How Did The Commies Fight With Corrosive Ammo?
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dfariswheel
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And at least the Soviets did use a bore cleaner specifically for corrosive ammo.
It was an alkaline solution.
Apparently it had a storage life so it was made up once a week and issued.
Here's the formula:
Soviet alkaline bore cleaner.
Rifle bore cleaning solution is prepared in units in sufficient quantity for cleaning weapons over the coarse of a single day. Solution is composed of :
-water suitable for drinking-1 liter
-ammonium carbonate -200 grams
-potassium bichromate- 3-5 grams
A small amount of cleaner can be stored for not more than seven days in a glass container with tight lid, in a dark place away from heat source. The pouring of rifle bore cleaning into oilers is prohibited. "
It was an alkaline solution.
Apparently it had a storage life so it was made up once a week and issued.
Here's the formula:
Soviet alkaline bore cleaner.
Rifle bore cleaning solution is prepared in units in sufficient quantity for cleaning weapons over the coarse of a single day. Solution is composed of :
-water suitable for drinking-1 liter
-ammonium carbonate -200 grams
-potassium bichromate- 3-5 grams
A small amount of cleaner can be stored for not more than seven days in a glass container with tight lid, in a dark place away from heat source. The pouring of rifle bore cleaning into oilers is prohibited. "
TurkeyOak
Member
I got a 2 spout bottle in a pouch with my Mosin Nagant. One side is for oil and the other for alkali.
The alkali neutralizes the corrosive and the oil lubes. Basic field cleaning kit.
Of course urine worked in a pinch.
All ammo was once corrosive. Fortunately Hoppes 9 is from that era so thats all you need as a solvent. ( i do carry windex to the range for my Mosinka, though)
The alkali neutralizes the corrosive and the oil lubes. Basic field cleaning kit.
Of course urine worked in a pinch.
All ammo was once corrosive. Fortunately Hoppes 9 is from that era so thats all you need as a solvent. ( i do carry windex to the range for my Mosinka, though)
d2wing
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Standard Military procedure is to have an early morning formation with weapons inspection.
Your rifle is clean or you are punished or perhaps your whole squad. Not always possible in combat but all soldiers are trained to maintain their weapons and their is usually someone to enforce it. I did experience some hillbilly National Guard units with no disapline and extremely poor readiness in Vietnam. One idiot went out on convoy driving a truck with two flat tires.
Your rifle is clean or you are punished or perhaps your whole squad. Not always possible in combat but all soldiers are trained to maintain their weapons and their is usually someone to enforce it. I did experience some hillbilly National Guard units with no disapline and extremely poor readiness in Vietnam. One idiot went out on convoy driving a truck with two flat tires.
RustHunter87
Member
also with out moisture you won't get rust, and when it -40 things get pretty dry
tahoe2
Member
corrosion in barrel
Interestingly enough I was given a 1932 Spanish Oviedo long rifle in 7x57 mauser with a badly rusted & corroded bore.
I scrubbed it with solvent (Hoppes #9)a brass wire brush & cleaning rod attached to a cordless drill (first on low/then on high).
It did improve but not much, I did have some reduced (2000 fps) cast gas checked reloads (160 grn) and thought "what the he**" ;
so I tied the rifle to a spare tire and a string on the trigger. And hid behind my truck, like a little girl.
I pulled the string; "BANG" ... all is well, gun looks good ! I examine the gun, pull the bolt, and check the barrel. No Rust! Unbelievable !!!
So I loaded 5 jacketed reduced loads in the magazine and fired them, now the barrel is shiny inside. How crazy is that ?? That was two years ago,
...Now I shoot this gun with standard pressure loads (44,000) and it prints 4"-6" @ 100 yds with military sights. Amazing !!
I just Love mausers
NOW I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS TO ANYONE, a rusted barrel is NO JOKE and can result in increased spikes in pressure, doing what I did can cause SERIOUS INJURY or DEATH
Interestingly enough I was given a 1932 Spanish Oviedo long rifle in 7x57 mauser with a badly rusted & corroded bore.
I scrubbed it with solvent (Hoppes #9)a brass wire brush & cleaning rod attached to a cordless drill (first on low/then on high).
It did improve but not much, I did have some reduced (2000 fps) cast gas checked reloads (160 grn) and thought "what the he**" ;
so I tied the rifle to a spare tire and a string on the trigger. And hid behind my truck, like a little girl.
I pulled the string; "BANG" ... all is well, gun looks good ! I examine the gun, pull the bolt, and check the barrel. No Rust! Unbelievable !!!
So I loaded 5 jacketed reduced loads in the magazine and fired them, now the barrel is shiny inside. How crazy is that ?? That was two years ago,
...Now I shoot this gun with standard pressure loads (44,000) and it prints 4"-6" @ 100 yds with military sights. Amazing !!
