How are mom and pop gun shops still around?

[anothernewb]

mom and pop will always survive the way every small store has learned to survive in the age of the internet and the big box stores.

if they can't compete on price. They have to compete on service. or carry items the big boxes can't/don't.

My LGS is a mom and pop shop. he keeps his margins pretty low on things like powder and primers, so they're higher, but not exorbitantly. but he's the only transfer deal in town, and he pays fair on trade ins. not to mention being a great location for used firearms. He'll receive orders from anywhere you send his FFL to. and transfers are $25. On consignment sales, it's 10%. In that way - the other retails in town have nothing on him.

 

[ilbob]

I cannot say that my experience with the smaller shops has been all that great. They all seem to have the same kind of attitude toward their customers that they are doing you a favor by selling to you.

 

[hdwhit]

Hanzo 581 wrote:
How do places like this exist in a world where not only do you have to compete with online sales, but now the "panic" is over and people aren't buying like they used to? Are we going to see a lot of places folding in the months to come?

It's not just limited to the LGS struggling to adjust to the end of panic buying. Nationwide, retailers - from Walmart on down - are having to try and figure out how they compete with on-line retailers who are essentially using them as unaffilitated "showrooms". And, yes, retailers are closing strores at an increasing pace as they can't pay their bills from people who just come in to look at merchandise before ordering it from Etsy.

Throughout the rest of the decade Americans have to make a stark choice; are we going to continue to chase the lowest price for every item in the name of "having the most toys" regardless of the consequences to our economy, neighborhoods and bottom-lines? Several posters here have said something to the effect of "I go look at it in the retail store and buy it for less on-line". Well, how long does that paradigm last? Until the last retailer finishes burning through their cash reserves and then you end up with a sky full of Amazon drones delivering stuff to people when their welfare check comes.

 

[hdwhit]

Hanzo581 wrote:
Then I heard a sale on the radio from another local shop, buy one get one free pistol. I call them up....it's a Taurus TCP or a Slim 709......priced at $350. So you jack the price of the gun up to cover your fake buy one get one deal?

Academy is currently selling the Taurus 709 for $299 and the TCP for $199, so getting them both for $350 doesn't sound like all that bad a deal.

 

[redneck2]

My favorite LGS has firearm prices significantly lower than Bass Pro/Cabelas. I try to buy from them whenever I can. Got a Trijcon RX-30 for $408. Can't find it even close to that anywhere else that I found

 

[Hanzo581]

Academy is currently selling the Taurus 709 for $299 and the TCP for $199, so getting them both for $350 doesn't sound like all that bad a deal.

Even using those high prices as an example, it's still dishonest to sell it as buy one get one free. I can get the TCP for $189 and the 709 for $199. Is it a savings getting them for $350 a pair? Yes. Is it BOGO. No.

 

[Jason_W]

The shops in my city must have gotten together and colluded. Transfer fees for internet purchases all seem to be in the $75 to $100 range. When you factor that in plus shipping, there's not much savings over a purchase at an LGS or overpriced Bass Pro.

An Idea I had kicked around once was starting a shop that keeps no firearms in stock and only sells transfers and maybe some peripherals (optics etc.) It would greatly reduce overhead and make a shop less of a target for burglary.

I worked at a gun shop for a bit and I know that even on an overpriced new gun, the margins are slim. Further, if you buy a gun from a wholesaler and it in turn doesn't sell, you effectively have money locked up sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

Maybe the way of the future is such that there's no profit for a small operation in selling goods, but there will be in services.

 

[BobbyV]

I think a lot of mom and pop stores are surviving by also selling on Gunbroker and the like, which gives them a larger audience and allows them to move merchandise better when they can't do so locally.

It seems like every 3rd or 4th listing I see on GB.com has a warning that goes something like: Be aware that this item
is also for sale in our store, and therefore is subject be withdrawn before ending if there are no bids.

Cheers

Could be . . . but as an FFL holder I can't see how anyone makes a penny on Gunbroker.

 

[BobbyV]

The shops in my city must have gotten together and colluded. Transfer fees for internet purchases all seem to be in the $75 to $100 range. When you factor that in plus shipping, there's not much savings over a purchase at an LGS or overpriced Bass Pro.

