Hornady Lock'n Load PROBLEMS & SOLUTIONS!

[Silverbullit]

Yo mates,

I start this thread in order to discuss the problems with Hornadys LNL AP and share some help and hopefully get some help back.
Dont get me wrong, I like, prefer and own two pretty new H LNL AP presses. But ALL AP presses suffers from more or less issues - and I think we need eachother to get our tools flawless.

First pinpointing some of the annoying problems that demands attention in order to load succesful, any help here listing the problems so we can solve them is appreciated.

Problems:

1. Case feeder issues,
A/ Certain calibers as .45ACP has a tendency to get stuck or drop the wrong way (upside down)
B/ Cases sometimes bounce out of the sled.
C/ Sound

2. Case Ejector issues,
A/ Ejector wire crunches the bottom of your dies (Tapers and so forth)
B/ Cases "locks" the shellplate or go ballistic.

3. Primer issues,
A/ Failure to feed
B/ Primers get crunched or misses the primer cavity in the case

4. Powder issues (oh man, is there an end to this?)
A/ Case Activated Powder Drop Powder Through Expanders (All one big problem)
B/ The entire mechanics sliding on the threads of the powder measure
C/ Uneven powder dispenses
D/ on short cases (.45acp and down) the entire measure jumps if a Case is AWOL* causing the powder to concentrate and fill the first following case to OD* on powder.
E/ adjusting the Powder Through Expanders

5. Grease nipples, popping loose and drops off.

6. Lever loosing

And I guess more, and here is where you come in mates =)

I will now take some pics of my own solutions and post them in the following post, and I very much appreciate if you contribute and show us your solutions.

Kindly,

/Silverbullit

*AWOL = Absent Without Leave
*OD = OverDose


_________________________________________________________

Fixes/Solutions: PLEASE NOTICE THAT ANYBODY DAFT ENOUGH TO TRY M Y SOLUTIONS DO SO BOTH AT OWN RISK BUT ALSO YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY, just regard this as a peak how I and any contributor solved some of the things that bugs us out.

1A)

1A)
Cause,
an edge in the the top "V"-part of the tube causes some Cases to hit and turn - this will either result in a 180 degrees flipped case OR stock up of cases in the top of the tubing before the sensor can stop the following feed cases.
Solution,
cut out a shine through piece of plastic (from a candy jar) wich I have bent and taped with gaffa-tape (net-tape)
a tip here is to NOT make the plastic stick down to far as this in turn will result in another phenomen when 2 cases drop simultaneously they will stock upp much easier and also one more issue, but never mind, just dont make it to long.





2A)

2A)
I simply fixed access to a workshop that had a Lathe and sticked of some Dies at the suitable length,
despite what some claim - and I have the AP branded Dies (tapercrimp and so forth)
they are NOT possible to adjust so they work properly without crunching against the ejector wire.
See pic, these Dies has been shortened as you can see and now work flawless. (They way they were supposed to do from the box)




3A)

3A)
Cause,
The last few primers are to light to drop in to the primer-slide
Solution,
I made a simple wooden rod that gives the extra weight needed for the primers to feed all the way down,
it will also work as an indicator on how many primers are left and then "Lock Up" the primer sled when you run out of Primers.

More Causes,
Burrs, residues and crap in the path or upon the sled itself.
Solution,
Sandpaper both the "sled" and the "rail" then buff them real shiny and mirrorlike and your press will work both more reliable but also be easier to work.

 

[Darth Muffin]

Wow, I haven't had nearly as many of those issues. You make it sound like it's a POS and it's not!

1a: I blocked off the left half of the funnel that the case feeder plate drops cases into using some cardboard. That's 100% cured issues of cases jamming up there and has fixed some of the upside-down issues (maybe 1 in 250 now). This is not unique to the Hornady, all case feeders can do this with short cases since they work on the same principle.
1b: never seen this, sounds like it's just not adjusted right or you're using the wrong drop tube.

2a: use Hornady dies in station #5.
2b: jiggle handle when it locks will usually free it. adjusting wire to sit as low as possible with as shallow of an angle as possible helps.

3a: never had this issue
3b: only time my primers missed was when I had the shell plate misadjusted. A slight adjustment to one of the pawls fixed permnently.

