How did vintage plain clothes detectives carry their sidearms?

Something that just dawned on me about concealment of an OWB holster is I know of course back in the day wearing a 3 or 2 piece suite was very common place for a detective but what I didn’t consider is the ride height of a waistband in the 50s etc. It being higher than modern day jeans would have also aided in concealment under a suit jacket.
 
chicharrones said:
I remember reading something about Chic Gaylord a few years ago regarding his contributions in the mid 20th century.

americanhandgunner.com

Chic Gaylord - American Handgunner

As I was growing up my parents never owned a new car, never bought a house — always rented. We had all the necessities but rarely had any kind of extras. As I look back from my perspective now, my mother was exceptionally skilled in stretching a dollar.
americanhandgunner.com americanhandgunner.com
Click to expand...
Some NYPD dicks carried shoulder holsters, but it was mostly Feds who patronized Chic Gaylord. He had a reputation as the most concealed shoulder rig.

i started in 1969, off duty my S&W 36, AKA Chief Special, was carried in a tight fitting OWB holster, don’t remember the brand. I was also counseled by a salty old timer to carry it in my coat pocket in the winter, especially in bad neighborhoods which NYC had plenty of back then, for better access.

Edit: A little later it was recommended to me to seek out another holster maker on the west side of Manhattan who also did excellent work, which I did. Seven Trees was the brand, and they made me a nice left handed holster, which were somewhat hard to find back then.
 
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Well, my time as a rookie only goes back to the beginning of the 80's, so I can't speak to the prior decades.

My first J-frame was a 3-inch nickeled RB, because I had a hard time finding any 2-inch 36's or 60's in any of the gun stores and cop shops who sold guns back then. They sold out damned quick, according to the shops. I knew a few guys who carried 2-inch Colt DS snubs, but I already had a short-barreled Ruger Speed-Six if I wanted to carry a 6-shot snub.

I finally stumbled upon the bright, shiny 3-inch 36 in a shop, and decided to grab it. It made shooting the 158gr LSCWHP +P loads I came to favor pretty controllable. I once had an older Tyler T-grip for it, but I also liked the hand-filling Pachmayr. Dunno where the T-grip went nowadays.

Anyway, the leather paddle style holster was popular among detectives I saw carrying snub revolvers at the time, so I found one.





On the subject of holsters, a little while back I stumbled across a guy who sells on ebay and on his own webstore, and he specializes in old police gear, and has another website for old Western style gear. He isn't cheap, but some of the gear he finds is very cool. What originally interested me was that he'd found a batch of New/Old Stock vintage crossdraw holstered made by a leather maker I once knew. He operated a small storefront in a warehouse district of one of the small towns on the SF Bay Peninsula. Earl Ginn Company of Belmont. He was a former saddle and harness maker. His leather gear was top notch, and he provided duty gear for LE agencies in the greater Bay Area, which is how I knew of him. Some of my original issued leather gear was made by him.

Anyway, back in earlier decades crossdraw rigs for snubs weren't uncommon, and one of the better known models was probably from Bucheimer. Earl Ginn made a very nice version, and the gentleman on ebay had come across some RH J-frame models somewhere. After some email discussions with him, I promptly ordered one. It's condition made it look like Earl had just finished it.
This is the guy's ebay store, showing that holster. Apparently, he only has 3 left?
www.ebay.com.au

Vintage Earl Ginn Black Basketweave Small Revolver Holster Chief Detective 2" J | eBay

Holster loop will fit a belt up to 1 1/2" and holster has an adjustable tension screw. We also have a large selection of duty gear and accessories for patrol.
www.ebay.com.au

Mine:






When I feel like belting on my of my short J's under a cover garment, for an afternoon or evening at my cigar club, without the butt pressing against my side and experiencing a bit of nostalgia, I slip on the crossdraw.

