soulless80
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why is that? i know some time back, the desert eagle 44 used 44 mag rounds, but not anymore?
i wanna grab a 357 mag but i hate revolver..
i wanna grab a 357 mag but i hate revolver..
how come .357/.44 magnum don't come in autoloader style hand guns?
- Thread starter soulless80
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Jim Watson
Member
It is hard to get the long rimmed cartridges to feed out of a magazine.
Look for a Coonan Model B.
Look for a Coonan Model B.
JImbothefiveth
Member
I guess it's difficult to design an autoloader that will reliably feed rimmed cartridges, but I don't understand why it's so troublesome to feed the .357 mag cartridge but not 12 gauge.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Mostly because they use a rimmed case.
Auto pistol cartridges are almost always rimless designs, because they work in single or double stack magazines much better then rimmed revolver cases.
There are also very few auto-pistols strong enough to handle .44 mag pressures. (The Automag uses a gas operated rotary bolt very similar to the AR-15 rifle.)
The length of the .357 & .44 mag ammo also demands a very huge grip, because they are much longer then any auto pistol caliber.
The guns are just too big for most people to handle either comfortably, or quickly.
Shotguns & lever-action rifles using rimmed cartridges almost universally use a tube magazine, and have a shell-lifter in the action to get the shell up to, and in line with the chamber.
No room for that in a short handy pistol.
rcmodel
Auto pistol cartridges are almost always rimless designs, because they work in single or double stack magazines much better then rimmed revolver cases.
There are also very few auto-pistols strong enough to handle .44 mag pressures. (The Automag uses a gas operated rotary bolt very similar to the AR-15 rifle.)
The length of the .357 & .44 mag ammo also demands a very huge grip, because they are much longer then any auto pistol caliber.
The guns are just too big for most people to handle either comfortably, or quickly.
Shotguns & lever-action rifles using rimmed cartridges almost universally use a tube magazine, and have a shell-lifter in the action to get the shell up to, and in line with the chamber.
No room for that in a short handy pistol.
rcmodel
Vern Humphrey
Member
The 12 gauge is mostly fed from a tublar magazine, not a box magazine. Three fifty-sevens feed nicely from tublar magazines, as in replica M92 Winchesters or in Marlin lever guns.
If you want .357mag performance in an autoloader take a look at a .357sig pistol. Completely separate cartridge but it duplicates the 125gr Magnum's performance. You still don't have the ability to use any bullets heavier than 147gr in that caliber though.
Pat Cannon
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easyrider604
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Desert Eagle was chambered in .357 as well.
What the...!!!
Seriously, please explain the hate.
I don't like autoloaders for the simple reason that looking for and picking up brass is not my idea of a good time. I love revolvers for everything that they are and can do.
ranger335v
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"I don't understand why it's so troublesome to feed the .357 mag cartridge but not 12 gauge."
I think it might have something to do with the oveall size of the firearm.
Few autoloaders can contain the pressure/power of magnum ammunition. And those few that do are 1) expensive, 2) heavy, 3) expensive.
Bottom line; get revolvers for power, get autos for spray and pray. I love my .357 & .44 wheel guns. And my old GI 1911 too.
I think it might have something to do with the oveall size of the firearm.
Few autoloaders can contain the pressure/power of magnum ammunition. And those few that do are 1) expensive, 2) heavy, 3) expensive.
Bottom line; get revolvers for power, get autos for spray and pray. I love my .357 & .44 wheel guns. And my old GI 1911 too.
soulless80
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well, the only reason i hate revolver hand guns is that, most aren't the best looking. reloading ammos is slower (unless with a speed loader or whatever you call it). I guess you can say, looks matters to me too. Performance matters too, yes! I want both
easyrider604
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Now we are getting somewhere. Performance says it all. Revolver trumps semi-auto. Just watch where you place your thumb/appendages when shooting the big calibers, meaning anything more powerful than .38 spl.
Stick around here and you may change your mind. For starters, go through the sticky "Revolver picture thread of all time".
