How do y'all feel about baiting?

[wyohome]

^Tell it to the judge!!

 

[Sam1911]

Not for a moment to say that law and logic, reason, biology, or ethics are in any way necessarily well aligned.

 

[JFtheGR8]

I talked to an Illinois cpo yesterday about this very topic. In Illinois it is illegal to bait deer at anytime. No feeders, no salt/mineral blocks, no powders, nothing allowed year 'round. He said the problem is deer feeding in the same location leave their saliva and pass disease on to other deer. He claimed that cwd is a huge problem in Northern Illinois and that they were shooting deer by the dozens because Wisconsin still allows baiting and the disease is being spread to our state. His words not mine. I'm merely sharing the information given to me by the conservation police officer. I need to research it myself before forming a definitive opinion about it. If his words have merit then I would be against baiting where cwd is present.


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[buck460XVR]

I talked to an Illinois cpo yesterday about this very topic. In Illinois it is illegal to bait deer at anytime. No feeders, no salt/mineral blocks, no powders, nothing allowed year 'round. He said the problem is deer feeding in the same location leave their saliva and pass disease on to other deer. He claimed that cwd is a huge problem in Northern Illinois and that they were shooting deer by the dozens because Wisconsin still allows baiting and the disease is being spread to our state.


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While your CPO is correct about the concern over the spread of CWD thru direct contact with body fluids between deer, he is way off base about the baiting of deer in Wisconsin and the spreading of the disease to your state from ours. Baiting and feeding of deer is illegal in Wisconsin in any county and any counties adjacent to where any evidence of CWD has been found. Immediately after CWD was discovered in the state all baiting and feeding of deer was outlawed, but baiters and bait retailers in counties away from known CWD areas pressured the DNR into allowing baiting and feeding in counties not in or adjacent to a confirmed CWD area.

BTW....CWD was confirmed in wild deer in Northern Illinois and south central Wisconsin the same year.....2002. So we may have gotten it from you.

 

[JFtheGR8]

^^^^That could very well be the case. I'm sure the cpo was just regurgitating information given to him by field biologists. I don't know where cwd came from but I wish they'd find a solution for it.


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[MCgunner]

I find it a stretch to suggest that feeding deer causes or spreads any disease. I never see more'n 3 deer at my feeders at any one time. I would think over-population is more of a problem.

BTW, I know a couple of Texas judges and one lawyer that hunt feeders on their place.

 

[JFtheGR8]

I find it a stretch to suggest that feeding deer causes or spreads any disease. :eolleyes: I never see more'n 3 deer at my feeders at any one time. I would think over-population is more of a problem.

BTW, I know a couple of Texas judges and one lawyer that hunt feeders on their place.

(Rolleyes). It's not that they are at the feeders at the same time. It's that they leave saliva and mucous behind that contains the germs that can be spread to deer that come later. Think about it, you don't have to be touching a doorknob at the same time as someone to catch their cold do ya? No, you do not. Many germs can live for quite some time without a host, just waiting for someone or something to pick them up.

Absolutely overpopulation could have a hand in the spread of disease. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just not saying you're right. I'll leave the research up to the field biologists.

Is cwd even an issue in Texas like it is in Illinois and Wisconsin?

Either way, like I said, I don't care about baiting so long as it's not detrimental to the deer population. If it is then I'm strongly against. I need more proof than anecdotal "evidence" to form an opinion though.


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[AKElroy]

At the same time we are dumbing down the deer, we are dumbing down our new/young hunters. Instead of learning the deers habits/preferences, basic woodsmanship and how not to get lost in the big woods, they learn what food to buy at the feed mill, how drive the 4X4 down the trail to the box blind and how to light the heater

Hey now..... I resent this remark. My tower chair is wide open, so I actually have to sit still to keep from alerting the deer to my presence. As soon as they know I'm there, they will inevitably cozy up for ear scratches and belly rubs from yours truly, which frankly spoils the fair chase component of shooting them in the pen. And the TV reception in my box blind sucks, by the way. Sometimes the heater can barely keep up on the really crisp mornings, forcing me to throw on a light sweater.

 

[AKElroy]

Quote:
If it makes you feel macho, have at it, but I think that I will pass.
Oh wow.

I hope I don't ever feel macho because I killed something.

I will admit to feeling a bit vindicated when a spotlight run yields a coon or two eating my corn. It's not uncommon to see a dozen of them eating my $10 corn. They probably eat more than the deer. Little bastards.

I hope I am not wrong for satisfying that little bit of bloodlust.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

No one is ever forced to take any shot except in self-defense.

Well if you want to look at it that way you're not forced to in self defense either. You do have the option of getting beat up or killed.