An Idea I had kicked around once was starting a shop that keeps no firearms in stock and only sells transfers and maybe some peripherals (optics etc.) It would greatly reduce overhead and make a shop less of a target for burglary.

I worked at a gun shop for a bit and I know that even on an overpriced new gun, the margins are slim. Further, if you buy a gun from a wholesaler and it in turn doesn't sell, you effectively have money locked up sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

Maybe the way of the future is such that there's no profit for a small operation in selling goods, but there will be in services.

Holy crap . . . that's highway robbery for transfers. I'm home-based and have pretty much decided to only do transfers for folks I know. It really isn't worth my time to try and coordinate everything for strangers. I work full-time and will often have to rearrange schedules to get the firearm and then worry about connecting with the buyer. Totally not worth it.

 

[Hanzo581]

The shops in my city must have gotten together and colluded. Transfer fees for internet purchases all seem to be in the $75 to $100 range. When you factor that in plus shipping, there's not much savings over a purchase at an LGS or overpriced Bass Pro.

An Idea I had kicked around once was starting a shop that keeps no firearms in stock and only sells transfers and maybe some peripherals (optics etc.) It would greatly reduce overhead and make a shop less of a target for burglary.

I worked at a gun shop for a bit and I know that even on an overpriced new gun, the margins are slim. Further, if you buy a gun from a wholesaler and it in turn doesn't sell, you effectively have money locked up sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

Maybe the way of the future is such that there's no profit for a small operation in selling goods, but there will be in services.

Undercut the other places on transfer fees, make sure you are listed as a preferred partner on buds and grabagun and you'd have something. Plus, if you stuck with used guns and accessories your margins would surely be better.

 

[forward observer]

Could be . . . but as an FFL holder I can't see how anyone makes a penny on Gunbroker.

Maybe not on new stuff, but there's good money to be made on used if the the vendor can get it cheap enough. Stores that deal in both new and used tend to pay rock bottom prices for used and the seller is many times at their mercy--this is particularly true of pawn shops that deal in firearms.

The store can then mark it up from 2x to 4x their cost, stick it on line to reach a wide audience and still make a good profit after site commission.

On the other hand if they have new stuff that isn't moving, they can stick it on Gunbroker and once again increase their selling potential 20 fold.
Even if they just break even, they are moving inventory to obtain cash that they can use to stock more profitable merchandise. Most sellers are going to structure their listing to at least break even and/or make some profit.

Cheers

 

[tsieger]

Like always, I think it depends on the location. I've dealt with several different local shops. Some have been awesome (both service and pricing) and others have been way over-priced. I'm a big fan of supporting local, so if I can do it, I will. The local shops I've seen usually offer a good deal of used guns, both their own and consignment. Usually you can swing a good deal with them. Their used stuff can sometimes be slightly higher, but sometimes its worth it for the good service. And if you make friends with the owners, you can get good service in the future for accessories, parts, and repairs.

If you're looking in WI, some great local shops are Dam Road Guns (Whitewater/Delavan) and Freedom Arms Unlimited (Oconomowoc). Usually fair priced. Freedom Arms also does cleanings, repairs, sightings, and other work. Great shop.

 

[salpal48]

I enjoy going into small shops, But deep down you Know they are Doomed. . everything a small shop Has It is Generally Owned Or Consigned. Most Have no Credit. . Al the Big stores. Cabella, Bass pro, walmart, Dicks, and the rest. There On what as Know in The industry as Open Receipt. . The factories and /Or distributers.
hold all the notes Until and Item is purchased and Paid . Then everyone Get a Piece of the sale. All done through Computer . The store Rents the shelf space to the Various sellers. . There reps stock it inventory It. and service It.. It's the same with Home depot, Lows all Big Box store.. The store Itself Owns very little. . The sales are sponsored By the factory or distributer.
On line stores do the same but call it Fulfillment. . Factory direct sales. without the end Customer Knowing. You can tell It fulfillment. when the Fine print States. " Do not send anything Back to the store Or sales site". All the distributer Does Upon receipt Put a Cabella, Bass pro , Walmart label On the same Item . Different Sale price But the same
I know This Because I worked in The Fulfillment Industry For many Years
Through a Network Of Computers . all This is done .
The only Human Interaction is The Guys who Pick the Item Of the Fulfillment shelfs and Put the correct label On the right box and ship. . Think about Did anyone ever Get the total wrong Item when They Purchased on Line. . You Say HOW did they Screw This Up. How The Item was in The wrong Bin Or shelf. no one looks @ it

.