4a: added a washer to increase the amount the expander goes down (.40 S&W), works 100% now. This is a design problem.
4b: ?? no idea what you're talking about, mine doesn't
4c: also no idea what you're talking about. The hornady powder drop is consistently reviewed as one of the best out there.
4d: see 4c. huh? No problems skipping a case here (.40)
4e: yeah, a pain to do the adjustment because you have to take so much apart, adjust, reassemble, test, repeat... but once you get it you can forget about it.

5: never seen that. Screw 'em back in or get different Zerk fittings from the auto store if it's a problem.

6: the pull lever? mine's solid. I suspect you didn't tighten it and the locking nut down correctly when you assembled. Try threadlock compound.

 

[Silverbullit]

Yo Darth,

Quote of Darth
Wow, I haven't had nearly as many of those issues. You make it sound like it's a POS and it's not!

Sry you take it that way, actually I like it so much I have two LNL AP's =)
I think ALL presses suffer from issues, and I further beleive the only way to solve some problems within OUR lifetimes are to get ourselfes down and dirty in elbow grease. And with this hope I started this thread to make our presses "bulletproof" if you will, wich I in all honestly consider them currently far from. So heres some much appreciated feedback for you mate!

1a: I blocked off the left half of the funnel that the case feeder plate drops cases into using some cardboard. That's 100% cured issues of cases jamming up there and has fixed some of the upside-down issues (maybe 1 in 250 now). This is not unique to the Hornady, all case feeders can do this with short cases since they work on the same principle.
Very nice, I solved this in a very similar way. Check out my fuzzypics
1b: never seen this, sounds like it's just not adjusted right or you're using the wrong drop tube.
This unfortunately occur regularly, unfortunately I use the correct drop tube.
Cause is sometimes it hits the Case Sled wich causes it to glide out wrong or it goes ballistic and flies down to the floor.
My humble solution, wich I dont have on right now, was to make sort of a "butterfly" like contraption taped on the Case Slide adapter that both reduced the fall energy but also guiding it to its proper spot. Hope my description is possible to understand...?

2a: use Hornady dies in station #5.
Use them, in particular the AP branded TaperCrimp Die and so forth. 100% impossible to adjust so it crimps without crunching the Die bottom to crepe against the Case Eject Wire. CONFIRMED
Also the AP die have in the past had at least two different lengths, maybe you have been lucky. I bought mine from lockstock.com and was not. (though I consider them along with hornady themselves and brownells to be the best shops in the world to deal with)
My solution, a Lathe... now working flawless
2b: jiggle handle when it locks will usually free it. adjusting wire to sit as low as possible with as shallow of an angle as possible helps.

3a: never had this issue
3b: only time my primers missed was when I had the shell plate misadjusted. A slight adjustment to one of the pawls fixed permnently.

4a: added a washer to increase the amount the expander goes down (.40 S&W), works 100% now. This is a design problem.
4b: ?? no idea what you're talking about, mine doesn't
4c: also no idea what you're talking about. The hornady powder drop is consistently reviewed as one of the best out there.
4d: see 4c. huh? No problems skipping a case here (.40)
4 C & D)
Check this thread out, I own two presses with the exakt same problem. Also I have, to my now spanked regret, recommended Hornady to my fellow club members wich now also suffer from this exact phenomen,
heres the thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=306747
4e: yeah, a pain to do the adjustment because you have to take so much apart, adjust, reassemble, test, repeat... but once you get it you can forget about it.
Actually not, sometimes it can slip down and stop belling/expanding the Cases. Had some incredible problems that started to occur after about six weeks, hmm making it pretty much around 12.000 rounds I guess. (I average about practicing about 2000 rounds a week) The context, it skidded off like crazy - regularly at between 100 - 200 rounds - making me as you guessed more or less the way I am now, nuts! =)
Everafter I had issues with the powder measure,
I recommend some heavy polishing & buffing and a HIGH QUALITY graphite spray as Moly Cote D123? whatever it is called, u know. It made my powder measures extremely accurate for a very long time, but now they, all three (have one spare), started to fluctuate in loads, the above link is the worst by far, plz check it out