My old black leather basketweave Safariland dump pouch (which holds a speedstrip nowadays) is a nice touch, but it graces the jacketed noses of cartridges with some verdigris ... which reminds me of the old days, too. Some where in one of my boxes I still have my original issued black basketweave leather double dump pouch. That's what they gave us for uniform gear in those days, although most guys and gals bought speedloader carriers to use. No shortage of older guys & gals who still had bullet loops on their authorized Buscadero rigs, though. I saw some with bullet loops across the back of the belt, and speedloader carriers up front, and even an occasional rig that had a single or double spare bullet loop stitched ion the gun belt right above the drop-shank holster. The western influence was strong in my former agency when I joined. ;)
 
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BTW, when I mentioned how leather paddles were popular in my early LE days, I suspect that part of the attraction wasn't just the ease of slipping holsters on and off (they often came off to be tucked away in desk drawers when in the office), but the way the thick leather paddles would conform to the shape of the wearer over time and body heat.

Here are a couple pics of my old Shoemaker paddle, showing the way the paddle acquired the shape of a hip.





That holster is in a bit better condition than in these pics, because I got out one of my old leather tools to clean up some of the worn edges of the holster pocket, and then sealed them. Naturally, I left the rest of wear and scuff marks exactly as they were. I acquired my own share of wear & tear signs, so that old holster ought to retain some of the ones it earned over the decades. ;)
 
Earl Ginn and Lex Shoemaker as well as Berns and Martin and Clark of California (later Bucheimer-Clark) were all instrumental in the evolution of service holsters. I have a couple old Berns-Martin Break Front holsters and while great for carry were certainly not for concealment. I still wear the break-fronts every once in awhile.

Hume B/M Breakfront:

Hume-BF-19.jpg


Gould & Goodrich Breakfront: (Over hammer retention strap)


Army-Special-G&G-Breakfront.jpg

Detail of the front and the across hammer retention strap:

Hume-BFb-19.jpg
 
jar said:
Perhaps the most popular holsters in the late 50s through early 70s for concealed carry LE were the Roy Baker Original Pancake and the Bucheimer Concealer.

View attachment 1189971

View attachment 1189970

Both had broad support points and a smooth contour while carrying the grip high and tight for better access and greater concealment.
Click to expand...
Nothing conceals a S&W k frame more comfortably than a Bucheimer "Concealer". Light, thin, high & tight. IMG_1589.JPG 20231023_150500.jpg
 
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Not sure of the era, but bootleggers and other political officials used the hip pocket holsters. I have no ploto of one, but they consisted of a very stiff leather backing fitting the contour of a hip pocket. The pouch was thinner leather stitched to the outline of a Colt, and having a tab with a button hole to button to the pocket button.

This gave rise to the old story of a political rally that broke up early. The reporter asked someone who lingered why the meeting broke up early. "A man made a motion that was out of order." The reporter asked what kkindof motiion. "Tward his hip pocket" was the laconic reply.

Souther politics used to be far more interesting!

Bob Wrkight
 
I inherited all my dad's old revolver holsters when I bought his Pythons. As mentioned, Bucheimer and Brauer Bros. we're the big names until the late sixties, early seventies, then the LAPD 'clamshell' holster slowly made it's way onto Sam Browne belts here in the Midwest. The swivel holsters still held their sway, particularly for 6" barreled guns. Safariland became ascendent somewhere in there, and became ubiquitous by the time autos started replacing revolvers as the norm for belt guns.

Savvy detectives wore pancake holsters for their 36 or DS, desk jockeys preferred paddle holsters, or a standard back loop OWB. Undercover cops often used 1911s or BHPs just belt tucked, sometimes with a cheap .32 or .380 in a back pocket. It was not uncommon for uniforms to have one of those in a back pocket either.
 