 

[PegLegPeat]

I use Bob's to do all my transfers. I've chatted with them before about pricing. I was totally honest with them, I said hey, I want to buy from you guys but this (whatever gun) is $200 cheaper on Buds or grabagun or whatever. They just shrug and say there was nothing they could do. So I'll just keep paying them $30 for the transfers, at least that's some money in their pocket. Wasn't impressed with Ron Hess, maybe I'll give the Armory another look.

I have thought about doing this at my LGS too. I have no problem paying the online price and paying the transfer, but even that is often a couple hundred cheaper for the same item than any of our LGS's.

Several years ago i was in a gun store in a neihboring town looking at a pistol and the lady who was showing it to me said "He (her husband, the owner) doesn't want the slide run on new guns." I think I just stared at her slack jawed for several seconds then handed it back to her and said "I'm not paying new prices for something with rust on the slide anyway." I left and have not returned.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I support my local independent gun shop because the owner is full of good information, gruff, independent, and gives me a heads up when someone brings in a good collectible firearm....... I have yet to buy a firearm from a box store or a nationwide retailer......

 

[RoscoeBryant]

I almost exclusively buy at my local mom&pop store. In my area, they are by far the cheapest store regarding ammunition, and usually comparable to big stores on guns. The owner is downright honest man, if he can not compete with some online dealers on the price on a certain firearm, he will tell you so and actively offer shipment and transfer through him. This might sound foolish to some, but it is one of the reasons his customers are very loyal to him - you can be certain, you are not getting screwed there.
The only "downside" is, you usually have to wait some time if you want to ask the owner himself about something - he really loves talking to people and takes his time with every customer. But thats just another reason many customers enjoy his store
However, one reason he is able to keep prices so low: only cash payment. Not a problem for me, but some people complain about that...

 

[HoosierQ]

Around here, central Indiana, the good mom and pop places (and there are many) a) might actually have mom and/or pop working there during the daytime, and b) sell well below MSRP on just about everything except ammo. These same shops tend to be pretty heavy on guns and pretty light on everything else although this is by no means the rule.

Around here, mom and pop places are the go to for good gun prices. The only competition is Rural King where prices are as low as the level of knowledge, service, and courtesy. Plus, they won't take off the trigger lock so you can't even tell what the gun feels like in your hand. Conversely, ammo can be priced well enough if one watches for sales.

 

[godale]

I think a lot of mom and pop stores are surviving by also selling on Gunbroker and the like, which gives them a larger audience and allows them to move merchandise better when they can't do so locally.

It seems like every 3rd or 4th listing I see on GB.com has a warning that goes something like: Be aware that this item
is also for sale in our store, and therefore is subject be withdrawn before ending if there are no bids.

Cheers

i agree with that.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

I've bought a couple guns local near me. One shop in particular has reloading supplies so at very competitive prices.
On the 2 guns, I probably could have saved a some cash, but that's ok, everybody needs to make some money. {Actually it was 3 guns}

 

[jhb]

round here they always beat the box stores on service and pricing and sometimes rare but can happen compete with online prices.

they usually own the property so its much easier to stay in business without a hefty lease payment each month. plus typically gunsmith work and indoor gun ranges and other such add ons to boost sales.

 

[Mn Fats]

I buy strictly from a "father and son" lgs. It didn't start off as me helping to support local business. I price checked and they happened to offer prices similar or better than big box stores.
If not, Id be at wally world or fleet farm. An added benefit is they know me now and what I like. They'll alert me to something I may be interested in and even give me free targets. You can't get that at big box stores. But if "ma and pop" were charging $575 for a $475 Blackhawk (seen it) Id pass no matter how nice they were.

 

[Solomonson]

The shops in my city must have gotten together and colluded. Transfer fees for internet purchases all seem to be in the $75 to $100 range. When you factor that in plus shipping, there's not much savings over a purchase at an LGS or overpriced Bass Pro.

An Idea I had kicked around once was starting a shop that keeps no firearms in stock and only sells transfers and maybe some peripherals (optics etc.) It would greatly reduce overhead and make a shop less of a target for burglary.

