Hornady LNL AP Broke Before First Use :(

[Striker Fired]

You two get together and compare the serial numbers and see if they are close to one another.Maybe they had someone not doing something right one day,or a new guy,or a brittle batch of cast iron at the foundry.Could be something.

twohightech = any pics? lets see if they broke at the exact same spot.

 

[777TRUTH]

Hello everyone, 1st time poster on THR. Been a long time lurker though.

I purchased the LNL last week from Graf's and after 50 rounds the drive shaft broke in the exact same spot as the OP (the OP's pics would look almost exactly the same). Happened on the up stroke with only 2 shells in the case (size & PTX).

Called Hornady on Wednesday and they were very good about it and dropped the part in the mail for me (still waiting). I would rather have a working press though.

I'm willing to give the new part a try but will not hesitate to send it back and go blue if there is one more hiccup.

It's a Shame, I like the features of this press better than the 650 but I'd rather have a reliable press with excellent CS that rarely gets used rather than an unreliable press with excellent CS that gets used often.

FWIW I was loading 9mm using the Hornady New Dimension dies with the Hornady .355 PTX, Serial # 361XX

Seems to be more wide spread than I was told by Hornady.

 

[dbarnhart]

Uh Oh. That's three.

john16443: you may want to call Hornday, explain that you've experienced the same problem, it's being taken care of my Cabellas but you wanted to give them a heads-up.

All three of you should probably call Hornady back and give them your serial numbers.

If Hornady operates like any other good manufacturer, having three such failures will start them scrambling. The serial numbers will be a big help in determining the scope of the problem.

(Somewhere there is a subcontractor in a world of hurt and he doesn't know it yet.)

 

[777TRUTH]

Gave them my serial # on the phone.

I will give them credit where it is due, my call was one of the best CS experiences I have had. Hornady's recorded message while on hold is hilarious.

 

[newrugersafan]

I agree with the bad casting, my LnL has loaded many thousands of rounds with no issues other then a damaged case retention spring. My fault on the spring Hornady promptly sent me a couple free of charge.

I tighten my shell plates with the wrench provided, snug but not over-done. I also sometimes allow my crimp die to touch the shell plate to get a better crimp on my 44 specials. So far no problems and if I do manage to break something I have no doubt that Hornady will take care of it.

I think it would be very helpfull to do as dbarnhart suggested and contact Hornady with your serial numbers. This will allow them to do some research maybe they changed vendors on that part. They can also make sure they have some extras on hand to send out as needed, that way if there are others with the same problem the customer will not have to wait on low inventory.


Mike

 

[Striker Fired]

I had just gotten mine from Midway a little over a 6 weeks ago,could you guys pm me with your full s/n,I'd like to see where mine falls.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Striker,

Back in January of 2010, I started a thread here on Hornady L&L serial numbers. The URL is as follows,

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=500013

and I hope it works to take you to the thread. I think there were about 40 folks who provided information as to when they bought their machine and what the serial number was. I kept updating new information until the thread died out in March.


I kept the information on a spreadsheet and changed it whenever someone gave me new info. The last list I posted was as follows:



--------Hornady LNL AP Serial Numbers & Dates Purchased---------
--------------------------------- Original Type -------------------
---Serial #-----When Bought------Case Kicker-----Member Reporting
----1,525-----June?----1997------Wire eject-------Dave Wile
----4,279-----Aug------2001------Wire eject-------Sommerled
----7,078-----Mar------2004-----------------------Robctwo
----8,866-----May------2005-----------------------Canuck IL
---11,027-----Jan------2008------Wire eject-------Wilburt
---11,778-----Aug------2007------Wire eject-------SPW1
---11,885--------------2007?-----Wire eject-------Walkalong (Anthony)
---12,056-----Oct-----2008-------Wire eject------Sommerled
---13,xxx--------------2008?----------------------KY Jelly
---13,050-----Feb-----2008-------Wire eject-------Randy
---13,100-----Feb-----2008------ Wire eject-------Thorn
---13,491-----June----2008-------Wire eject-------101 Voo Doo (Jim)
---13,978-----July-----2008-------Wire eject-------Dynamite Rabbit (Lee)
---14,281-----Aug-----2008-------Wire eject-------RNG (Richard)
---16,153-----Dec-----2008-------EZ-Ject---------Ole Farmer Buck (Van)
---16,5xx-----Dec-----2008------------------------Mongoose
---14,689-----Aug-----2008-------Wire eject-------Smith627
---17,410-----Feb-----2009------------------------Jeff Brown
---18,419-----April-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Vtail
---18,608-----April-----2009-----------------------Wild Willy (Bill)
---18,930-----May-----2009-----------------------Broken Wheel
---20,161-----Sep-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Dreaded
---20,777-----Oct-----2009------------------------Floydster (Floyd)
---20,900-----Dec-----2009-----------------------KB2
---21,761-----Nov-----2009-------EZ-Ject--------Sommerled
---21,949-----Oct-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Rkohut
---22,151-----Dec-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------NRA-Highmaster
---22,295-----Nov-----2009------------------------Dodge DeBoulet
---22,4xx-----Nov-----2009------------------------Crashbox
---22,492-----Nov-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Broker
---22,523-----Oct-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Glock20
---23,300-----Dec-----2009-----------------------The Hat
---23,4xx-----Dec-----2009------------------------Gryffydd
---23,766-----Dec-----2009-------EZ-Ject---------Fella5 (Scott)
---23,92x-----Dec-----2009------------------------1911pewpew
---24,xxx-----Jan------2010------------------------Macnewbie
---24,427-----Jan-----2010-------------------------Ole Farmer Buck (Van)
---25,067-----Mar-----2010-------EZ-Ject----------Mmorris (Mike)
---25,100-----Mar-----2010----- -------------------Caliber



Additional comments made by LNL owners are noted below:

---Canuck, IL - Reports that change in primer system came at serial number 7,000.
---Walkalong - Has a Pro-Jector with serial # 18,396. He also says the $29 he spent for his EZ-Ject upgrade was worth the expense.
---Randy - States that Hornady started offering the EZ-Ject system in Jan 2009. Serial number unknown. Converted his to EZ-Ject in June 09.
---Dodge DeBoulet - Indicated his press came with 3 powder drop tubes, two primer slides & seating punches; also indicated his powder screw tubes are not micrometer style which seems to be an add on purchase.
---Ole Farmer Buck - Hornady told him they started the EZ-Ject system with serial number 15,000, so his press at 16,153 is one of the first presses with EZ-Ject. He also reports he just got his 2nd LNL press Jan 2010.
---RNG (Richard) Upgraded to EZ-Ject in October 2009 and considers it money well spent.
---Gryffydd - Powder measure comes with baffle now. Purchased from Graff's.
---1911pewpew - Purchased from Midway.
---Fella5 (Scott) - Purchased from Midway.
---Mongoose - Hornady started offering the EZject in Jan '09--I bought my LnL in December '08 and it has the EZ-ject.
---Thorn originally had wire eject, but has upgraded to EZ-Ject subplate.
---Smith627 has upgraded to EZ-Ject - problems with 9mm. Has problems seating primers low enough
---Sommerled reports his oldest (2001) LNL press has the old primer system with the brass tubes where you remove the whole steel containment sleeve. I prefer this older style. It also has the primer plunger with thumb nut that is a poor design, hard to tighten and comes loose alot. Also the return spring for the powder measure pulls down at an angle with this older press and it sometimes binds up if not dry lubed. The wire ejects work most of the time when I occaisionaly rub a little die sizing wax on the contact area with a Qtip.
---Robctwo reports he has put 117,800 rounds through it to March 2010 and that it was rebuilt for cost of shipping one way at around 85,000.


I will keep adding data to the list as long as folks continue reporting information via thread data, PM, or E-Mail. Of all the owners reporting, only three or four of them report purchases prior to 2008. Obviously, Hornady has sold a whole lot of these presses in the past two years even though they have been making them since 1997. Presses purchased in 2001 and 2004 were just recently reported, and I hope more of these older presses and comments will be reported.

For a challenge of sorts, allow me to point out that I still have the oldest press (serial #1,525) reported so far, so how about some of those even older folks check their serial numbers and purchase dates and report them? Come on, let's see some folks report some of those LNLs with serial numbers lower than 1,525. I am not the only old guy here.