I can remember back to '68 in Ft. Worth, TX. That won't be the "average". Ft. Worth was the home of Tandy leather. You couldn't swing a dead cat and not hit a leather worker. I don't remember seeing many J frames. The detectives I would see usually carried a six shot and mostly S&W's. Some would carry a 2"K, but a lot of them carried a 4". These were usually not small men. In those days they always wore a suit and fedora. Most of those suit coats would have a patch sewed in where the pistol had worn thru the lining. Most of the holsters were custom made and most were tooled in a traditional southwestern pattern. I don't remember seeing anything in my early years except the Tom Threepersons style with a keeper strap. Those mostly left the hammer spur exposed. Yeah just a matter of time till you got that patch in the suit lining. I don't remember seeing holsters with the keeper strap that covered the hammer until the early 70's (John Bianchi?) It was 1975 when I first saw a Roy Baker pancake holster. I was a freshly minted Secret Service agent and was issued a 2 1/2" Model 19. That pancake was a lifesaver best thing I had ever seen. One other memory, when we graduated from the FWPD academy our issued duty belt, holster, handcuff case, 6 round cartridge carrier was made by the Lieutenant who commanded the Robbery/Homicide unit. All custom made. When I prevented all of the hijacking at DFW airport I did that with a S&W Model 60 and carried it in a custom made hand tooled holster made by a Detective who was a neighbor of my parents. I had discovered pancakes at that point. I wouldn't make that decision today, but the world has changed a lot since the days of yore. I got that first pancake holster by calling Roy Baker on the phone, he took my order and mailed it to me and I sent him a check, in that order. They passed in the mail.
 
fastbolt said:
Well, my time as a rookie only goes back to the beginning of the 80's, so I can't speak to the prior decades.

My first J-frame was a 3-inch nickeled RB, because I had a hard time finding any 2-inch 36's or 60's in any of the gun stores and cop shops who sold guns back then. They sold out damned quick, according to the shops. I knew a few guys who carried 2-inch Colt DS snubs, but I already had a short-barreled Ruger Speed-Six if I wanted to carry a 6-shot snub.

I finally stumbled upon the bright, shiny 3-inch 36 in a shop, and decided to grab it. It made shooting the 158gr LSCWHP +P loads I came to favor pretty controllable. I once had an older Tyler T-grip for it, but I also liked the hand-filling Pachmayr. Dunno where the T-grip went nowadays.

Anyway, the leather paddle style holster was popular among detectives I saw carrying snub revolvers at the time, so I found one.





On the subject of holsters, a little while back I stumbled across a guy who sells on ebay and on his own webstore, and he specializes in old police gear, and has another website for old Western style gear. He isn't cheap, but some of the gear he finds is very cool. What originally interested me was that he'd found a batch of New/Old Stock vintage crossdraw holstered made by a leather maker I once knew. He operated a small storefront in a warehouse district of one of the small towns on the SF Bay Peninsula. Earl Ginn Company of Belmont. He was a former saddle and harness maker. His leather gear was top notch, and he provided duty gear for LE agencies in the greater Bay Area, which is how I knew of him. Some of my original issued leather gear was made by him.

Anyway, back in earlier decades crossdraw rigs for snubs weren't uncommon, and one of the better known models was probably from Bucheimer. Earl Ginn made a very nice version, and the gentleman on ebay had come across some RH J-frame models somewhere. After some email discussions with him, I promptly ordered one. It's condition made it look like Earl had just finished it.
This is the guy's ebay store, showing that holster. Apparently, he only has 3 left?
www.ebay.com.au

Vintage Earl Ginn Black Basketweave Small Revolver Holster Chief Detective 2" J | eBay

Holster loop will fit a belt up to 1 1/2" and holster has an adjustable tension screw. We also have a large selection of duty gear and accessories for patrol.
www.ebay.com.au

Mine:






When I feel like belting on my of my short J's under a cover garment, for an afternoon or evening at my cigar club, without the butt pressing against my side and experiencing a bit of nostalgia, I slip on the crossdraw.

My old black leather basketweave Safariland dump pouch (which holds a speedstrip nowadays) is a nice touch, but it graces the jacketed noses of cartridges with some verdigris ... which reminds me of the old days, too. Some where in one of my boxes I still have my original issued black basketweave leather double dump pouch. That's what they gave us for uniform gear in those days, although most guys and gals bought speedloader carriers to use. No shortage of older guys & gals who still had bullet loops on their authorized Buscadero rigs, though. I saw some with bullet loops across the back of the belt, and speedloader carriers up front, and even an occasional rig that had a single or double spare bullet loop stitched ion the gun belt right above the drop-shank holster. The western influence was strong in my former agency when I joined. ;)
Click to expand...
Super classy
 