5: never seen that. Screw 'em back in or get different Zerk fittings from the auto store if it's a problem.
5: Not pissible, for some reason Hornady surprised me by using grease nipples of a kind I did not have knowledge they even existed, a kind of below reason cheapass grease nipples that you "hammer" on.
Yep there apparantly are nipples that lack threads ! ! !
I got a couple of extra nipples, kindly from Hornady, BUT they proved to be impossible to hammer on as they came off in the first place from the press itself due to enlarged holes.
And as you understand it is impossible to hammer something smaller than the hole itself that makes the hole magically shrink tight, quite the opposite instead.
I got real nipples with threads and borrowed the thing you make threads with (dont know the word in english) and that nipple now works.
But the second popped loose a while back and I have not had the possibility to borrow the tools again, yet.
So sry Darth, no threads - no screwing around =)

6: the pull lever? mine's solid. I suspect you didn't tighten it and the locking nut down correctly when you assembled. Try threadlock compound.
6, but Darth, how do you operate your AP if you have no lever on it?
maybe it is my english, handle?
I fixed it with locktite, otherwise it unrailed regularly like a clock

I have a cold and a fever, plz check out my answers so far, I will add some more for you later my friend!
AND, Thanks for your tips and your help mate! =)

Kindly,

/Silverbullit

 

[Steve Koski]

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777036

This is one guy's fix for 9mm ejection probs.

 

[Darth Muffin]

I think the die/ejector interference problems you were having might be unique to the .45, being a wider cartridge. I've only done .40 on mine which may be why I haven't seen any issues.

Sounds like you got the grease fitting problem licked. That could have even been a warranty call if you wanted. Rather than tapping the hole for threads, they do make self-tapping grease fittings, I have a few out in the garage. of cource it as to be the exact right size hole to start with...

 

[vegasbillsliv]

Ejector wire crunches the bottom of your dies (Tapers and so forth)

I took a Dremel to my Lee Factory Crimp Die that sits in station 5. That die is cheap and I figured I'd replace it with Hornady's if I screwed up. I have about 1500 cases thru it and so far so good.

A six station press would be nice. Decap/size, expand, charge, powder cop or lockout die, seat bullet, crimp. My powder thru expander is working but it took a bunch of fiddling. I'm not looking forward to it having to be resetup.

I've had my LnL about 6 months. Usually I have some type of buyers remorse with purchases, but not here.

 

[Silverbullit]

Ahhh,

very interesting mates, I got real interested in that mod of the shellplate =)

Hmm... wish I could solve that powder through expanders issue thats killin me... than Id get my third LNL AP...

Darth, yep I got some new grease nipples from Hornady (As always they have the BEST service) but I could not spank that nipple stuck so I was left with none other option but thread it in.
(I cannot beleive this was not done in the first place in such a grand press to begin with+!=?)

Hmm, Ill get back as soon as I get some answer from Hornady about my Powder Through Epanders issue.

And if you have, or know, or seen a solution anywhere pleeeaasee share it with me/us! =)

Thanx for your input boys!

/Silverbullit

 

[raz-0]

Well, I can't speak to all the problems, but I can to some.

Station 5 dies vs. the ejector wire.

2A) In 45, i was actually able to adjust the wire to crunch but work. THe wire eventually wore down the die. This setup did NOT work with 9mm or .40 very well. So i replaced the wire, and just ground down my dies with a dremel. Works like a charm, but is ugly.

I have the old type of poweder measure, and it just works other than occasionally needing to be cleaned and maybe some light/dry lube put on in the whole drop tube mechanism area.

2B) 9mm shell plates are the only ones that sends ammo flying on ejection or lock the machine up. There is a problem with these. Namely thaty they are designed to be a fit for a bunch of cartridges, and 9mm is at the very low end of extractor groove dimensions. Try a piece of supercomp brass, and they work like you'd expect. From the factory, I could put 5 pieces of 9mm brass in it off the machine and they wouldn't fall out if I turned it on it's side or upside down. The answer was fairly trivial. One dremel tool, two felt polishing tips (the ones that are cylinder shaped, probably about 3/8" and screw on a mandrel with a threaded tip), and some green honing compound I got from lee valley tools. Take buffing tip on dremel, load it up with honing compound, insert into notches on shellplate (off the machine of course) at speed and get them shiny. About 2 seconds each notch. 9mm now runs pretty well. I get about 1 round out of 100 that goes shooting out rather than dropping, but it is usualy glocked S&B brass. .40 and .45 never had any real issues for me.

