Bear Bait Debate

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Keith

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Young rears up at idea of no bait
BEARS: Critics say luring the animals with garbage is unsafe and unsportsmanlike.


By LIZ RUSKIN
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: June 13, 2003)
WASHINGTON -- A bill to ban bear baiting on federal land had Alaska Rep. Don Young growling at a hearing Thursday.

"I wish I had my Native people in here right now," he told Rep. Jim Moran, the northern Virginia Democrat who co-sponsored the bill. "You'd walk out of here with no head on."

The bill, subject of a hearing before the House Resources Committee on Thursday, would prohibit hunters on federal land from setting out food to lure bears. Alaska is one of nine states that allow bear baiting.

Baiting supporters say the method is the only way hunters can keep the bear population under control.

Young also said it should be left up to the state.

"You have no right, nor do your people have any right, to tell Alaskans how they're going to manage their game," Young roared at Moran.

"You don't know anything about Alaska. You're trying to tell my people -- you're sitting down here in Washington, D.C. -- how they're going to manage their game."

Proponents of the ban, some from the Humane Society of the United States, wore "Don't feed the bears" lapel badges Thursday.

They say bear baiting is unsportsmanlike.

"Shooting a bear in the back while its head is stuffed in a garbage can to feed does not constitute a fair chase," Moran said.

Critics say baiters use thousands of pounds of everything from rotting meat to doughnuts to attract bears.

"In a normal season we will go through 10 tons of pastries and about 8 tons of meat," one Canadian guiding outfit advertised on the Internet.

A guide in Maine said on his Web site that he puts out "between 40,000 to 50,000 pounds" of bait a season. He also said he begins baiting his stations a month before hunting season, which he said is legal there.

Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn., who defended baiting in his state, sounded indignant at the suggestion that some people use Twinkies as bait.

"I'm not aware of anybody in Minnesota using Twinkies," he said. "We're not that kind of people."

Bait stations attract all kinds of bears. Some -- sows with cubs and grizzlies, for example -- aren't legal to kill. Critics of baiting say bears that feed at stations but survive learn to like human food, then become dangerous because they turn to cabins and campgrounds for more.

Matt Robus, wildlife conservation director for Alaska Fish and Game, said that argument comes up every time the state Game Board reconsiders the issue.

"We don't have any information that that allegation is true," he said. "A properly conducted baiting operation does not necessarily lead that bear to associate humans with food."

Rather, he said, the bear learns to associate that particular spot in the woods with food.

In Alaska, bait stations must be at least one-quarter mile from a road or trail and at least a mile from cabins or campgrounds. A Fish and Game Department pamphlet recommends dog food mixed with grease, baked goods and fish carcasses.

"Check the bait at least every other day until a bear begins eating it. Then bring 5-10 pounds of fresh bait along with you on every trip so that you can rebait the station immediately," the pamphlet says. "Keep putting out a small amount daily until you are ready to hunt over the bait."

Once hunting is over, the hunter must remove all of the bait, even contaminated soil, the regulations say.

"A lot of them don't," said Jim Holmes, a Fish and Game technician who taught the department's baiting classes for four years. He said he sees a contradiction between urging residents to take down their bird feeders and bear-proof their trash cans but then allowing hunters to "set up miniature garbage dumps in the woods."

He said one department biologist has puzzled over what to do about a particular group of out-of-state hunters.

"They show up with a horse trailer filled with 3,000-4,000 pounds of compressed old doughnuts," Holmes said.

George Pollard, a retired hunting guide from Soldotna, is part of a citizens group that hopes to begin petitioning for a state ban on bear baiting. Pollard, 77, said baiting is not in keeping with the spirit of fair chase.

"That's what hunting is all about," he said. "When you make something too easy, it loses its value."

More than 2,000 black bears are harvested a year in Alaska. Only 100 to 300 are taken over bait, mostly in the Fairbanks area, the Kenai Peninsula and the Mat????ka-Susitna area. Robus said it's an important means of bear control in those areas.

Young, whose office walls are crowded with game trophies, said he has hunted both brown and black bears.

"We harvest quite a few black bears in Alaska, because most of my Native people do eat bear," he said.

He said he once watched a brown bear as it fished from a river.

"And when he lay down to go to sleep, I shot him. And there's a reason for that, because I didn't want him to know where I was," Young said.

Some people may see that as unsportsmanlike, he acknowledged. Young, though, wasn't asking for advice, and he certainly didn't want any from a congressman from northern Virginia.

"How many bear do you have in Alexandria?" he demanded.
 
Doesn't matter whether you're fer it or agin it, the real issue is federal control or state control over the methods of hunting in a state. Why should federal land rules be different from private land rules?

Art
 
You'll get no argument from me!