chickasaw_hunter said:
I can remember back to '68 in Ft. Worth, TX. That won't be the "average". Ft. Worth was the home of Tandy leather. You couldn't swing a dead cat and not hit a leather worker. I don't remember seeing many J frames. The detectives I would see usually carried a six shot and mostly S&W's. Some would carry a 2"K, but a lot of them carried a 4". These were usually not small men. In those days they always wore a suit and fedora. Most of those suit coats would have a patch sewed in where the pistol had worn thru the lining. Most of the holsters were custom made and most were tooled in a traditional southwestern pattern. I don't remember seeing anything in my early years except the Tom Threepersons style with a keeper strap. Those mostly left the hammer spur exposed. Yeah just a matter of time till you got that patch in the suit lining. I don't remember seeing holsters with the keeper strap that covered the hammer until the early 70's (John Bianchi?) It was 1975 when I first saw a Roy Baker pancake holster. I was a freshly minted Secret Service agent and was issued a 2 1/2" Model 19. That pancake was a lifesaver best thing I had ever seen. One other memory, when we graduated from the FWPD academy our issued duty belt, holster, handcuff case, 6 round cartridge carrier was made by the Lieutenant who commanded the Robbery/Homicide unit. All custom made. When I prevented all of the hijacking at DFW airport I did that with a S&W Model 60 and carried it in a custom made hand tooled holster made by a Detective who was a neighbor of my parents. I had discovered pancakes at that point. I wouldn't make that decision today, but the world has changed a lot since the days of yore. I got that first pancake holster by calling Roy Baker on the phone, he took my order and mailed it to me and I sent him a check, in that order. They passed in the mail.
Click to expand...
Yep, lost the lining on several designer suits, was not happy.

Finally took the hammer off my J frame and removed the spur with the aid of a grinding wheel. Had to buy a second hammer to reinstall for qualification as we weren’t permitted to modify our guns.
 
I seem to remeber Barney Fife carrying a Colt det. special strong side in a leather holster. Don't know if he was allowed to have bullets in it though, or if he only had the 1 in his pocket.
 
Well, since Barney Fife got mentioned I'll bring up the shoulder holster rig that Steve McQeen wears in "Bullitt".
He's carrying a Colt and there was a holder for extra ammo on on of the straps.
 
El Paso Saddlery still makes some holster designs that pre-date WW2. The Threepersons and 1930 Austin hiolsters come to mind.

So does Doc Barranti, on the custom-maker level.
 
The ones I remember from my youth were simple holsters thatt wrapped around in back forming a loop to slide onto a pants belt. Most had a retaining strap so the gun would stay in the holster. Ever gun was a stubby 2' barreled 38 special revolver that I saw on a detective, all 2 of them. The chief of police in the little town I lived in wore a uniform but carried a 2" smith in the same type holster.

Regular cops in a car had a 4" 38 special in the same type of holster on a duty belt offset by a billy club on the other side attached when they got out of their car if they thought there was as a threat. None ever brought their club when giving me a loud muffler ticket. :) I knew most by their first name, Small town, small force and still is although I no longer live in town and haven't received a ticket of any kind in so long I forget exactly when it was. 1975 I think and it was a state cop for a whopping 5 mph over the limit. I knew him but it wasn't from being ticketed by him before.
 
Dad carried his Model 60 in a leather belt holster (over which he'd wear a jacket). He had a couple of them; one was definitely a Lawrence but I'm not sure what the other was (I don't have access to them right now). He also had a shoulder holster (another Lawrence) but I don't recall seeing him use it. He carried his spare rounds in a dump pouch.
 
IMG_1844.jpeg
Here’s a S&W holster from the mid 70’s for my model 36 that I modified by cutting and adding snaps.

This allowed me to remove/replace it on my belt, without having to remove the belt, when going into the pens. Nobody that I found had anything like this at the time.

Shown with a dump pouch that snapped over a regular belt and stayed flat and concealable.
 
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I have a small collection of Buchimer and Bauer Brother’s holsters that I accumulated from junk bins at gun shops. Not surprisingly, there was not much geographic distance between the Police HQ, Bauer Bro’s, and the shops where I picked them up. Most are decent but I can imagine more than a couple revolvers were lost on foot chases… but these were likely used before updates to fleeing felon policies 🫢.

I also have some dump pouches and even a couple leather rigs made to carry speed loaders.
 
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