Hospital Concealed Carry

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UFKAHR40

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Been researching and can't quite nail it down whether or not it is legal to concealed carry in a Florida Hospital.

If anyone has done this research before and found some documents supporting or against let me know thanks.
 
Check the rules issued by the state agency from whom you received the permit. THey probably have an on-line information page. As you know, most states issues rule preventing guns i nschools and government office buildings. They generally also have some language about hte right of private property owners to bar concealed weapons. So, if there are no posted prohibitions on the doors to the hospital AND the state does not specifically mention hospitals along with other proscribed locations, you may be OK.

If all that already occured ot you, sorry ot be redundant all over again.
 
Not in, or on the campus of, any Hospital that provides mental health services; which just about every hospital provides some form of psych counsellings. It's not in the 790s, it's in another area....I'll find it and post it up.
 
Here it is.....

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Source
 

It's not listed in the statutes that deal with concealed carry, ie: the 790s. It's listed under the chapter dealing with Mental Health facilities.



I just went looking back at a site I had gotten some information on this topic from in the past...it looks like the information has been updated.

LEGAL Q&A

This is a revised update by Mr. Gutmacher of a recent article from his monthly magazine column, The Legal Corner
CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher​

Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:

(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
3. Any firearms or deadly weapon”.

I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.

Source

From His Website said:
Mr. Gutmacher is a practicing trial attorney, was a felony prosecutor, police legal advisor, is an NRA certified firearms instructor, the author of the book Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership, has appeared on national broadcast network TV's NightLine, and primarily practices in the area of criminal law throughout the state with an emphasis on weapon related offenses, all felonies, as well as representing clients in ATF investigations, FFL license revocations, NICS database errors, expunctions, and select civil cases including defamation, false arrest, and malicious prosecution. His office is in Orlando, and comments or questions can be addressed via email (office{at}floridafirearmslaw[dot]com).
 
Billy H

I have read that law before and it pertains to transferring a firearm to "any patient of any hospital providing mental health services". I don't see where it prohibits carrying in the hospital.
 
Check section 1(A) section 3.

1(A) It is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital...(3)Any firearms or deadly weapon.


But as noted in the article above, it does state "except as authorized by law" so that does leave some room for interpretation. But I also agree with Mr. Gutmacher and wouldn't make a habit of carrying concealed into a hospital until some more definitive ruling. I don't want to be a test case...it's to expensive, at the least.
 
Thanks,
My problem is some of these hospitals are not in the best part of town and I often leave late at night.

I don't want to be a test case either but I will have to play this one on a case by case basis depending on the situation.
 
Trust me, I know what you mean. My wife drives over 25 miles to work, through some really not great areas....to the hospital she works at.
 
This assumes that a hospital actually provides mental health services to patients. Given some of the folks I know who have been in these places I am not sure that would be an accurate statement. A more correct standard might be "a hospital that bills patients for what they consider to be "mental health services."

That was a lame attempt at humor...
 
since almost every hospital is also a teaching area, they could be considered campuses and that would put it under the no guns on school campuses
 
Thanks,
My problem is some of these hospitals are not in the best part of town and I often leave late at night.

I don't want to be a test case either but I will have to play this one on a case by case basis depending on the situation.

REB,Billy H has done a great job of researching this situation.We went over this on THR about 6 months ago.
Gutmacher's advice is sound.You have to make your own decisions about this silly S.394.458.
Personally ,I carry in every hospital I enter in FL.These are some of our most dangerous places.
Concealed means concealed(I know,I know!)I'll take my chances and hire Mr.G. if need be.
My life's more important.
 
In my opinion, merely being a hospital does not make them "campuses" and therefore illegal from CCW. Many lawyers train interns and that doesn't make their office a "campus" for the purpose of training junior lawyers. So yes, you may carry in a hospital.

Most hospitals have a specific floor and/or area where they have their mental health types. These places are well marked and generally have some type of security you must pass to enter. Easy enough to avoid.

And finally, concealed means concealed. Unless you pass through a metal detector, no one is going to know you are carrying a firearm.
 
Most hospitals have a specific floor and/or area where they have their mental health types. These places are well marked and generally have some type of security you must pass to enter. Easy enough to avoid.

That is true, but they still do provide psych services where needed as well.


And that is all a mute point since the statute clearly states that the prohibition is in place stating "it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital".

It makes no mention of specific areas of the hospital. What it does say is that it is a felony to bring a firearm onto the grounds of, or into a hospital that provides mental health services.

Just pointing out the flaw in that one paragraph of your post.



And Winchester 73, thanks. Like I said above, my wife works at a hospital so we have taken a pretty hard look at this subject since it effects her day to day activities.
 
It makes no mention of specific areas of the hospital. What it does say is that it is a felony to bring a firearm onto the grounds of, or into a hospital that provides mental health services.

An again, in my opinion, § 394.458 says "(1) (a) Except as authorized by law " and the specific absence of "hospitals" from 790.06(12) (places CCW is not allowed), means that licensed CCW is "authorized" and therefore legal.
 
An again, in my opinion, § 394.458 says "(1) (a) Except as authorized by law " and the specific absence of "hospitals" from 790.06(12) (places CCW is not allowed), means that licensed CCW is "authorized" and therefore legal.

Agree.Gutmacher agrees.
I don't think twice about carrying in any Florida hospital.
The people that came up with S.394.458 are the ones that need the psychiatric attention.
 
An again, in my opinion, § 394.458 says "(1) (a) Except as authorized by law " and the specific absence of "hospitals" from 790.06(12) (places CCW is not allowed), means that licensed CCW is "authorized" and therefore legal.

I agree with that statement. But, the statement I quoted earlier had some very serious flaws.

You said that because psych services were handled in specific, flagged locations they were easy to avoid. That isn't the case in many situations (as those services are available wherever they are needed and wherever the patient happens to be) and the statute does not grant any such exception.


This is why I made a point of saying that I disagreed only with the portion of your statement that I quoted.
 
Thanks for your replys guys. So there is still quite some grey area as to what is considered a place where mental or phsychiatric services are rendered. I wonder if there has been any presidence set before if anyone has had any legal action taken against them because they did concealed carry in a hospital.

Also a great point about concealed is concealed, why would anyone else know if you were carrying or not.
 
. I wonder if there has been any presidence set before if anyone has had any legal action taken against them because they did concealed carry in a hospital

Yes,Gutmacher defended and won the case for a client citing the reasons given by hkmp5sd in post # 18:
An again, in my opinion, § 394.458 says "(1) (a) Except as authorized by law " and the specific absence of "hospitals" from 790.06(12) (places CCW is not allowed), means that licensed CCW is "authorized" and therefore legal.

He goes on to say a different State Attorney in another District in Florida may have a adverse opinion.See post #6 by Billy H.
So caveat emptor is advised.
 
The big hospital where I live is a very dangerous place. The hospital police are about as good as Barney Fife. To busy thinking they are above the FBI to do their job as security.
 
The big hospital where I live is a very dangerous place. The hospital police are about as good as Barney Fife. To busy thinking they are above the FBI to do their job as security

If your hospital is in VA and it is posted, firearms carry is a trespass charge and not a firearms(felony)violation with a CHP.
Again C means C.
You have to make your own decision,of course.Good luck.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf
 
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