I, personally, wouldn't use bait for hunting. But really, it's none of my business how anybody else hunts as long as the the total take is within limits the animal population can support.

If it's none of my business how my neighbor hunts, it's certainly not the business of some federal offical 6000 miles away.
 
Yep
Too much government meddlin. First its no baitin, then its more restrictive seasons, and on it goes. Whats this fair chase stuff? Sure hunting is a sport, but people go off the hook on that excuse. Maybe I should kill a bear with nothin but my bowie knife like davey crocket (daniel boone? , heard that story about somebody) Not a humane kill by any standards but the chase was fair by all means :rolleyes:

Honestly, with scout rifles and bear guns being such a popular topic, and the number of times people supposedly walk right into a bear on a blunder hiking/fishing/hunting, I can't see where baiting is THAT necessary to do. Around towns where bears could be a problem, and the population has to be strictly controlled, I can definitely understand trying to draw them into a safe shooting zone. So its really another case where common sense should prevail, but that seems to be lacking now a days and we'll probably see some sort of legislation :mad:
 
I agree with all the replies. Personally, I wouldn't bait a bear, but I don't think a politician from my state (Virginia) has any idea about what is best for Alaska or any other state for that matter. I really have a problem with the federal government introducing bills that "benefit the entire nation."
 
Sort of interesting topic. For comparison to baiting bears, I know that here in Texas, you cannot bait deer into your kill box as that would be bad sportsmanship as well as not legal. If particular bears were causing problems, the USFWS should be called. They would use bait to draw the bear in close so that it can be darted. Once darted, the bear eventually goes to sleep and after some bio data collectedon the bear, it would get crated up and driven from the area.

I know that many years ago, that was policy at Yellowstone. Each captured bear also received a tatoo, ear plug, or some other marking to indicate that the bear had caused problems. Such problems would include things like entering the campgroun and night and frightening campers and damaging property in a search for food. After being driven off quite some distance, the bear is released. Now, if the bear returns and they have to dart it, they will see that it was a repeat offender. If there was a third episode, the three strike rule would come into play and the bear would be killed.
 
"You have no right, nor do your people have any right, to tell Alaskans how they're going to manage their game," Young roared at Moran.

If this guy ever wants to run in my state he's got my vote.
 
You have to realize that bear baiting season only runs a couple of months in the spring. Black bear hunting in most of Alaska is open year round with a limit of three bears in most areas, but has been as high as five in some. Baiting does not apply to brown bears and is illegal.
Bait stations have to be tended on a regular basis, registered w/ ADF&G, and the bait site has to be posted with hunter contact and license information. Several rules and regulations apply to baiting as to distance and location from roads, trails and residences and have to be completely cleaned up and dismantled by the close of the season.
Most hunters who bait (including myself) are bowhunters who have already handicapped our success or lack of, by using a bow and arrow. A bait station only ensures a clean kill and selectivity. I've set up sites that have never been touched.
IIRC Rep. Moran's (I'll keep THR here) bill was introduced to coincide with a petition drive in AK to end bear baiting started in AK by an eastcoast animal rights group based in his district. :barf:
Previous posters were correct, this is a State of Alaska issue and we"ll deal with it as such. The feds have absolutely no business interfering with state management of fish and game resources and a representitive from the former Confederate State of Virginia has even less. :cuss: :banghead: :fire:


If this guy ever wants to run in my state he's got my vote.
No Thanks. I think we'll keep him right here. His tenacity makes up for the disadvantage of numbers we have in DC.


Double Naught,

Lemme 'splain ya somethin', there are over 585,000 square miles up here. The North Slope Borough alone covers 94,000. ADF&G is only called if a particular bear is in a densely populated urban area (ANC).
USFWS:barf: has no authority here (regardless of what they may think) outside of federal lands endangered/threatened species and marine mammals. All other problem (black) bears are hung up inside a smokehouse.
----------

To further clear up any confusion, species that may be declared endangered or threatened in the Lower 48 are classified as game animals and/or furbearers up here. Because of their healthy sustainable populations. That goes for grizzlies, wolves, and wolverines. As of last count night before last, we have about 13 brown bears running in and through my little town.
Non-game species are thriving and plentiful too, like sea otters, eagles (they are about to outnumber seagulls) and yes even polar bears.
 
"I wish I had my Native people in here right now," he told Rep. Jim Moran, the northern Virginia Democrat who co-sponsored the bill. "You'd walk out of here with no head on."

exxxxcuse me?

my Native people?
Lets sub in another minority and see how that would wash
 
Wild Bill Hickok reportedly killed a bar with a bowie knife when he was a drover or muleskinner (I forget) out on the Western plains.
 
http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/3305092p-3336217c.html

Bears in for a shock at one man's setnet cabin
ELECTRIC FENCE: Bruins are a problem for folks in Egegik Bay.