Also remember that I keep this LNL press info on a M-Soft Excel spreadsheet. I can send a copy of the Excel file to anyone who wants it via E-Mail.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by David Wile; March 21, 2010 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Adding Vtail's info & making change to Mmorris' number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you might find this info useful.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[777TRUTH]

Striker Fired, full S/N is 36181. Date of purchase 11/28/2011

David Wile, good work! Although you may have a little to much time on your hands

 

[Striker Fired]

Mine is 33594 (bought early oct) so it is quite a ways off from yours,which is definately a newer one. What was the others #'s,are they close to yours 777?
David looks like you have some updating to do to your lists,here are some news ones,and some problems.

 

[john16443]

Sorry, but I didn't record the serial number before I sent it back. I have every expectation that Cabela's will return it to Hornady and they'll see it firsthand. You can be sure I'll be looking at the serial number closely on the replacement.

My recollection of the events was that the ram was on the upstroke, and not even at the top of its travel when I noticed the issue. Probably happened on the previous cycle of the ram. The seating die was set so that it just clears the shellplate by the thickness of a sheet of paper, even though the usual setting is for it to touch.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I have started a new thread on the L&L Serial Number data (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7789254#post7789254) and welcome anyone who may be interested to post new information for their L&L presses. If you would like to add your L&L serial number, date of purchase, and any other significant data to the list, please post the new information to this thread, and I will update the list and post it. By the way, my L&L has serial number 1525 and was purchased in the summer of 1997. As of the last reporting in March of 2010, mine was the oldest reported. Anyone else have an older one?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[twohightech]

Yes, it broke at the same place my pic is the same as the one posted. When I put the shell plate on used the wrench that came with it and only snug tight. It was on the up stroke with out much force at all when it broke. I never get that lucky when I pull a slot machine. My serial number is 35974. After reading this not sure what to do with it? It seems well made on the out side,fit ect... Two draw backs for me with Dillion is cost for caliber change and only very few places to order from.

 

[Master Blaster]

Yep poor QC, there will be more of them reported here. BTW I have one in the 10,500 serial number range and have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it. Hornady really needs to get their Quality Control improved. Small tollerence issues that are not apparent to the naked eye or the the new press owner seem to crop up regularly.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I don't know if Master Blaster is joking about poor quality control at Hornady or what, but that is his second post stating they have poor quality control. Assuming he is being serious, I am going to address that statement.

First of all, we need to keep in mind this thread is talking about two or three incidents of folks with recently broken parts. Two or three - not hundreds. Also, one of those foks clearly said it was his fault the part broke - not Hornady's fault.

We as members of this forum simply do not have access to the data required to accurately measure Hornady's performance in quality control. All we can do as participants in a forum is to report anecdotal problems and take note of experiences reported here. In reality we frequently are able to help each other with problems, but we simply do not have accurate data to evaluate any company's quality control. For example, nearly two years ago on this very forum I started collecting data on folks with Hornady L&L progressive presses. At that time there were about 24,000 L&L presses sold in ten years, yet only 39 owners had reported information about their presses to the thread collecting the information. The information collected was interesting to me, but only 39 presses reported out of 24,000 is not really a significant number for evaluative purposes. And we should also note, the folks who were reporting their data were not reporting dissatisfaction with their presses; they were simply reporting serial numbers and when they bought their presses.

The L&L progessive press has only been on the market about 14 years now, and my experience with my L&L has been great. Other than replacing one shell plate spring, my press is completely as originally issued. Nothing broken other than the shell plate spring. That is a good experience for me, but that 14 year experience still does tell anything about Hornady's quality control. On the other hand, I also have two Hornady 366 progressive shotshell presses (12 and 16 gauges), and one Pacific 366 (20 gauge) press, and I have had these presses for many years - over 35 years. And before my 366 presses, I also had a couple of Pacific progressives that predated the 366. All of the presses I ever had worked very well for me. I never seemed to break press parts. If anything, I was more inclined to forget where I put something.

Yes, parts do get broken on presses. Sometimes it is the fault of the manufacturer, but more frequently it is the fault of the owner-operator. There are a whole lot of folks out there who own and use Hornady, Dillon, MEC, and lots of other brands, and they use them successfully. I do not see how anyone can begin to justify a statement that one of those manufacturers has poor quality control.