I worked at a gun shop for a bit and I know that even on an overpriced new gun, the margins are slim. Further, if you buy a gun from a wholesaler and it in turn doesn't sell, you effectively have money locked up sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

Maybe the way of the future is such that there's no profit for a small operation in selling goods, but there will be in services.

Yeah, sell used guns, consignments and ammo -- plus be a receive spot for incoming guns...

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

It sounds like there is a wide range in the definition of a "mom and pop gun shop".
The one I deal with most is as "mom and pop" as they get. You need to call and see if the owner is there, he is the only employee. If the weather is bad it becomes a hangout for guys with nothing to do, pretty much a barber shop atmosphere.
I was there yesterday for an hour and a half to buy 50 brass. Most of the time is spent exchanging insults and complaining about politics and society in general. The dealer is also a farmer so he constantly complains about the price of corn, I tell him I'm tired of subsidizing it, he says I've got too much money etc. etc.
You don't get that kind of entertainment from big stores or online dealers.

 

[jhb]

It sounds like there is a wide range in the definition of a "mom and pop gun shop".
The one I deal with most is as "mom and pop" as they get. You need to call and see if the owner is there, he is the only employee. If the weather is bad it becomes a hangout for guys with nothing to do, pretty much a barber shop atmosphere.
I was there yesterday for an hour and a half to buy 50 brass. Most of the time is spent exchanging insults and complaining about politics and society in general. The dealer is also a farmer so he constantly complains about the price of corn, I tell him I'm tired of subsidizing it, he says I've got too much money etc. etc.
You don't get that kind of entertainment from big stores or online dealers.

one thing I've always hated about the lgs is the gunstore flies. like barflys but at least they buy drinks and fed the jukebox with quarters. these gunstore flies know very little have huge mouths, and are rude and arrogant. they take over the workers time with worthless exaggerated stories and then when a real customer comes in....the customer has to wait a long time and when they finally get service the fly then frowns and ridicules on what the paying customer wants and basically is a huge negative nancy level annoyance of the worst kind.

there are shops here i refuse to go to unless i have to, cause the owner lets these gunstore flies buzz around all day and then they complain to me on why their sales are so low and they cant understand why. its obvious, but they like their fly buddies worthless chit chatting and bs'ing all day.

 

[Reloadron]

A good friend of mine owns a nice brick and mortar shop which over the past 30 years has grown. When I had my shop we would exchange things all the time. He now has what amounts to three store fronts with the insides all joined. There is no money in new guns, you will never compete with the mega-mart retail stores. The money comes in used guns, stuff like buying estates and such. My other niche was a complete line of reloading supplies which nobody around me carried and also I stocked VihtaVuori powder which was a good selling powder. The way we survived was the niche items, having things the mega-marts didn't and the used guns.

I had my shop during the early and mid 90s. The shop was doing well and we sold it. While we were doing well my real job was electrical engineering and my wife managed a small TV station. We couldn't pay ourselves out of the shop what we were earning plus benefits and a pension plan. We sold the shop and the kid who bought the business managed to rape, pillage and plunder it to nothing within a year. Running a shop is not easy or cheap. There was business rent, utilities, security services, two business phone lines, insurance and the list goes on. We went 5 years and never managed a real vacation also. Most small shops are not really "greedy" as many assume. There are bills to pay and overhead before you start making your money every month. Anyway, survival is about having a niche or two.

jhb wrote in part:

one thing I've always hated about the lgs is the gunstore flies. like barflys but at least they buy drinks and fed the jukebox with quarters. these gunstore flies know very little have huge mouths, and are rude and arrogant. they take over the workers time with worthless exaggerated stories and then when a real customer comes in....the customer has to wait a long time and when they finally get service the fly then frowns and ridicules on what the paying customer wants and basically is a huge negative nancy level annoyance of the worst kind.

A good owner runs them out. Not like you are losing anything. One funny story. Guy comes in looking to sell a gun. I am looking the gun over and made an offer. This stupid kid, standing in my shop, starts bidding against me. Go figure? The moron is bidding against me in my own shop. The guy said he would think about my offer and left. I told the kid if he ever did something like that again in my shop I would just shoot him. Anyway, you meet all kinds.

Ron