Hornady LNL AP problem with primer feed
- Thread starter longdayjake
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realbuffdriver
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- Apr 22, 2006
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Thought I would add my experiences to this thread...
I loaded 500 rounds of 45ACP this morning without so much as a hiccup. No flipped primers, no missing primers. I stopped for lunch and decided to switch primer brands in the afternoon. I've since had terrible difficulty with the sled hanging at its rearward travel limit.
Here's what I've found: CCI primers are 0.119 inches tall and gave me no problems whatsoever. Magtech and Winchester primers are 0.118 inches tall and both regularly fail to feed. The slide locks to the rear, and from working with it I can tell that the shorter primer allow the next primer above it to move down into the sled and block it from moving forward. I can unjam it, but at times it takes quite a bit of "jiggling" to do so. I've tried adjustments to the base and the cam wire, and I've polished all parts to try and smooth things out.
Not really sure what to do now. The easy solution is to only use CCI primers, but I have over 10,000 primers of other brands. I guess I will try Hornady's tech support and see what they say.
Honestly, a change of primers and you wouldn't know it was the same machine.
I loaded 500 rounds of 45ACP this morning without so much as a hiccup. No flipped primers, no missing primers. I stopped for lunch and decided to switch primer brands in the afternoon. I've since had terrible difficulty with the sled hanging at its rearward travel limit.
Here's what I've found: CCI primers are 0.119 inches tall and gave me no problems whatsoever. Magtech and Winchester primers are 0.118 inches tall and both regularly fail to feed. The slide locks to the rear, and from working with it I can tell that the shorter primer allow the next primer above it to move down into the sled and block it from moving forward. I can unjam it, but at times it takes quite a bit of "jiggling" to do so. I've tried adjustments to the base and the cam wire, and I've polished all parts to try and smooth things out.
Not really sure what to do now. The easy solution is to only use CCI primers, but I have over 10,000 primers of other brands. I guess I will try Hornady's tech support and see what they say.
Honestly, a change of primers and you wouldn't know it was the same machine.
I could believe that. I try to stay with what works for me. I've had good luck with Federal and Winchester and stay with those 2.
Small primers seem to give the most problem but that's because they are small and easily flipped or knocked out of battery.
Hmm, with switching to smaller primers I also switches brands. Maybe that adds to the problem and with the large (CCI) primers one of my problems was exactly as described: The slide would often be stuck at the rear position.
As for the tube: diameter is the same, at least within 0.001 of each other. But length of the recessed area seems a smidge different (but harder to measure exactly).
As for the tube: diameter is the same, at least within 0.001 of each other. But length of the recessed area seems a smidge different (but harder to measure exactly).
Blue68f100
Member
How many primer to you have in the tube when you test? full (100) or < 10 ? If less than 10 I found out you must have a pusher rod on the primers to reliably feed when you get down to <5.
Take a close look at the sleds next to each other. Is the area around the primer beveled slightly, breaking the square hole? Also make sure there is not a burr. These are cast parts so anything is possiable. If you lay them back to back do the holes aligned? I know when I was getting mine so it was smooth if I over stroked it, it would hang, under stroke would not pick up a primer.
Just for a test, use a piece of paper as a shim under the primer base. I had a lot of primers from Wolf that had a tendency to hang, CCI worked fine though. The paper will elevate the body around 0.003" giving slightly more clearance. Which fixed the feeding problems I had with the Wolf primer.
Another thing to try if you have the parts to make it up. I know that Hornady now provides a plastic push rod, mine did not come with one so I made my own. I used a 1/8" brass rod with spent primers (large and small) epoxied on each end as a push rod when the primers get low. Since this has some weight in it have to lower it easily into the primer feed tube for safety reasons. The spent primer caps are perpendicular with the rod so there is no alignment problem. With this setup I can tell if the primer sled is in the correct position when it's all the way back. I use it kind of like a feeler gauge. With no primers in the tube you hear a thud when it falls to the base locking the sled back. I can run close to 800rounds/hr rate and not have a feeding problem with either small or large primer setup.
But at this point I would call Hornady CS. My guess is that they will send you a new sled, rod, tube and maybe the base to cover all the bases on there nickle.