3A) I'm a fan of the weighted stick method. One very skinny dowel, some duct tape, and a piece of 9mm, 40, and .45 brass. This has largely eliminated failure to feed issues.

3B) If your primer isn't making it to the right spot, one of two things is wrong. Your press's timing is off, or it's hanging up on the primer ram. The latter is most common, and is due to crud (usualy powder) getting under the ram. This can damage the primer sled, and that leads to all sorts of problems (ask me how i know).

Which leads me to a nice big WARNING against the OP's advice on taking sandpaper to the sled and rail of the primer system. Don't do it. You do not want to change the dimensions. This can lead to primers flipping a lot and winding up sideways or upside down if you wind up with too much space between the sled an the bit the primer tube fits into. If your sled bottom looks smooth, then I suggest no more than putting some graphite in between it and the rail with the primer ram out of the press and cycle it by hand a lot. clear the excess dust and reassemble. If your sled looks rough, you might hit the bottom of the sled with your dremel, felt wheel, and some JB bore paste. But take it easy.

6) loose lever. Basically, as supplied you have two choices. Use the nut provided as a lock nut on top, or on bottom. One has you slowly cutting threads up the handle, and the other has it loosen regularly. Honestly, I had it set in the manner that cuts new threads, and actually threaded the handle in an extra inch and a half over about 10,000 rounds just from operating it. You REALLY notice that missing leverage much more than you would think. Now I have it the other way and have some plumbers teflon tape in there to keep it in place. Still have to tighten it up every 600 or so rounds.

 

[zxcvbob]

Loose lever? Y'all do know how to tighten a jam nut? Seriously, I'm confused by this; it seems like a nonissue.

 

[raz-0]

Loose lever? Y'all do know how to tighten a jam nut? Seriously, I'm confused by this; it seems like a nonissue.

Yes I do. The problem is that if you put the nut on top, and tighten it like a jam nut, Through the normal working of the press, you wind up basically screwing the lever through the nut and cutting previously non-existant threads into it. Thus resulting in a shorter handle and less leverage. It doesn't come loose though.


You can try using it asa a jam nut on the bottom, and then it works itself loose regularly becuase the natural tendency when operating the press is to impart a slight counterclockwise turn to the ball. So it loosens. If I had a strap wrench that would grab something as narrow as the diameter of the lever, I could probably make it stick just fine.

 

[Hunter0924]

Man I have been using my L-N-L a while now and I have not had any of those issues with mine. A friend of mine also has the L-N-L press and his is running fine.
I do not use the powder measure expander or Lee FCD.
Have you set yours up correctly?

 

[Bowfishrp]

Yep, dremel those shellplates and they wont be a problem. I did this for the 9mm and 223 shellplates and they are no longer an issue.

 

[Silverbullit]

Hi mates!

I am very happy so many joined this thread.

A couple of answers here,
Yep I have all the above issues.

And I have two Hornady LNL APs (Actually I owned a third, but I sold the oldest as it was becoming... hm not tight)
and I have or had all of the above and more problems with them.
And I dont mean to declare that the press is crap - it is my beleif that ALL presses availible today suffers from many weaknesses - instead my meaning is to share and receive tips on how to fix these issues.

Like the lever coming loose,
yes I consider this at first thought petitess extremely annoying.
For the following reasons,
It causes my consistency to change, I get ammo that is not as even as it would be otherwise.
(I dont know exactly what all the reasons are, but the loose handle will cause differences in the powder loads, the bullits crimp and seat deviates, the break to fix this will cause to alter your position and will cause you to hold and handle the following ammo slightly differently etc)

I compete and practice PPC, I did a little more than 100.000 rounds last year in large calibers, in other words I also loaded each and every round.
The always loosening handle after a bazillion rounds and loosenings will get to you in the end, I promise. =)
In my first LNL AP, the handle sat less and less tight, it got really rattly after a year. If I could have got it tight straight away it would never have become so loose and impossible to tighten, that was one of the main reasons I sold it. (Also I was about to put out money for upgrading the powder through expanders, so I put the cost in to a third press instead)

I fastened mine with locktite.