I just Love mausers
NOW I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS TO ANYONE, a rusted barrel is NO JOKE and can result in increased spikes in pressure, doing what I did can cause SERIOUS INJURY or DEATH
Ash
Member
Most bad bores these days come from owners here not caring for the rifles. I have encountered very few, outside of rotten rifles from a forgotten warehouse, that had truly bad bores. Guys over here fire corrosive ammo but then never clean, that is how sewer pipes come about. Of then hundreds of rifles I have seen from the crate, from Enfields to Turks, the are usually in decent shape. Many have dark bores that never seem to come clean, but none of the navel lint or terrible corrosion I encounter in dusty rifles at pawn shops.
A primary reason for counter-bored Mosins these days are the fact that they actually cleaned too much, and the rods ended up damaging the crowns. Soldiers cleaned their rifles. Corrosive ammo was not that big of a deal.
You will note, though, that when arms were considered less a combat arm than a self-defense arm such as the m1 carbine, non-corrosive ammo was specified from the start. The understanding was that truck drivers were less likely going to clean their arms than infantry would in the field. So, non-corrosive only in those arms.
But Garands, 1911's, Finnish Mosins, Swedish Mausers, all fired corrosive ammo in their lives and all survived to tell the tale.
A primary reason for counter-bored Mosins these days are the fact that they actually cleaned too much, and the rods ended up damaging the crowns. Soldiers cleaned their rifles. Corrosive ammo was not that big of a deal.
You will note, though, that when arms were considered less a combat arm than a self-defense arm such as the m1 carbine, non-corrosive ammo was specified from the start. The understanding was that truck drivers were less likely going to clean their arms than infantry would in the field. So, non-corrosive only in those arms.
But Garands, 1911's, Finnish Mosins, Swedish Mausers, all fired corrosive ammo in their lives and all survived to tell the tale.
lefteyedom
Member
I think it was the use of a cleaning rod and cleaning kit.
I could be wrong
I could be wrong
I hate computers. I sat here and typed out a long response to how the Russians won with the equipment they had and my dog ate it - uh err.. my computer ate it.
So quickly. They didn't care if their soldiers died or not. They weren't trained or well equipped. But there were millions of them available so they were sent out to fight or die.
And the foot soldier won WWII. They destroyed German tanks with bazookas on the western front. The Shermans couldn't even get into the hedgerows but the German tanks could. But we beat them anyway. Then there was the Bulge. Our Airborne divisions won with bullets and hand grenades against Tiger II tanks, the best the Germans had. They were outnumbered and low on supplies and freezing and surrounded but they held out. And in Stalingrad the snipers held out until the Russians could unleash their T-72 tanks. Without those snipers the Germans would have controlled the river and the tanks could not have crossed.
So quickly. They didn't care if their soldiers died or not. They weren't trained or well equipped. But there were millions of them available so they were sent out to fight or die.
And the foot soldier won WWII. They destroyed German tanks with bazookas on the western front. The Shermans couldn't even get into the hedgerows but the German tanks could. But we beat them anyway. Then there was the Bulge. Our Airborne divisions won with bullets and hand grenades against Tiger II tanks, the best the Germans had. They were outnumbered and low on supplies and freezing and surrounded but they held out. And in Stalingrad the snipers held out until the Russians could unleash their T-72 tanks. Without those snipers the Germans would have controlled the river and the tanks could not have crossed.
AJMBLAZER
Member
...coughT-34cough...
caribou
Member
All you really need is water and a buit of rag, spit too and polish. You can clean and oil a Mosin, or any other rifle while walking, wrap it for protection, carry and hold it all the doo daa day, or clean and oil it and leave it ona rack.....
The obvious is that every man , regardless who or where needed and carried water.
The water dissolves the salts and the scrubbing takes off the crap, a light oil, of any type, to cover the clean bare steel.
I agree whole heartedly with Ash, U.S. infantry up untill Viet Nam used corrosive ammo too. It was the M1carbine's gas piston and vent that was rusting out bacause it was closed, so the US developed a non corrosive priming.
Most Junky bored rifle I have come across were imported here, most likely in good/issuable condition and some idiot bought one and a box of surplus.....and just didnt clean it again after shooting.....
From the US's inception with Black powder till the 60's, the US was as busy washing and oiling their rifles like all other rifle owners.
Back then, a rifle was a Mans tool and a symbol as well as a weapon.
They knew what would happen in they rusted, which at least, it wouldnt work or work long........ at worst the Commisar would make you kneel in front of the assembled Company and put one from his Nagant pistol to your neck for neglecting your soldierly duty and destroying military equipment of the USSR.......a well known motivator during WW!!.
The obvious is that every man , regardless who or where needed and carried water.
The water dissolves the salts and the scrubbing takes off the crap, a light oil, of any type, to cover the clean bare steel.
I agree whole heartedly with Ash, U.S. infantry up untill Viet Nam used corrosive ammo too. It was the M1carbine's gas piston and vent that was rusting out bacause it was closed, so the US developed a non corrosive priming.
Most Junky bored rifle I have come across were imported here, most likely in good/issuable condition and some idiot bought one and a box of surplus.....and just didnt clean it again after shooting.....
From the US's inception with Black powder till the 60's, the US was as busy washing and oiling their rifles like all other rifle owners.
Back then, a rifle was a Mans tool and a symbol as well as a weapon.