Take a close look at the sleds next to each other. Is the area around the primer beveled slightly, breaking the square hole? Also make sure there is not a burr. These are cast parts so anything is possiable. If you lay them back to back do the holes aligned? I know when I was getting mine so it was smooth if I over stroked it, it would hang, under stroke would not pick up a primer.
Just for a test, use a piece of paper as a shim under the primer base. I had a lot of primers from Wolf that had a tendency to hang, CCI worked fine though. The paper will elevate the body around 0.003" giving slightly more clearance. Which fixed the feeding problems I had with the Wolf primer.
Another thing to try if you have the parts to make it up. I know that Hornady now provides a plastic push rod, mine did not come with one so I made my own. I used a 1/8" brass rod with spent primers (large and small) epoxied on each end as a push rod when the primers get low. Since this has some weight in it have to lower it easily into the primer feed tube for safety reasons. The spent primer caps are perpendicular with the rod so there is no alignment problem. With this setup I can tell if the primer sled is in the correct position when it's all the way back. I use it kind of like a feeler gauge. With no primers in the tube you hear a thud when it falls to the base locking the sled back. I can run close to 800rounds/hr rate and not have a feeding problem with either small or large primer setup.
But at this point I would call Hornady CS. My guess is that they will send you a new sled, rod, tube and maybe the base to cover all the bases on there nickle.
nojoke
Member
One problem that I'm wondering if there is a fix for, is the location of the primer over the case. When loading 38 special, some times it all lines up and other times I have to center the case by hand for the primer to line up....I need to push the case out, away from the shell plate center just a hair - no big deal, but I was wondering about a fix. I can either line up by hand on hanging cases or just push heavy on the ram and "crunch" it in....it works, just not a smooth and fluid as other times.
Ideas?
Ideas?
Ledhore
Member
Just to provide some balance here, since often all we hear are the problems, I have loaded over 15 k rounds on my LNL AP that was purchased a year and a half ago, and have no problems with CCI, Winchester, or Magtech primers, using small pistol, rifle, or large rifle primers.
I do not over-tighten the primer tube or the shell plate, I have adjusted the indexing cams twice, I use a weighted primer rod, and I have filed a small amount off of the large primer punch nut. I also have epoxied a short length of hacksaw blade to the casting where the primer punch bottoms out.
All of these tweaks were done at the beginning when I was having some issues with large rifle primers. The machine has been flawless ever since.
One observation I have made is that the sytem seems to work best when the ram is not run dry, so i keep the ram greased.
I do not over-tighten the primer tube or the shell plate, I have adjusted the indexing cams twice, I use a weighted primer rod, and I have filed a small amount off of the large primer punch nut. I also have epoxied a short length of hacksaw blade to the casting where the primer punch bottoms out.
All of these tweaks were done at the beginning when I was having some issues with large rifle primers. The machine has been flawless ever since.
One observation I have made is that the sytem seems to work best when the ram is not run dry, so i keep the ram greased.
Blue68f100
Member
Nojoke,
I would check the indexing first, if off the alignment will be off.
Make sure the base is clean where the sled rides. Anything (powder, brass shavings) laying in the slot will keep the sled from going all the way in.
And one last thing is make sure the shell plate is tight. If this is loose it cause the brass to tip.
I have close to 25k through my LNL w/brass feeder, owned it for close to 4yrs now. Like I said in earlier post, mine will feed at a very fast rate (700-800/hr) trouble free. Once every thing is right these work very very well. I have more trouble with the brass feeder hanging up than any thing else.
I would check the indexing first, if off the alignment will be off.
Make sure the base is clean where the sled rides. Anything (powder, brass shavings) laying in the slot will keep the sled from going all the way in.
And one last thing is make sure the shell plate is tight. If this is loose it cause the brass to tip.
I have close to 25k through my LNL w/brass feeder, owned it for close to 4yrs now. Like I said in earlier post, mine will feed at a very fast rate (700-800/hr) trouble free. Once every thing is right these work very very well. I have more trouble with the brass feeder hanging up than any thing else.
realbuffdriver
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2006
- Messages
- 63
I called Hornady tech support today and asked about the problems that I had. They agreed that smoothing and even slightly chamfering the edge of the primer hole on the primer sled would be beneficial. Doing so will allow the primer ABOVE the one that is in the sled to ride more easily across the hole without hitting an "edge".