They made it legal to bait on private land here in Arkansas and I have done it, but to tell the truth, I don't see it as hunting. When you take a ten year old out, set them in a tent and let them shoot a deer, it isn't hunting. It is shooting. We are teaching the next generation of "hunters " to kill but not teaching them the skills of hunting. If it makes you feel macho, have at it, but I think that I will pass.

Whether or not you see it as hunting matters not. Some of us don't do it for the hunt. I have no desire to traipse all over the countryside in search of game. I have a desire to eat venison. I don't have a need to, I have a desire to and putting out a 50 lb bag of corn is a great way to lure them in so that I can do so.

And sorry, but hunting in the purest sense of the term like you're describing is all but gone. As you're aware, if you want to hunt around here, you almost have to be a member of a lease. Our lease is about 1500 acres and it's surrounded by other leases on all sides. We have about 25 members and the ones around us are even more dense with hunters. You go traipsing around and it's not going to be safe. And if I'm in my stand and someone comes walking up, "stalking" or "hunting" we're about to have words. Maybe more than words.

And the notion that killing something makes anyone feel macho is just silly. That's not why anyone hunts.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This is rather amusing...,

Folks say about bait, "that's not hunting", but then say I don't have a problem with it. HELLO? By proclaiming something is "not" then you DO HAVE a problem with it. Saying "that's not hunting" is not the same as saying "that style of hunting is not for me."

Further..., these were a couple of the reasons folks found fault with baiting:

..., but by the pleasure I get from the hunt itself.

I hunt for the challenge, not because I need the meat. I don't have a problem with those who do so if legal where you live, but personally would get no enjoyment from shooting game over bait.

BOTH are concerned with the personal experience, the personal testing, and not actually with ethics.

And I agree, as I use a flintlock, and no modern clothing save for the blaze orange knit hat that I wear to comply with the law..., but again I would not proclaim using of bait "NOT" hunting, it's just that style of hunting is "not for me".
LD

 

[toiville2feathers]

Talking about baiting deer only

It has been my experience that baiting changes the deers habits. They no longer need to traverse the landscape looking for food, which is for survival a 24/7 deal.
When bait piles are present they show up after dark eat their fill and return to their bedding area before long before daylight. My trail cameras have proved this to me.
The other problem, and this is a SERIOUS problem is that diseases like tuberculosis, Chronic Wasting Disease and blue tongue can be spread very easily by multiple animals eating out of bait piles.
Economically the resource is to important and precious to be endangered by using baits. Based on these facts I am not in favor of baiting.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

When bait piles are present they show up after dark eat their fill and return to their bedding area before long before daylight.

I've shot numerous deer with their nose in my cornpile and I've never shot a deer at dark.

 

[X-Rap]

Are game laws a reflection of ethics or human control?
Is hunting from a vehicle a safety concern or and ethical one?
Is baiting a matter of herd health or ethics?
Is having a cased unloaded gun in the vehicle a safety or ethical regulation?
Should there be mandatory shooting distances for various means of hunting?
Should all ethical issues be purged from hunter safety training since it is so subjective?
What constitutes baiting, intentional concentrated attractant or crops and fruit grown in the course of agricultural pursuits?
Is the elevation of a stand a safety or ethical concern?
Should minimum energy/cartridge regulations be on the books?
Is the use of lights any less ethical than bait or shooting from the back of a truck?
If shooting from an elevated platform in a truck is necessary should hunting from the air be allowed?
How about dogs? Retrievers make sense but pointers?? Hounds that chase animals like a pack of wolves?
These are but a few of the conflicting ethical questions that one can find in the various game laws around the country, are ethics and fair chase consistent or do we pick and choose what suits us?

 

[Sam1911]

are ethics and fair chase consistent or do we pick and choose what suits us?

Obviously the latter, as I pointed out in post 66.

Loyalist Dave, above, comes from a state where you can bait, shoot unlimited does, hunt on Sundays, with a semi-auto rifle (in some places), and where my one pal shot the biggest buck in the herd out his patio door at first light opening day. Obviously that's the ultimate home of libertarian-ism ... MARYLAND!?!?!

Maybe they're just a bunch of city slicker, godless, heathen, commie, [strike]yankees[/strike] (oh, wait, no, not that one) who have no ethics. That's probably it.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

and where my one pal shot the biggest buck in the herd out his patio door at first light opening day.

OH THE HUMANITY!!
That's not hunting. Oh my, what message is it sending to the children?

 

[Sam1911]

Does it help that it was with a crossbow so he didn't wake his neighbors?

It was probably at his taxidermist's by 8:00 am. Heck, I figure he deserved it. He'd been watching that deer and waiting all summer to take the shot!

