Fourth, Fifth, etc. have all been declared "incorporated" under the 14th Amendment equal protection clause. The 2nd Amendment has never been so declared by the SCOTUS.

In other words, the 1st and the 2nd are not equally protected.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Correct, Don. The original copy of the 14th Amendment had a clause in invisible ink about how it only applied selectively to a menu of rights that could be selected or deselected at will by the SCOTUS. There is no "select all" button. That part got blurred by spilled coffee or tea on the parchment. That's the only legal explanation I can find.

 

[Autolycus]

People who are not from Illinois just cant understand. The politicians here are a breed unto themselves. I heard on the radio that our governor has Presidential ambitions. That scares me more than Hillary, Shumer, and Feinstein all in a row. Our governor hates guns along with his cronie Daley. Actually he is Daley's cronie.

Today I saw a sign with a drawing of hands in cuffs against a cityscape.

The words

Felon + Gun + Crime = Federal Gun Crime and lots of time. or something along those lines. I shudder to think about the mentatlity of the people around here.

I will say it again... you cannot understand until you have lived here. For some reason guns are just bad here. (I dont believe it but the majority of voters here do!)

 

[The Guy]

AMEN BROTHER!

Have you ever seen a political map of Illinois. RED RED RED. Except for Champaign County and the northern counties. Population centers + leftists + corruption on the highest order = DEMOCRATIC BLUE. Affects the entire state. How did West Virgina break away anyhow?

Can we do that? I am not kidding here either. What would it take?

 

[Autolycus]

When I was in Carbondale for school it was not to bad. All of the cops I spoke with down there were very much in favor of CCW laws. They felt that people should have the right to protect themselves. I dont know what really makes the rest of IL so different? I figure something in the water around CHicago. I must be immune to it.

 

[Deanimator]

People who are not from Illinois just cant understand. The politicians here are a breed unto themselves. I heard on the radio that our governor has Presidential ambitions. That scares me more than Hillary, Shumer, and Feinstein all in a row. Our governor hates guns along with his cronie Daley. Actually he is Daley's cronie.

That's hilarious. Of course he doesn't have a snowball's chance in Fallujah. That'd be pretty much a guarantee of 100% gunowner turnout. Even HUNTERS would vote for his opponent.

 

[ilbob]

Even HUNTERS would vote for his opponent.

I would not bet on that. Hunters and skeet/trap shooters would seem to be our natural allies but many of them do not see self-defense as a big issue, and as long as the guns they use are not targeted, they will not consider the gun issue at all when voting.

Blago can trumpet that he signed the handgun hunting bill, and the new Sparta shooting complex as proof he is "pro-gun" , and the hunters and trap shooters will be fooled, at least enough that many will vote for him.

I would bet he will even claim as proof of his fealty to the second amendment that he "fixed" the problem with FOID cards taking 3-6 months to be renewed, even though he was directly responsible for the problem in the first place.

He will buy off the cop unions with promises of big pay raises and new toys, and they will support his re-election.

 

[ilbob]

When I was in Carbondale for school it was not to bad. All of the cops I spoke with down there were very much in favor of CCW laws. They felt that people should have the right to protect themselves. I dont know what really makes the rest of IL so different? I figure something in the water around CHicago. I must be immune to it.

Outside of the immediate Chicago area, things are not all that bad in Illinois. Keep in mind that in the city of Chicago, something like 30% of the population is dependent on government for their livelihood in one way or another. They are easy targets for voting the status quo, since they want to keep it coming in.

Get away from Cook County and much of the state is actually reasonably pleasant, except for the East St. Louis area. Most of the state outside of those two areas has fairly clean government, and while there is the normal petty corruption endemic to government everywhere, it is not anything like Chicago or East St. Louis.

Get fifty miles away from Cook County and you would almost not believe you were still in Illinois.

 

[Gary G23]

Tecumseh is right. That is why I moved out.

 

[The Guy]

Hey ilbob, don't forget Champaign county and the city of Urbana in that last one. Where do you think all the mini-lefties go to school to learn how to become socialists, communists, antis, and grown up lefties.

Those dang students and administraters make an otherwise fine place to live into an island of hell in the surrounding ocean of sensibility.

I used to live in Urbana so I know. Not enough of us to offset the influx come November 2nd.

So glad I moved out.

Illinois is truly a house divided.

 

[Deanimator]

Blago can trumpet that he signed the handgun hunting bill, and the new Sparta shooting complex as proof he is "pro-gun" , and the hunters and trap shooters will be fooled, at least enough that many will vote for him.

We just need to properly associate him with Daley. Even the duck hunters will consider him poison.

 

[orionengnr]

ILBob

You got most of it right.

The proper name of Daley's domain is Crook County.

I lived three years in Arlington Heights, got out in early 04. Enjoyed most everything about it, except the corruption and the totalitarianism. And the outlook for the future....

 

[Autolycus]

I was downtown visiting some schools and thinking about transfering. Parts of Chicago are beutiful but the part around University of Chicago was

I would not want to be near that area after dark. The area around UIC is beautfiul but the farther out the worse it becomes. I did notice a big police presence which is nice but I still did not feel all that much safer.

I love Chicago because it will always be my home and if they had CCW I dont think I would leave. Its such an uphill battle here in IL. The Sparta complex is great and many will think Blago is pro gun but these are the same people who dont think you need a black rifle. The majority of hunters I have met here in IL do not think you need a AWB or a handgun with more than 10 rounds.

Ilbob said it right that the hunter crowd does not consider guns an issue. Blago has not tried to take away their hunting rifles and shotguns YET. The FOID card is not that big a deal to them because they buy the proganda saying it will lower crime. As long as Blago allows them to keep their shotguns and hunting rifles they will not be on our side. The FOID card issue was a thorn in their side but since Blago fixed it they are quiet.

Pretty much they (hunters and skeet shooters) want to be able to hunt and shoot clays without any government action. Thats the jist of it. And Blago knows that he can count on their support as long as he doesnt touch their guns.

The trick for IL to get CCW would be to get Blago out of office and Daley out. That is obvious. We have to make other issues the focus of why we want them out. Guns are only important to us pro gunners and antis. We need to focus more on the budget, the corruption, the cronie and good ol' boy system, and then we need to keep the voters attention on that and off the gun issue.

In 2004 we had a CCW bill in the state legislature. It was put into committee and killed if I remember correctly. The trick is to get the Agriculture committee (I believe it was that committee) staffed with Pro gunners. We also need politicos who are willing to compromise and trade some key issues in exchange for votes from other politicians to support CCW.

And if we are lucky we can slip it by without to much fanfair.

 

[Autolycus]

This is what is key to winning thehunters:

Pro-hunting does not equal pro-gun.

 

[Phetro]

In fact, the judge said state officials came ''nowhere near'' demonstrating that the new law was constitutional.

At the time, Blagojevich said he would continue to fight for the ban. Since then, the state has appealed the ruling, Blagojevich spokesman Gerardo Cardenas said.

Well of course. A leftist can't just admit he's wrong. That would require abandoning the leftist agenda! To the bitter end, chaps, the bitter end!

Leftists are nothing if not persistent--and being wrong doesn't matter--heh, they've always known they were wrong.

I would not bet on that. Hunters and skeet/trap shooters would seem to be our natural allies but many of them do not see self-defense as a big issue, and as long as the guns they use are not targeted, they will not consider the gun issue at all when voting.

I agree. 90% of hunters are uh...sheep in wolves' clothing. Or camouflage. All you have to do is tell them something about the "right to hunt," and they'll abandon all reason. Fools.