HUNTER, yep I fastened it correctly, it simply does not work properly.

And "the powder through expanders" assembly IS THE ISSUE.

If you check out my other threads youll find one where I have some dangerous propositions how to alternatively adjust and fix the assembly for caliber .45ACP.
hmm, here it is,



If you have any suggestions on how I should set it up to get it working without these mods I am all ears tho mate! =)

And beleive me, it would be a relief if I could go back to practicing the sport instead of wrestling my bugging reloading equipment!

Besides me owning two LNL APs I also have friends, that on MY recommendation, have the new LNL APs.
We all share these common problems, and the new presses comes with the powder through expanders and needs the new pistol rotos/micrometers addons to work, thus leaving no choice to assemble the ancient stuff in order to strip functions to get them to work. So did my last LNL (Got both my last within 3 years, the latest is less than 1 year.)

So... I guess we all need eachother.

I KNOW we all want to load ammo that is as good as we can get it, so get your thinkin caps on and contribute any ideas no matter how small, they are most welcome.

Stay loaded mates,

/Silverbullit

 

[Hunter0924]

I do not use the powder measure expander so I cannot comment on it's problems. I did tighten the locknut on the press handle and mine has stayed snug.
I have not had to mill the shell plate or die to get the correct throw or function on the press.
So far my L-N-L has worked great for me, I hope yall can get the problems straightened out. Have you tried the Hornady Tech line?

 

[bhawkeye]

Silverbullit,
I Just bought 2 LnL AP's with casefeeders & have the 1st set up and working for 45 ACP. I got a KISS bullet feeder for this one (Fantastic product!!!) and I no longer have any powder rotor movement with a missing case. There is a slight movement of the powder funnel, but not enough to cause any movement in the rotor. I believe that this is because the KISS for the LnL AP comes with a custom pte, that expands the cases slightly more than a standard pte. But I think the bigger difference is that this pte is also slightly shorter than the one which comes with the press. This allows adjusting to get full rotor motion, while barely touching the shellplate in the up position with no case present.
Since it is my 1st progressive press, I can assure you that I've had many missing case examples and after reading about your troubles I measured every one of the 1st 15 or so - NONE had a powder variance of more than .1 grain & most were exact.
Perhaps shortening the (from the top) Hornady pte would give the same effect? Again I'm new to progressives & not a mechanical engineer, but it seems logical. With the number of rounds you load maybe you should just get a KISS for your high volume. I think the KISS/LnL AP combination is amazing. If the casefeeder was as good as the KISS bulletfeeder I'm sure I could do over 2000 rounds per hour. I would probably still only do around 500-600 per hour, because I like to watch everything closely.
Good Shooting
bhawkeye

 

[Spartacus451]

Yes I do. The problem is that if you put the nut on top, and tighten it like a jam nut, Through the normal working of the press, you wind up basically screwing the lever through the nut and cutting previously non-existant threads into it. Thus resulting in a shorter handle and less leverage. It doesn't come loose though.

Try calling Hornady and asking them if they will replace the lever. How many rounds did it take to shorten the handle to the point that you lost noticable leverage?

 

[1911NM]

I have to pass on the case feeder, and powder through expander. I have kept it simple so far along with using a Hornady TCD and the separate expander die. Like the OP and other posters, I have had problems with the primer feed getting low and need to try a dowel with weight. Can I bring up a new issue, which may just be my own brain damage? Adjusting the pawls. Of course, they were preset at the factory, badly. I played around with just adjusting one or the other slightly, till I think I have them synched, but does anyone have any handy dandy way of setting or checking to ensure they are set correctly? Also, yeah, the handle gives me fits, but locktite fixed that up. Have had no trouble either with the zirks, but had (because my grease gun was out in the frozen shed) let the grease warm slightly before giving a just a touch through them to lube things. In other words, I guess I was conscious of not over pressuring the zirks.