As an aid to helping me work for a solution, they are sending 2 new large primer feed sleds free of charge.
Update
Here's my primer slide after some work:
I chucked a 1/4 inch panhead carriage bold into my drill driver and chamfered the opening using first 320, then 600 grit lapping compound. I finished the job with some semi-chrome paste polish and so far, so good.
As an aid to helping me work for a solution, they are sending 2 new large primer feed sleds free of charge.
Update
Here's my primer slide after some work:
I chucked a 1/4 inch panhead carriage bold into my drill driver and chamfered the opening using first 320, then 600 grit lapping compound. I finished the job with some semi-chrome paste polish and so far, so good.
Last edited:
Blue68f100
Member
The real test is how it works and did it correct the problem. My large sled has just a little less than yours so you should be good.
nojoke
Member
Could you review "checking indexing"?
Blue68f100
Member
Indexing of the shell plate. This is what makes every thing run smooth. This is best done in a quiet area for your listening to clicks. The LNL-AP has 2 index paws, one for up, one for down stroke. You need to watch the shell plate too, while you do this. Make sure the shell plate is tight before you start.
With only the shell plate in place run the ram up slowly watching for the shell plate to jump. While running the ram up slowly without hesitating and listen for clicks. If you hear 2 clicks it indicates the indexing is off. You want to adj the right index paw in 1/8 turns increments out (CCW) if it's not going far enough and in (CW) if it's over shooting. You can normally see the shell plate jump if it's not right. If you can not hear the click place a couple of fingers from your left hand on the shell plate, you should be able to feel it. Too much pressure and you will dampen the action. Once the detents get close it will cause the shell plate to jump the remainder of the way. This can cause problem of shaking powder out on 9mm rounds if this is happening. Adjusting it so it moves into position smoothly, will minimize powder spills. If you over shoot on the travel the shell plate will jump backwards spilling powder too. Do the same for the down stroke. You only want to have 1 click up and down. This adjustment is covered in the manual.
Now some more detail adjustment for the primer feed system.
First make sure the primer guide rod is straight, particularly after the bend that goes up (vertical) to the plastic retainer. This section of the rod must be straight for primers to have the needed dwell time to feed reliability.
Make sure there is no debree in the base where the sled runs. This area collects brass and powder so keep it clean.
I found it best to remove the primer feed tube and outer protective shell when making this adjustment. This makes it easier to see movement of the sled. Once it is adjusted correctly, there will be NO movement in the vertical part of the rod. This is critical to have the needed dwell time for primer to drop into the sled. Do a quick check an see if you have movement. If not your good as it's going to be. If you do have movement it needs adjustment.
Now with ram all the way up use the top adj (plastic retainer) and center the sled by looking down through the primer base feed tube opening. Now move the ram down to just above the bend, (Don't get into the bend section). If the sled moved out of center you need to do some adjusting. If the sled moved in or out, try adjusting the upper adj so the sled stays centered for the vertical movement. If the sled moved toward the bend, move the upper adj toward the frame. Then move up and see if it moved off center again. Continue the process till it stays centered at top and bottom of this upper section of the rod. Now if it does not stay centered no matter what adjustment you do your rod may have been bent during shipping. If this is the case you will need to bend the rod. Move the upper adjustment to the center for a starting point. If the sled moves out (toward the back) while going up the vertical section the lower part needs to be pulled out (toward the back) ever so slightly, (1/16"). Then repeat the adjustment procedure till you get no movement for the vertical part of the rod.
Once this is dialed in, it will feed as fast as you can move the ram up and down. Makes no difference if you change sleds (Large/small) this adjustment does not change. If it does your not running vertical. If I recall one size is more sensitive than the other.
This procedure will correct most all primer pickup problems.
Now if primers are not aligning up for seating, check for debree. It only takes a small piece of brass sliver or powder to keep it from going fully forward. If it's hanging on the seater, you may be riding the main press lever. The spring that positions the ram at rest is around the brass spent primer tube. Also check the seater to make sure it's fully retracted. Spilled powder can keep this from fully retracting. The best way is to disassemble it for cleaning, and sometimes a blase of air will work once you push the seater plunger fully out.
