House votes to extend Patriot Act

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rick_reno

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Oh good - we're safe for 6 more weeks. Whew, I was really getting nervous.

WASHINGTON - The House on Wednesday agreed to extend the USA Patriot Act for a month while conservative Republicans and the White House work out changes intended to protect people from government intrusion.

The GOP-controlled House used a voice vote to keep the law in effect until March 10 so negotiators have more time to come up with a deal. The Senate was expected to follow before the law expires on Friday.

Just before leaving for Christmas, Congress extended the law until Feb. 3. Senate Democrats and four libertarian-leaning Republicans had blocked a final vote on a measure negotiated by the White House that would have made permanent most expiring provisions. The Republicans were concerned about excessive police powers.

“It is imperative that we not play political games with the tools that our law enforcement needs to prevent another terrorist attack,” said the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis.

House Democrats said they did not want the Patriot Act to expire but are pressing for civil rights protections before renewing it permanently. The extension “will give members a chance to work together,” said Rep. Robert Scott, D-Va.

Added Rep. Jane Harmon, top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee: “We must extend it, mend it, but not end it.”

Law extended once
It would be the second time Congress has extended the law. Originally passed five weeks after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the Patriot Act was due to expire Dec. 31.

President Bush in his State of the Union speech Tuesday called on Congress to renew the expiring 16 provisions. “The enemy has not lost the desire or capability to attack us.

Fortunately, this nation has superb professionals in law enforcement, intelligence, the military and homeland security,” Bush said.

The law makes it easier for federal agents to gather and share information in terrorism investigations, install wiretaps and conduct secret searches of households and businesses. At issue are 16 provisions that Congress wanted reviewed and renewed by the end of last year.

Objections to the compromise last fall centered on the degree to which people and institutions that receive National Security Letters — secret requests for phone, business and Internet records — can appeal them in court.

Sens. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and John Sununu, R-N.H., say the law makes it nearly impossible to challenge such letters and their secretive demands for information. Craig told reporters this week that the White House had agreed to some changes that would address his concerns, but declined to describe the talks further.
 
I think the patriot act is a good thing, unless your a US citizen who is doing bad things. We need to track down and destroy all those who wish to do our country harm. For those of you that are opposed to the Patriot act please list your beef, since you have the right and we will all respect it, its not like we are going back in time to relive Nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia. The FBI has been tapping the mafia for years and so far no law abiding citizen has complained about that sort of stuff anyways. sometimes you have to get down and dirty to get the bad guy....besides,,,its better to be the hunter, than the hunted, instead of sitting back like the Democrats and just disarming our people,
just MY opinion though, everyone is entitled to their own.:)
 
For those of you that are opposed to the Patriot act please list your beef

OK,
note: I haven't read the whole thing, I am going solely by what the press has reported is in the US Patriot Act...I may have been misled.

- provisions that allow the feds to detain and incarcerate indefinitely suspects without filing charges, allowing the suspect legal counsel or even make the charges known to the suspect...all for being suspected of 'terrorism'. If that's in there, I can't support that.

- provisions that allow the feds to monitor what I read, what I buy, what I check out from the library, what I search for on the internet, where I shop, how much I drive, what Dr. I visit or any other details about my personal life...unless the investigators have shown probable cause nad thereby been given a warrant. If they're poking around in databases mining my (or anybody else's) private info without probable cause, I have a problem with that.

Those are my 2 biggies...but really it just comes down to opposing the slide deeper into America becoming a police state and to conditioning Americans to accept living in a surveillance society. I don't like the feds just voting themselves arbitrarily greater investigation/arrest powers in spite of clearly guaranteed rights in our constitution.
 
...Senate Democrats and four libertarian-leaning Republicans...
Source? If libertarian ideals are getting mention in major media, well, I think Gandhi said it best:
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
We're past the ignore stage, and moving through the laugh stage. I like it.
 
palerider1 said:
I think the patriot act is a good thing, unless your a US citizen who is doing bad things. We need to track down and destroy all those who wish to do our country harm. For those of you that are opposed to the Patriot act please list your beef, since you have the right and we will all respect it, its not like we are going back in time to relive Nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia. The FBI has been tapping the mafia for years and so far no law abiding citizen has complained about that sort of stuff anyways. sometimes you have to get down and dirty to get the bad guy....besides,,,its better to be the hunter, than the hunted, instead of sitting back like the Democrats and just disarming our people,
just MY opinion though, everyone is entitled to their own.:)


Depends on what point in time you compare. They had a bunch of minor changes that didn't seem significant at first, either. And both of those countries became hunters, also. They labelled certain groups unpatriotic, and then kept going after more and more citizens, claiming they were enemies of the state.

And tapping has been around for a long time..........with a warrant. The difference between what is happening under the "patriot" act and the tap with a warrant is probable cause.
 
its not like we are going back in time to relive Nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia.

No, today's governments have computers and can actually keep track of everyone. No tyrant in history ever had that ability.

If we fail to reestablish checks and balances Nazi Germany will become an example of "limited government".
 
Good! I need to communicate with my senators and congressmen that the Patriot Act needs to be made permanent.:)
 
palerider1 said:
I think the patriot act is a good thing, unless your a US citizen who is doing bad things. We need to track down and destroy all those who wish to do our country harm. For those of you that are opposed to the Patriot act please list your beef, since you have the right and we will all respect it, its not like we are going back in time to relive Nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia. The FBI has been tapping the mafia for years and so far no law abiding citizen has complained about that sort of stuff anyways. sometimes you have to get down and dirty to get the bad guy....besides,,,its better to be the hunter, than the hunted, instead of sitting back like the Democrats and just disarming our people,
just MY opinion though, everyone is entitled to their own.:)

You could not be MORE wrong regarding "going back in time to relive nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia".