Of course you need speedloaders! Try reloading a Glock without a magazine some time. Watch this video till the end. Jerry is THE BEST but the video shows you the possibilities
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/38877/fast_shooter/
JImbothefiveth
Member
Performance on what? If you are being atacked by bears, you'll probably want a magnum revolver.
If you are worried about being attacked by thugs, now you'll want something differant.
If you are worried about being attacked by thugs, now you'll want something differant.
easyrider604
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Then you need "firepower". Would an 8-shot N frame have enough firepower for eight thugs?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Spray & Pray ain't all it's cracked up to be in the video games!
rcmodel
rcmodel
jordan1948
Member
As far I know DEagles are still availible in .357 and .44
NonConformist
member
Find a 44 AutoMag-
sniper7369
Member
Well, I'm an auto guy. BUT, after I picked up my S&W 686 I am a convert.
Now, I still carry, shoot, reload for, and love my autos as much as I used to, but it seems that the 686 gets a hundred or so more rounds through it each week than any of the other guns.
Try one, you just might like it.
Now, I still carry, shoot, reload for, and love my autos as much as I used to, but it seems that the 686 gets a hundred or so more rounds through it each week than any of the other guns.
Try one, you just might like it.
gwnorth
Member
How on earth would you get your hand around the grip for a .357 auto? To accomodate those long .38, .357 etc cartridges, the magazine well and grip would have to be huge.
eg. 9mm cartridge vs .38
eg. 9mm cartridge vs .38
Sport45
Member
22lr is a rimmed cartridge and works very reliably in autoloading pistols. They do have to rake the magazine a good bit to prevent the rim-over jam. The grip angle might be uncomfortable if the same was done with a more potent cartridge.
Poohgyrr
Member
For a carry .357 Magnum Automatic, the Coonan model B is real hard to beat.
Just a tad longer grip than the standard 1911, and very accurate & reliable (when lubed per the manufacturer's directions). Only problems might be the cost of magazines, and the barrel tab. Holsters are stocked by Horseshoe Leather, or have a custom rig made.
Mine was the most often most accurate pistol for me. Truly a great autoloading pistol. I only sold it because of my goofy worries about the mag costs and replacing the barrel if needed..
Otherwise, buy one of S&W's eight shot N frames, with moonclips, and be very, very, very happy.
And sorry, but the .357 Sigs don't duplicate the heavy bullet loads; they are limited in what they can do....
Just a tad longer grip than the standard 1911, and very accurate & reliable (when lubed per the manufacturer's directions). Only problems might be the cost of magazines, and the barrel tab. Holsters are stocked by Horseshoe Leather, or have a custom rig made.
Mine was the most often most accurate pistol for me. Truly a great autoloading pistol. I only sold it because of my goofy worries about the mag costs and replacing the barrel if needed..
Otherwise, buy one of S&W's eight shot N frames, with moonclips, and be very, very, very happy.
And sorry, but the .357 Sigs don't duplicate the heavy bullet loads; they are limited in what they can do....
MCgunner
Member
Revolvers are stronger platforms and can contain higher pressures than a locked breach auto. In order to fire a .44 mag, you have to have a gas operated gun like the Desert Eagle, the size and weight of a carbine. Might as well just buy yourself a Marlin 94 or Rossi 92 carbine, better gun for the purpose of hunting, longer barrel, more shootable off hand. An auto can feed a rimmed cartridge no problem. Look at all the .22LRs out there. My Mk2 never misses a beat! It's the pressures an auto can't deal with, not a normal sized locked breach auto. The Coonan had issues beyond feeding and the .357 isn't that rough compared to a .44 on the firearm.