With only the shell plate in place run the ram up slowly watching for the shell plate to jump. While running the ram up slowly without hesitating and listen for clicks. If you hear 2 clicks it indicates the indexing is off. You want to adj the right index paw in 1/8 turns increments out (CCW) if it's not going far enough and in (CW) if it's over shooting. You can normally see the shell plate jump if it's not right. If you can not hear the click place a couple of fingers from your left hand on the shell plate, you should be able to feel it. Too much pressure and you will dampen the action. Once the detents get close it will cause the shell plate to jump the remainder of the way. This can cause problem of shaking powder out on 9mm rounds if this is happening. Adjusting it so it moves into position smoothly, will minimize powder spills. If you over shoot on the travel the shell plate will jump backwards spilling powder too. Do the same for the down stroke. You only want to have 1 click up and down. This adjustment is covered in the manual.
Now some more detail adjustment for the primer feed system.
First make sure the primer guide rod is straight, particularly after the bend that goes up (vertical) to the plastic retainer. This section of the rod must be straight for primers to have the needed dwell time to feed reliability.
Make sure there is no debree in the base where the sled runs. This area collects brass and powder so keep it clean.
I found it best to remove the primer feed tube and outer protective shell when making this adjustment. This makes it easier to see movement of the sled. Once it is adjusted correctly, there will be NO movement in the vertical part of the rod. This is critical to have the needed dwell time for primer to drop into the sled. Do a quick check an see if you have movement. If not your good as it's going to be. If you do have movement it needs adjustment.
Now with ram all the way up use the top adj (plastic retainer) and center the sled by looking down through the primer base feed tube opening. Now move the ram down to just above the bend, (Don't get into the bend section). If the sled moved out of center you need to do some adjusting. If the sled moved in or out, try adjusting the upper adj so the sled stays centered for the vertical movement. If the sled moved toward the bend, move the upper adj toward the frame. Then move up and see if it moved off center again. Continue the process till it stays centered at top and bottom of this upper section of the rod. Now if it does not stay centered no matter what adjustment you do your rod may have been bent during shipping. If this is the case you will need to bend the rod. Move the upper adjustment to the center for a starting point. If the sled moves out (toward the back) while going up the vertical section the lower part needs to be pulled out (toward the back) ever so slightly, (1/16"). Then repeat the adjustment procedure till you get no movement for the vertical part of the rod.
Once this is dialed in, it will feed as fast as you can move the ram up and down. Makes no difference if you change sleds (Large/small) this adjustment does not change. If it does your not running vertical. If I recall one size is more sensitive than the other.
This procedure will correct most all primer pickup problems.
Now if primers are not aligning up for seating, check for debree. It only takes a small piece of brass sliver or powder to keep it from going fully forward. If it's hanging on the seater, you may be riding the main press lever. The spring that positions the ram at rest is around the brass spent primer tube. Also check the seater to make sure it's fully retracted. Spilled powder can keep this from fully retracting. The best way is to disassemble it for cleaning, and sometimes a blase of air will work once you push the seater plunger fully out.
Hi all
Thanks for all your input. I've bought a new primer feed with tubes and everything now primer feeding is as reliably as it should be. My guess is that the old one was a bit out of spec there and another bit out of spec there which then lead to drive me nuts.
Anyway: Case closed, happy Hornady reloader again.
Cheers
Tom
Thanks for all your input. I've bought a new primer feed with tubes and everything now primer feeding is as reliably as it should be. My guess is that the old one was a bit out of spec there and another bit out of spec there which then lead to drive me nuts.
Anyway: Case closed, happy Hornady reloader again.
Cheers
Tom
Blue68f100
Member
Good to hear.
Look inside the old tube and see if you see any roughness. I had a primer pickup tube that had roughness in it and they would hang randomly. I had had it for 4 yrs before I used the large size and discovered it. Hornady replaced it Free once I called them.
Look inside the old tube and see if you see any roughness. I had a primer pickup tube that had roughness in it and they would hang randomly. I had had it for 4 yrs before I used the large size and discovered it. Hornady replaced it Free once I called them.
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