They could only DREAM of the technology the FedGOD is using against citizens right now. Your post sounds much like the myopic "if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" sophistry.

Why don't you READ the damn thing...and then give comments. I'd bet a hundred dollars you have not.

I HAVE. It is to this country what the Enabling Acts were to Weimar
Germany.
 
Why did they do this. They know we dont like it.

There is little to gain. Are they afraid we will blame them if a terrorist attack happens?

Grow some nuts n' guts and do whats right for once.
 
KriegHund said:
Why did they do this. They know we dont like it.

There is little to gain. Are they afraid we will blame them if a terrorist attack happens?

Grow some nuts n' guts and do whats right for once.

You are supposed to be happy that they are taking more time to get some provisions removed.
 
YOU might not like it, but the vast majority of Americans who understand what it is and isn't do. And yes the American public WOULD blame the gov. if an attack happens that could have been prevented by the Patriot Act.
 
Why did they do this. They know we dont like it.

There is little to gain. Are they afraid we will blame them if a terrorist attack happens?

Grow some nuts n' guts and do whats right for once.

Why? All politicians are prostitutes for their corporate pimps. The more control they have over the population, the better able they are to serve their corporate pimps. This is why almost every politician supports gun control, regardless of what they tell us. This is why George Bush would have signed the AWB had it crossed his desk.

Fortunately our Constitution works pretty well, for the most part, and we still live in the best country on earth when it comes to liberty and freedom. The Patriot Act is an attempt to do something about that situation. Apparently $10.1 billion last quarter just wasn't enough for Exxon.
 
YOU might not like it, but the vast majority of Americans who understand what it is and isn't do.

Source?

September 11, 2001, equates to nothing more then a lucky bloody nose caused by a third-rate tribal entity. As a nation, we've overreacted.

I am an American Indian -- so it hurts to say this -- but what we've done is the equal to what shutting down westward advancement would have been after the Little Bighorn. (Another bloody nose, although I'll place causation on the US Calvary and the Removal process.)

"Changing America, to preserve America, leaves us with something less then America." :banghead:
 
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
There it is. H.R.3162
Rant to follow...
I dare anyone to TRY and make sense of it unless you have the ENTIRE justice code at hand and speak .gov legalese with no interpretor needed...

Rushed through Congress in HOW MANY DAYS??? (Sept 11 to Oct 24 = 43 days) I'm sure it just rolled off the old silver-tongue and that none of the various parts had been lingering in committee, waiting to be tied together and placed before the Senate President in record time.

Neither read nor discussed, debated by any of the elected officials who VOTED IT UP. Knee-jerk emotional legislation with no checks & balance from either party... I guess it must be a mandate from the people.
"Freedoms, be gone with you. OUT I say. Safety and Big Brother... that's what the people clamor for. That's what they NEED. That's what they deserve."

In the right hands it MIGHT be a useful tool to combat "Enemies Of The STATE". Let's be sure to define "enemies of the state" such that we all agree on connotation in the here and now... (and tomorrow too)

In the wrong hands... you, we, I, am the enemy of my/our politically elected officials who have been known to use FBI files for questionable purposes, who have sicced the IRS on known opponents, who can now hold you, me, we indefinitely, habeas corpus be darned, should we become a real threat to our nations well being (what assault rifle or arsenal are you talking about? It's a self loading semi-automatic rifle with detachable magazine and has a pistol grip for Pete's sake and yeah I have a few other firearms and also have over a thousand rounds of ammo and a few pounds of gunpowder... so what?)

But hey. I've done nothing wrong today. (I think) What do I have to worry about? We NEED a bigger .gov watching out for us. Soon, 1/2 the population will be on the public payroll watching over the other half who need to generate enough tax dollars to pay our watchdog's salaries.

How reassuring.
Rant mode off. I'll go back to being meek and secure, knowing that my Congress is ready to pass yet another LAW making this a little safer America.
 
longhorngunman said:
YOU might not like it, but the vast majority of Americans who understand what it is and isn't do. And yes the American public WOULD blame the gov. if an attack happens that could have been prevented by the Patriot Act.


Funny thing is over 90% of the Americans only know what the goverment tells them it is. Be that the Patroit Act or 911. I for one can't believe anyone who supports the Constitution would even think about going along with this. The history of the goverments shows many times how much the average American can trust the ruling Elite
 
Then perhaps you need to get out more. As to the post about 9/11 being no big deal, well, your opinion(mods getting ready to strike) is your opinion.:rolleyes:
 
palerider1 said:
I think the patriot act is a good thing, unless your a US citizen who is doing bad things. We need to track down and destroy all those who wish to do our country harm. For those of you that are opposed to the Patriot act please list your beef, since you have the right and we will all respect it, its not like we are going back in time to relive Nazi Germany or Stalin's reign over Russia. The FBI has been tapping the mafia for years and so far no law abiding citizen has complained about that sort of stuff anyways. sometimes you have to get down and dirty to get the bad guy....besides,,,its better to be the hunter, than the hunted, instead of sitting back like the Democrats and just disarming our people,
just MY opinion though, everyone is entitled to their own.:)


The USA PATRIOT Act is a revamped version of Clinton's Terroism Bill. If he had tried to push it through everyone one this board would have screamed bloody murder.
 
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