How do I Confirm That Pistol Sights Need to be Adjusted?

[Swifty Morgan]

Generally, I am reluctant to mess with pistol sights. I have had a number of pistols, and it seems like when they're off target, it's usually in the same direction, so I figure it's always me, not the sights. I don't want to adjust the sights so they work with my bad technique. I want to get rid of the bad technique.

That being said, I wonder if anyone has any tips on how to confirm that my sights need to be adjusted. Should I measure the gun's accuracy by resting it and seeing where everything goes, or will that give me a distorted picture of how the gun will work when held in the hands of a shooter with good technique?

I have a new pistol which shoots high and to the right, and in the past, with other guns, I have generally erred to the left and down, so I assume the sights on the new gun should be moved.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

First, shoot from a rest. Make sure the butt of the pistol does NOT touch any hard surface. Shoot several groups. Normally, groups shot from a rest will NOT be at the exact same point of impact as groups shot without a rest -- but what you're looking for is 1) small groups (confirming little shooter error) and 2) close to the point of aim.

If you're getting small groups and they're reasonably near point of aim, try shooting unsupported. Again you're looking for small groups -- If you can put all your shots into a coffee can lid at 25 yards (or better) you can be confident the pistol is shooting to its sights. You can then adjust the sights.

Don't worry about technique -- small groups means your technique is fine for you. If you CAN'T shoot small groups, it's time to worry about technique.

 

[wally]

Steady hold off sandbags and verification by another shooter if possible is recommended before messing with fixed sights. If you are left/right can be fixed by drifting the rear sight in its dovetail, adjusting up/down means taller or shorter front sight of installing an adjustable rear sight.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I shoot small groups (by urban hobbyist standards) in the wrong places. Let me see if I can dig up an old target photo.

I found one from 2009. It's pretty typical of the way I shoot pistols when I'm consistently missing the center of the target. It's 20 rounds from a 1911 at 7 yards.

 

[Wisco]

For pistols, I’ve found cheap laser boresighters to be dead on when installing sights. If your sights are aligned with the laser at however many yards, your sights should be VERY close.

Edit: most people without excellent trigger presses hit left with a lot of guns - Glock stock triggers are great example. I shoot left a lot unless the trigger is clean breaking or I really practice a lot. If I ever shoot a pistol to the right, I’d bet money the sights are off...

 

[Wisco]

I shoot small groups (by urban hobbyist standards) in the wrong places. Let me see if I can dig up an old target photo.

I found one from 2009. It's pretty typical of the way I shoot pistols when I'm consistently missing the center of the target. It's 20 rounds from a 1911 at 7 yards.

View attachment 787916

I’m not sure what your trigger is like in that pistol, but I bet if your trigger was just a little better you’d be dead on.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

You mean the gun's trigger might need some work?

I believe the sights on that particular pistol (S&W 1911) are fine as-is, and that my technique was off on that day, driving things down and left. I was just posting to show what my grouping is like because Vern mentioned "small groups."

Today I shot a different gun with adjustable sights, and everything went high and to the right.

 

[Wisco]

You mean the gun's trigger might need some work?

I believe the sights on that particular pistol (S&W 1911) are fine as-is, and that my technique was off on that day, driving things down and left. I was just posting to show what my grouping is like because Vern mentioned "small groups."

Today I shot a different gun with adjustable sights, and everything went high and to the right.

I find it easier to shoot better with a clean breaking trigger - glock as my example...stock components make a very crappy trigger that most people shoot left. Smoother lighter trigger makes it easier to keep on target without the front sight jumping.

I don’t have experience with the SW 1911, but the trigger between my Springfield 1911 and my Wilson Combat was a huge difference in being able to keep the gun steady through the trigger press with less concentration.

 

[Zoogster]

Some perfect triggers do have less margin of safety though, allowing easier discharge both through negligence, but also through impact. Glocks as you give as an example I find often lose a lot of their drop safety with overly soft springs common in many aftermarket trigger kits.
So if you are already pretty good with the gun do keep in mind what the purpose is. If you are hunting at extended ranges and want that perfect long distance capability, or need it to take abuse carried as a sidearm without discharging if it gets dropped or you fall on it.
Fox example the firing pin block almost doesn't even work on many glock aftermarket triggers kits using a pathetic spring for the device, and a 1911 may let the hammer fall with a much less violent impact with the perfect low travel glass trigger.

How well you shoot different guns can also have to do with the grip, where you are forced to rest your hands relative to the bore axis, if the grip is too wide or narrow or long for your hand. You can always adjust to the gun, but a gun better adjusted to you is easier to shoot.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I tried to shoot a Kel-Tec pistol once, and I never even found out whether I hit the paper. I was shooting at a friend's target that already had holes all over it, and I couldn't tell where my shots went. The trigger was beyond belief. Terrible. Until I fired that thing, I thought a Kel-Tec might be good to carry when I didn't have room for a real gun, but the trigger convinced me it wasn't even useful at short ranges. I thought it was unsafe.

I like shooting Glocks. They seem very accurate and easy to shoot. So ugly, though.