Hatred of revolvers makes no sense at all. For some uses, like outdoors or hunting, revolvers are vastly superior to autos. There is nothing you can argue about an auto that is necessary in the field. Their advantages of firepower and reload speed and concealment advantages are real for self defense and CCW, but do not apply to deer hunting or hiking afield. A revolver is normally more accurate, many times much more accurate, more powerful, and more versatile in the loads it can fire without problems. You can go from .38 wadcutter for rabbits to 800 ft lb loads in .357 magnum for flattening larger game like deer and hogs, all in the same 6" gun and with a sight adjustment as your only requirement. My favorite revolvers will group under 2" at 50 yards. I've never fired an auto that accurate. The Desert Eagles are supposed to be pretty accurate, but again, a carbine on a sling is easier to carry and shoot.
It's all about strength of design. Stength is one of the reasons I really prefer single action revolvers for field use to DA guns. Ruger Blackhawks are some of the strongest field guns out there and nothing sort of a 98 Mauser beats a Freedom Arms single action for strength. DAs chambered for stuff like 454 casull tend to take on the qualities of a Desert Eagle, better off with a slinged carbine, easier to carry and shoot.
So, like it or not, revolvers have advantages over autos and they aren't dead yet for concealed carry! They also have advantages for self defense, though I tend to carry a small auto most of the time. I love my revolvers, though. And, aside from my MK 2 and my carry, a Kel Tec P11, I find myself shooting revolvers the most at the range. Don't have to police up all that brass, just dump and put back in the box for reloading later. Get into reloading and you'll really learn to appriciate that advantage. LOL
As to .357 Sig, and excersize in marketing. There is no 800 ft lb 180 grain load for .357 sig and my light bullet loads out perform anything a Sig can do. I'd rather have a .45ACP or .40 Smith if hi cap concerned me. Just looking at energies, nothing the .357 sig can do that a +P .45ACP or a standard pressure .40 can't duplicate with a bigger bullet. The Sig is all advertizing/marketing hype. It don't even come remotely close to the .357 magnum for horsepower or usefulness in the real world. No one I know would hunt deer with one, let alone rely on it for outdoor carry in bear country or something.
Hatred of revolvers makes no sense at all. For some uses, like outdoors or hunting, revolvers are vastly superior to autos. There is nothing you can argue about an auto that is necessary in the field. Their advantages of firepower and reload speed and concealment advantages are real for self defense and CCW, but do not apply to deer hunting or hiking afield. A revolver is normally more accurate, many times much more accurate, more powerful, and more versatile in the loads it can fire without problems. You can go from .38 wadcutter for rabbits to 800 ft lb loads in .357 magnum for flattening larger game like deer and hogs, all in the same 6" gun and with a sight adjustment as your only requirement. My favorite revolvers will group under 2" at 50 yards. I've never fired an auto that accurate. The Desert Eagles are supposed to be pretty accurate, but again, a carbine on a sling is easier to carry and shoot.
It's all about strength of design. Stength is one of the reasons I really prefer single action revolvers for field use to DA guns. Ruger Blackhawks are some of the strongest field guns out there and nothing sort of a 98 Mauser beats a Freedom Arms single action for strength. DAs chambered for stuff like 454 casull tend to take on the qualities of a Desert Eagle, better off with a slinged carbine, easier to carry and shoot.
So, like it or not, revolvers have advantages over autos and they aren't dead yet for concealed carry! They also have advantages for self defense, though I tend to carry a small auto most of the time. I love my revolvers, though. And, aside from my MK 2 and my carry, a Kel Tec P11, I find myself shooting revolvers the most at the range. Don't have to police up all that brass, just dump and put back in the box for reloading later. Get into reloading and you'll really learn to appriciate that advantage. LOL
As to .357 Sig, and excersize in marketing. There is no 800 ft lb 180 grain load for .357 sig and my light bullet loads out perform anything a Sig can do. I'd rather have a .45ACP or .40 Smith if hi cap concerned me. Just looking at energies, nothing the .357 sig can do that a +P .45ACP or a standard pressure .40 can't duplicate with a bigger bullet. The Sig is all advertizing/marketing hype. It don't even come remotely close to the .357 magnum for horsepower or usefulness in the real world. No one I know would hunt deer with one, let alone rely on it for outdoor carry in bear country or something.
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