 

[RUDY850]

I have not done any reloading yet with my AP press yet. but have had 2 problems with getting it all set up.

First i had one of the bushings not wanting to lock in place.I determined that it was the female bushing that was the problem. it was to thick at the top.

called hornady and they sent me a new one out. problem fixed.

second problem. could not get the PTX to bell the casing at all no matter how i made adjustments. even after reading other peoples problems and fixes for this.

called hornady. they are aware of a problem with this and asked me to send in my PTX. The new PTX is on its way back to me. It is a prototype. will see how it works out

The guy i talked to did say if I know of any one that is having this problem to have them contact HORNADY

The PTX I was using was for the 45 acp and I was using lead bullets

 

[bhawkeye]

I really don't understand the "problems" with getting the pte to correctly expand cases, at least with 45 ACP (which is all I have used). I had no trouble at all getting good belling with the standard Hornady pte, or the KISS pte supplied with the KISS bulletfeeder. You do have to do some serious adjusting & analysis, but it doesn't seem like rocket science. So far I've used only 230 gr. Hornady XTP's & Zero JHP's - No lead bullets. But, even before I got my KISS bullet feeder, I had no problem getting plenty of case expansion - & after intstalling the KISS pte, I could easily get WAY too much (or exactly the right amount) belling. All three of my presses were perfectly adjusted as received. All the adjustments I had to make were due to caliber specific requirements. Bob Palmer, at Hornady customer support has been very helpful with some other minor parts issues with my presses, but all the functional issues so far have just been a matter of my following the instructions in the user manual. Yes it's not as pretty as the Dillon manuals - but I have not found it to be lacking in content. But, you do have to really read it & use some common sense. I was very worried about getting back into reloading with a progressive press, but the Hornady LnL AP has made the decision pretty painless. I chose the LnL AP based on a lot of research into the technical merits of the press, but still I was worried that I might have made the wrong choice because of all the "Dillon worship" threads I read. I'm sure that the Dillon presses are great products & that Dillon customer support is great. However so far, Hornady has been great to me with supplying advice & parts - and the presses (2 LnL AP's & a LnL Classic single stage) have made me glad I made the decision to get back into reloading. The "free bullet" offer was a great bonus - but had NO bearing on my decision. I had boiled it down to either a Dillon 1050 or two fully loaded Hornady LnL AP's & an LnL Classic single stage. I'm sure the 1050 would have been great, but so far, I'm very happy with the LnL's.

 

[RUDY850]

got my new powder threw expander installed and it is working now.

now i have a couple more problems. I'm using trail boss powder and i cant get a good consistent charge of powder.

even tried the pistol dispenser with no luck. its just all over the place. hooked up my lee powder dispenser and that works fine.

also I'm having a problem with primming. i have to really push hard to get the primer to go in. and you can here it going in and then some of them are not in all the way no mater how hard i push. i have tried different brand primers and casing with the same problem. perhaps the timing is off but wouldn't this throw the rest of the stations off also. every thing is clean

 

[raz-0]

Bhawkeye:

Most of the problems with the PTE are with .40, not .45. That's why you aren't ahving a problem.

RUDY850:

When the timing starts to go off, the primer seating is the first thing to get strange. The next thing to get strange is decap/resize if the case is out of round. Then case ejection binds up. Then the decap/resize station gets cranky fro all cases.

As for the metering problems, trail boss is a really odd shape. I can see it getting cut and crunched by most powder measures depending on how the little doughnuts orient themselves.

 

[Roccobro]

Glad I bought red. Something about having 1k nice bullets and a machine I'm into for ~$100 cranking out ammo without me fiddling with the shell plate every round...

Justin

 

[Steve Koski]

The LNL AP sounds like a good rival for the "Finest Reloader Made."

 

[bigbird1]

from all I read they all have problems to deal with , Keithb will find out, just like ford -chevy. If man made it, it isn't perfect , but the free bullets means more shooting for less and thats what I reload for anyways . They both rate up in the top ,hornady was just half the price so I went with them.

 

[pinkymingeo]

The only problems I know of specific to the LnL are the powder-thru expanders and 9mm case ejection. I don't use the expanders or load 9mm, so don't have any problems.