They knew what would happen in they rusted, which at least, it wouldnt work or work long........ at worst the Commisar would make you kneel in front of the assembled Company and put one from his Nagant pistol to your neck for neglecting your soldierly duty and destroying military equipment of the USSR.......a well known motivator during WW!!.
Last edited:
R.W.Dale
Member
Wasn't really a concern for troops whose life expectancy was best expressed in minutes
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
Swampman
Old Fart
As has already been stated, all WWII era US military small arms ammo with the exception of .30 Carbine was corrosive.
Many US soldiers and Marines fought in the South Pacific, an area of extremely high temperature and humidity far more conducive to rust than anything likely to be encountered on the Eastern front.
The aforementioned US troops were generally armed with Garands and Thompson SMGs, weapons far harder and more time consuming to clean than their Soviet counterparts, the Mosin Nagant and PPSH 41.
The harshest punishment that a US soldier or Marine was likely to get for a rusty weapon (aside from being killed by the enemy due to a weapon malfunction), was a tongue lashing and possibly a fine.
US troops generally kept their weapons in reasonably good condition.
As has also been stated, a Red Army conscript that allowed his weapon to rust through negligence, might well receive Excedrin headache number 7.62 from their friendly neighborhood political officer.
In summary the commies had:
1- More favorable climatic conditions.
2- Weapons that were much easier to maintain.
3- Far harsher potential penalties for improper maintenance.
What's really amazing to me, is that soldiers and Marines in the South Pacific did as well maintenance wise as they did in the circumstances that they were forced to operate under.
Many US soldiers and Marines fought in the South Pacific, an area of extremely high temperature and humidity far more conducive to rust than anything likely to be encountered on the Eastern front.
The aforementioned US troops were generally armed with Garands and Thompson SMGs, weapons far harder and more time consuming to clean than their Soviet counterparts, the Mosin Nagant and PPSH 41.
The harshest punishment that a US soldier or Marine was likely to get for a rusty weapon (aside from being killed by the enemy due to a weapon malfunction), was a tongue lashing and possibly a fine.
US troops generally kept their weapons in reasonably good condition.
As has also been stated, a Red Army conscript that allowed his weapon to rust through negligence, might well receive Excedrin headache number 7.62 from their friendly neighborhood political officer.
In summary the commies had:
1- More favorable climatic conditions.
2- Weapons that were much easier to maintain.
3- Far harsher potential penalties for improper maintenance.
What's really amazing to me, is that soldiers and Marines in the South Pacific did as well maintenance wise as they did in the circumstances that they were forced to operate under.
BSA1
member
When a soldier in the Pacific was relieved after a island was secure what did they do with their weapon? Did they take it back with them until the next campaign or did they turn them in and were issued new/refurbished weapons when they returned to base for refit and replacements?
It was a war and they didn't care about the ammo being corrosive. Those guns were meant for only one thing, fighting. Of course those that buy these rifles for anything but scrap metal don't like to hear that. This is the reason that a lot of people won't own one.
Ash
Member
The Soviets used corrosive ammo for their entire existence. It stores better and is more reliable than non-corrosive stuff. Cleaning a rifle was (and is) an easy, quick task.
ElToro
Member
urine has ammonia in it. like windex that would neutralize the corrosion properties and then hit it with some oil. call it good.
Ash
Member
Ammonia does nothing for corrosive salts, which are not by themselves corrosive but rather hydrophilic - attracting water to the bore which causes it to rust. Warm water is all you need. Every army that fielded small arms until WWII had no problem keeping their arms in shape despite corrosive ammo. Heck, the Brits did it with corrosive AND erosive cordite-loaded ammo. Every machine gun also used the ammo and survived. Corrosive ammo is no big deal and nothing like the boogie monster some believe it to be.
fatcat4620
Member
Doesn't corrosive ammo store longer?
Ignition Override
Member
If no good MNs were around, they might have picked up a decent German Mauser, if ammo was available.
Most in the US seem to be "rc" rifles.
A coworker I chatted with a couple of years ago was with special forces back in Desert Storm. I asked him how he liked the guns he used.
As we pulled up in the shuttle to the Courtyard Elizabeth at EWR Airport, he responded in a very matter-of-fact manner: "Our guns jammed, so we picked up AKs".
Most in the US seem to be "rc" rifles.
A coworker I chatted with a couple of years ago was with special forces back in Desert Storm. I asked him how he liked the guns he used.
As we pulled up in the shuttle to the Courtyard Elizabeth at EWR Airport, he responded in a very matter-of-fact manner: "Our guns jammed, so we picked up AKs".
ApacheCoTodd
member
My instructor for Czech in the Army had been in the 22nd Para Brigade and said as far as they were concerned, monster loads of commie woe would be heaped upon the fella not keeping his weapon clean. He said the Russians & E. Germans were worse but others like Romanians and Poles were less concerned.
I can't imagine in "The Great War" that a mud-stepper was allowed to let his peoples supplied tool to get to far outa shape.
I can't imagine in "The Great War" that a mud-stepper was allowed to let his peoples supplied tool to get to far outa shape.
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