A few folks have reported some broken parts in this thread, and I hope they get things fixed as soon as possible. But their experience is certainly not reflective of the experience of the majority of press owners. Viewed objectively, these presses (including Dillon, RCBS, and others) are really some very good and very well made machines.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[dbarnhart]

I would not suggest that the three failures described in this thread are due to poor QC. It's most likely a metallurgy issue by a subcontractor. Poor metallurgy would not be apparent during any kind of visual inspection no matter how detailed.

 

[Striker Fired]

With casting ,it could be something as simple as a batch being to hot or too cold, or 1% too much or too little of an ingrediant that makes it brittle . Now if we hear about this on presses made six months from now yet, then that would be different. I'd bet all the ones that break are all from the same batch/run/cycle/line,thats what the s/n would show.

 

[777TRUTH]

Being a locksmith I know all to well things happen. Most of the time it is in front of a customer or @ 5pm on a Friday with no chance of replacement and I have to figure out a way to secure the building because the $400.00 panic device failed out of the box.

I wasn't going to post anything until I saw 2 posts with the same problem as I had on brand new presses. I was satisfied with the CS and am willing to give the new part a try but my patience is limited as well as my window to return a defective item.

All in all if I thought the presses history was plagued with poor QC or it's just a dud I would not have purchased it in the first place. I'm willing to give them a pass because of my positive CS experience.

Thankfully it wasn't 5pm on a Friday and there wasn't a customer in sight.

 

[joed]

I'm willing to give the new part a try but will not hesitate to send it back and go blue if there is one more hiccup.

It's a Shame, I like the features of this press better than the 650 but I'd rather have a reliable press with excellent CS that rarely gets used rather than an unreliable press with excellent CS that gets used often.

That's about what I would do and I agree about a press that is reliable. If I were making calls and waiting on parts that would change my opinion pretty quickly.

I have nothing against Hornady as I own Dillon and have been satisfied but you have to give them a chance to make right.

That's discouraging on a new press but that may be the last problem you ever have.

 

[twohightech]

I'm happy with Hornady Custmer service not a long wait to talk to someone and she seem liked she knew what she was talking about. The part went out the same day that i called with a follow up e-mail. I could have shipped it to them to check out/fix or back to Cabela's for a new one. QA has to do with how they fix/take care of what is in the field and not just what comes of the line. Where the press broke it would not show up until use. Then it would be a bad "batch" of the part or the design of the press was poor. It being that two presses bought from the same place and time both broke the same has to be a bad batch. John, I want to know when you get your replacement and how it does.

 

[john16443]

I expect the replacement press this week, will post serial number and experience with it. Fully expect to put it to work upon receipt as I'm off work for a couple weeks until January.

 

[777TRUTH]

Part just came in from Hornady, took 6 days thanks to USPS.

Took about an hour for the replacement.

Remove sub plate and its just a press fit onto the drive shaft. I found it easier to remove the sprocket, retainer pin and washer on the bottom of the ram which allowed the drive shaft to be raised out of the press to get a good grip for removal and a good view of the key for alignment and press on fit.

Tools needed

1 Flat head screw driver, allen wrench, needle nose pliers and a channel lock. Be sure to use foam rubber on the channel lock so you don't leave any marks on the stainless steel drive shaft.

Would have taken less time had I have known to remove the sprocket and drive shaft from the press.

Gonna try it out tonight.

 

[NWDave]

Just posted my serial number over on the other thread. Hope I don't have to come back to this thread to figure out how to effect the repair. Thanks though.

~Dave

 

[TxSoldier]

You guys are scaring me, I've got an LnL that I just set up that in the next few days will start loading on. I've fiddled with it a bit though already and haven't broken anything yet, so maybe I'll be ok. I picked mine up from the original buyer who bout it sometime in 2009 but never opened it. So it was brand new in the box, just a few years old.

Mine is ser#21305 if that means anything to anyone.

 

[Striker Fired]

Two that broke were less than 30 units apart. I bet john16443's # is right in that area also, which will definately indicate a "batch" issue. Waiting for his #.Someone should talk to Hornady about this(though they most likely cought on by know). This is how companies recall certain lot # of defective parts.

 

[777TRUTH]

Loaded 50 rounds without a hitch, all seems good now with the press. I do not like the Hornady decap/sizer die though but the PTX, seater and taper crimp dies are awesome.