 

[Wisco]

Glocks as you give as an example I find often lose a lot of their drop safety with overly soft springs common in many aftermarket trigger kits.

I agree. I’ve seen some scary Glock triggers.

I use lighter connectors with heavier springs. It’s always been the heavy trigger pull “hump” that’s made them hard for me to shoot well.

 

[.308 Norma]

I have a new pistol which shoots high and to the right,

I haven't seen anyone else ask yet, so I will. How many types of ammo have you tried in your new pistol? Does it shoot high and right with all of the different types of ammo you've tried? With handguns, changing the type of ammo can make a huge difference in where it prints.

 

[CoalTrain49]

For pistols, I’ve found cheap laser boresighters to be dead on when installing sights. If your sights are aligned with the laser at however many yards, your sights should be VERY close.

I'm going to use my neighbors bore sight to check my sights. I can generally group my shots pretty well and adjust my sights but this idea of using a laser to adjust them interests me. Never tried it before but I bet it works.

 

[Wisco]

I'm going to use my neighbors bore sight to check my sights. I can generally group my shots pretty well and adjust my sights but this idea of using a laser to adjust them interests me. Never tried it before but I bet it works.

I usually only use it when installing sights and it’s almost always exactly where it needs to be. Any further adjustments are made after shooting.

Also works very well on rifles to get on paper without using ammo or trying to look down a bore.

I use something like this...it was $30 probably 8 years ago and has more than paid for itself

 

[WestKentucky]

You are clearly a fairly decent shooter. Find someone who shoots as well or better than you do consistently, with a similar gun, and have them run a box of your ammo. First few mags will be getting used to your gun, the last mag will tell the tale when you compare your targets.

 

[Jim Watson]

Improving technique is a fine thing. But there is some personal effect of eye, hand, and finger that can move you off the arbitrary factory setting without a specific fault.
It doesn't matter what you do from a rest, or where the laser shines, or what the best shot in the club does, zero the gun for your normal grip at your usual range and carry on.

 

[buck460XVR]

The only way to know for sure if it's the gun or you is to rest it securely and properly and shoot it with some good quality ammo. Many fixed sight guns are regulated for a particular bullet weight and shooting a lighter for caliber or heavier for caliber bullet will affect POI. Anytime you have an adjustable sight gun, the sights should be adjusted for both the gun, the ammo and your technique. Fixed sight guns can be different, because of what they are. Whether or not to attempt to adjust them is up to you, your skill level at gunsmithing and the purpose of the firearm.

 

[wally]

I'm going to use my neighbors bore sight to check my sights.

Those laser boresights are only good for getting on the paper. On a gun you can see through the bore you do as well or better looking down the bore to align with the target and then adjust the sights to match. My experience is that further adjustment after shooting is always required for anything but the most casual of shooting. I have them and use them when I install a red dot on a handgun or an optic on a gun you can't see down the bore from the rear like the Ruger 10/22.

 

[BobWright]

I never sight in over sandbags or any other rest. The gun recoils differently when fired unsupported that when fired over a rest. If you are shooting good groups and they are not where you want them to be, by all means adjust your sights.

Be aware of this, however, different ammunition will shoot to different point. Be consitant with the ammunition used.



This little revolver has nigh impossible sights and makes accurate shooting difficult, but does react to sight adjustment, albeit requiring a file:



But, with a little careful use of a file:





Bob Wright

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I suppose I need to settle on a brand of ammo and then adjust the sights. Thank God I don't have to use a file!

 

[someguy2800]

I shoot all my pistols off the bench to test accuracy. I hold the pistol two handed just as if I was shooting offhand but I rest my wrist on a sandbag, and the front of the frame I lay lightly on a rest. Just enough to steady any movement. My point of impact is the same shooting offhand as off the rest with all my pistols. You can move your point of impact around the bullseye just by changing the position of your finger on the trigger so I find if I'm consistently shooting one way or the other I just need to pay more attention to how I'm pulling the trigger and the problem corrects itself. Dry fire practice will reveal the best technique for you. I've adjusted the sights on all my pistols.

 

[Cump]

As someguy suggests, before drifting sights, I always look to trigger-finger placement first, then I make sure of mechanics with my support hand. Before I found my shooting grip, I consistently shot a little high and right. Now, most guns shoot poa with the center of my finger-print on the trigger, but there are a few that I realized I needed to slightly adjust finger position. Initial determinations were always made by checking to see the results of another shooter with the same gun.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I was looking at the Wheel of Misfortune just now. What does "too little trigger finger" mean?

 

[stchman]

I shoot small groups (by urban hobbyist standards) in the wrong places. Let me see if I can dig up an old target photo.

I found one from 2009. It's pretty typical of the way I shoot pistols when I'm consistently missing the center of the target. It's 20 rounds from a 1911 at 7 yards.

View attachment 787916

Looks like a pretty good target to me.

 

[Cump]

I was looking at the Wheel of Misfortune just now. What does "too little trigger finger" mean?

Too little is when contact with the trigger is too close to the finger tip to have a straight pull. Too much is when contact is too close to the crease of the knuckle, or at the crease. But different triggers have different requirements (e.g. I use the crease on my j-frame).