The Associated Press

(Published: June 16, 2003)
KODIAK -- Kodiak teacher Steve Steffensen is packing something new in with supplies destined for the family's setnet site in Egegik: a solar-powered electric fence.

The fence is the same as ones used by farmers to corral livestock. But Steffensen bought his fence to keep the wildlife out, particularly brown bears that have repeatedly broken into the family cabin, destroyed belongings and made a mess.

During winter, while the family is away from the Alaska Peninsula, brown bears have climbed in through windows of their plywood cabin and wreaked chaos, Steffensen said. They've eaten food, torn up sleeping bags, clothes and packages of soap, and clawed equipment. They've urinated and defecated in corners before "blasting their way out through the walls like bulldozers," he said.

"They're insatiable," said Steffensen, who estimates the damage at $1,300.

"They broke every window in the cabin," said Steffensen's wife, Carol. "I think they're having fun in there."

Bears have busted into an estimated 22 setnetters' cabins along seven miles of beach in Egegik Bay, according to year-round watchmen employed by the canneries. The problem has become so bad that even the canneries aren't safe. Bears broke into the ISA cannery and trashed the store.

"I heard the cook camp just got mauled," Steve Steffensen said.

The problem is especially frustrating for setnetters who don't live year-round in Egegik. Kodiak setnetters Stosh Anderson, Cecil Ranney and Judy Phillips have all had cabins broken into by bears.

"It makes packing difficult," Carol Steffensen said. "You say to yourself, 'Do I have any pots and pans left?' "

"It really bums you out when someone sends you a picture of your cabin and you look at it and see your sleeping bags and clothes lying on the tundra," Steve Steffensen said.

Then there are the added cost and trouble of shipping new windows and plywood to Egegik.

Steffensen said the first year was the worst. Bears ate about $600 worth of groceries. He suspects the bears have come to associate cabins with food.

Steffensen, who grew up on a farm with miles and miles of electric fence to keep pigs and cattle inside, plans to coil wire around his house, held inches off the walls by insulators.

Any bears attempting to crawl through the cabin's windows will immediately be zapped with 40-plus volts.

Past efforts at warding off the bears by Egegik setnetters have met with less than satisfactory results. One setnetter, a carpenter, planed down all of his window frames so bears couldn't gain purchase. Instead, the bears rammed inside through his half-inch plywood walls.

Another neighbor surrounded his cabin with boards studded with nails. The bears walked over them.

"Short of a 20-foot steel van, the term bear-proof cabin might be an oxymoron," Steffensen said.
 
quote:
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"I wish I had my Native people in here right now," he told Rep. Jim Moran, the northern Virginia Democrat who co-sponsored the bill. "You'd walk out of here with no head on."
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exxxxcuse me?

my Native people?
Lets sub in another minority and see how that would wash

gun-fucious,

Leave the PC in DC. We all know what he meant.


To all those who think that baiting is unethical:

Would you go fishing without bait? Isn't fishing just hunting in the water with a hook instead of a gun or bow. Isn't chumming the same thing as baiting?
 
I wrote to my representative (Eric Cantor Va.- R) about the matter. I basically said that it was pretty irrisponsible of a person (Moran) from an urban setting like northern Virginia to even comment on bear baiting. Moran doesn't have a clue. I'm sure he thought "bear baiting" was a method used to evade detection by radar. He's an anti, too.

Easy on the former confederate state comment...One of the reasons Virginia fought for independence was to promote individual state's rights over a strong centralized government and that's basically what we're talking about here. The national government, once again, wants to dictate what individual states should do.
 
The biggest threat posed by baiting of any animal is the spread of disease -which is why Whitetail baiting/feeding stations have been banned in some states.
 
Atticus,

That is a good point and precisely why these laws should be left up to individual states. Localized authorities who are more in tune with their special needs should be making the laws for their geographic location. It should not come from some liberal Democrat who resides in Northern, and urban, Virginia.


Rock Jock-

Twinkies are good. Curiously, "Doe in Heat" works better. It's hard to get her in bow range. You need to position your stand in front of the closet she frequently comes out of.
 
seems to me like they should ban it, the issue lisences to those who pass the criteria for baiting responcably. more stupied paperwork i know, however it will stop dumbas macho city guys comin up wrecking stuff
 
sas, I imagine city folks don't have the time available so they could "do it right". They'd have to be customers of a responsible guide who sets up the bait station, who then puts hunters on stand for a fee...

Art
 
As an interesting side note...

I have read from several old time bear hunters that an open bottle of anise will dothe trick like nothing else.
 
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