 

[jrdolall]

I have hunted in just about every manner imaginable. Over corn poured out of a bag, over a deer feeder, over a mineral block, over a watering hole, near an apple orchard, over food plots, on a travel corridor, over natural food sources, running dogs, using human drives, spot and stalk, still hunting, 30 feet up a tree, from a natural blind, from a doghouse blind, from a heated tower, from a limb, from a 2x4 nailed between two limbs and probably other ways I can't recall.
None of my hunting was "fair" but it was all (well MOSTLY all) legal based on the laws where I was hunting.
In TX you can pour a bag of corn out and wait for the deer, and other critters, to show up. Animals can come pouring in to the sound of a feeder.
In Alabama we have some pretty goofy laws about baiting. I can have a feeder as long as it is 100 yards from my stand and is out of "line of sight" and hidden by natural vegetation or terrain. I can't put a feeder behind a roll of hay out in the pasture and then hunt where I can't see the feeder. It is also a bit of a grey area if your feeder is down in the woods where you can't possibly see it but a warden can determine that you CAN see a deer going towards the feed and are therefore baiting. How can that be confusing? What if my path out of the woods takes me closer than 100 yards to my feeder?
We can hunt over "white" salt blocks but not the brown mineral blocks that are 99.7% salt. I really doubt that .3% potassium is bringing the deer in. This is moot to me because I seldom see deer at salt blocks during hunting season but they tear them up when it is hot.
The area I hunt has very little agriculture other than pine trees. Pines make hunting difficult (in case it wasn't hard enough) because the deer can just stay in the pines all day and never come out during daylight. Feeding, through corn or food plots, is a way to entice animals out of the thick stuff. During the rut it helps get the does up to feed and brings the bucks out to.......feed. Yeah, that's it.
States have determined what they feel is "fair and ethical" and those laws vary by 180 degrees. I have no problem with anyone hunting any way they choose so long as it is legal. Just because I prefer to hunt hardwoods in the middle of the day doesn't mean it is unethical to hunt a corn pile at daylight.
I hear a lot about CWD but it hasn't popped up around here. How does multiple deer feeding under a deer feeder differ from multiple deer feeding under an oak tree or a pear tree or a food plot? That's a valid question and not just a smartbutt remark. I have been to places and seen literally 100 deer feeding in a plot and often see 5-6 deer feeding under an acorn tree at the same time.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Does it help that it was with a crossbow so he didn't wake his neighbors?

I'm sure it helped someone.
My dad shot one from his patio door with a .308 Win and didn't tell my mother, who was in the bedroom that he was about to shoot. She about killed him.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've squirrel hunting in a pecan orchard before. Was that unethical too? It didn't take long to limit out, I promise you that.

 

[brainwake]

We have food plots, set out piles of food, salt licks everywhere. And funny enough, I tend to hunt other places. I suppose I am more on the idea of getting them on the way to and from the food. But hey whatever.

My point is...overall....our herd is very healthy. They have everything from a nutrition stand-point a deer could ever ask for. In fact, most of the time I see deer in other areas, I am always thinking how skinny they look.

In the end...I am in it for the meat. I want healthy deer meat...no antibiotics...no steroids. So the fatter and stronger they are....the better the meat.

I will also say...I don't think I have ever seen the monster buck with his nose in the pile during the day. The big ones are always smarter than that.

 

[MCgunner]

I will admit to feeling a bit vindicated when a spotlight run yields a coon or two eating my corn. It's not uncommon to see a dozen of them eating my $10 corn. They probably eat more than the deer. Little bastards.

I hope I am not wrong for satisfying that little bit of bloodlust.

Shot several caught in a spring trap, myself. I'm too lazy to make late night runs in the woods.

 

[Sam1911]

I will admit to feeling a bit vindicated when a spotlight run yields a coon or two eating my corn. It's not uncommon to see a dozen of them eating my $10 corn. They probably eat more than the deer. Little bastards.

I hope I am not wrong for satisfying that little bit of bloodlust.

Hey, if your corn's worth that much to you, you probably shouldn't go leaving it out on the ground.

Hmmm, animal likes certain food. You put food out where the animal is quite likely to find it. Animal, apparently not comprehending the "Hey, raccoon, don't eat this corn!" signs you put up, comes and eats the food. You get mad and kill the animal?

Don't make much sense to me, but what do I know? But then, I have a hard time being outraged at an animal doing what comes instinctively.

 

[MCgunner]

Coons are some smart animals. They will go in my hog trap and eat the corn, trip the door, open the door and walk back out! And they say hogs are smart???? Of course, hogs don't have opposable thumbs.

 

[Sam1911]

Well, yeah, I could certainly accept that being repeatedly outsmarted by a lower animal might bring out the vindictive bloodlust in someone. If you can't out-think 'em, KILL!