How do you "clean" dirty ammo?

[nobby]

Today, I bought 1000 rds of surplus Guatemalan .223 for $100 at a local gunshow. It was in a sealed box so I couldn't inspect it before purchase. When I finally opened it up, the rounds were really dirty. A few were corroded and some had dented cases, so I tossed those. But the remaining 900 or so all have a dry-ish, dirty film on them. None of them are smooth and shiny and I can already tell they will not cycle well if shot as-is.

Is it possible to "clean" loaded ammo? If so, what materials do I need to do the job? Again, not trying to make the cases shiny but I want to get rid of that dirty film that turns my fingers green.

Please let me know.

Nobby

 

[armorplate]

I suppose you don't reload, so maybe you know someone who does? Have him clean them in his vibratory case cleaner. It will take awhile, onless he has a large capacity like the Dillon CV 2001.

 

[Mannlicher]

I wouldn't bother. That Guat stuff sure shoots dirty too. Get ready for a lot of rifle cleaning.

 

[enfield]

I've used auto rubbing compound on a rag and chucked the ammo in a cordless drill.

 

[wingman]

I've used auto rubbing compound on a rag and chucked the ammo in a cordless drill.

Oh, Oh, I don't like the sound of that. Somehow that just can't be good.

 

[Deavis]

tumbler with walnut to take off most of the "grime" followed by corncob to polish it if you want it to look pretty. Dump it in there and let it run overnight.

 

[sako_75]

everything I've read says loaded ammo in a tumbler is a no no. The tumbling could start to break down the powder or the coatings on it and actually change the burning rate.
I use Never Dull applied buy hand to clean loaded ammo, but 1000 rounds is a lot to by hand.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Aah Sako_75...A breath of fresh air. You are absolutely right. And we will get lots of non-believers for this statement. One should never tumble loaded cartridges. Not only does it remove the coating from the grains, it will also turn the granuals to a smaller powder and definitely change the burn rate.

 

[Deavis]

sako, this subject has been covered before and it has been proven that tumbling loaded ammo does absolutely nothing to it. There are plenty of threads on here discussing it with one of the best by Bluesbear

I've tumbled over a million (1,000,000) rounds in Thumblers Model B tumblers,
using ¾-1 tablespoon kerosene per cycle in corn cob media. I am sorry but I cannot dilvulge the name of one of the world's largest small arms ammunition manufacturers from which I learned this trick.

I'd guess 90% was handgun ammmo but the rest was pointy bullet rifle ammo in .223, .308 & 30-06.

Never had a kaboom OR a Misfire. I had a 20-1 or 50-1 guarantee and never had to pay up.

There was also someone who did an experiment where they compared the specs of untumbled to tumbled (I think he tumbled it for a week in a Dillon tumbler) and found absolutely no difference in the performance. I can't find that link but I'm sure someone on here has it.

You do realize that powder is coated in graphite by... you guessed it... tumbling it.

 

[The Bushmaster]

And, you guessed it, they add the graphite to the tumbling mix to do just that. It's called "grazing". Now if you do not add the graphite............. As has been noted in other strings. There are other writers and authors that print BS. As I don't have a reason and will never tumble loaded ammunition (if it's that bad, I will disassemble and disgard it. I value my firearms) I guess I will never be able to prove it. A lot of my experience is from manufacturing my own black powder when I was much younger.

 

[BigSlick]

And, you guessed it, they add the graphite to the tumbling mix to do just that

I only buy powder that has some of the original graphite left on it from the mfr. tumbling process. This way tumbling ammo to remove lube is ok

I've dropped loaded rounds in the vibratory tumbler every time I've used lube, ever since I got my first one, back in the 80's.

I don't run it for a week, usually about 15 minutes does the trick nicely.

BigSlick

 

[The Bushmaster]

BigSlick...I see no problem with tumbling them for 10 to 15 minutes, but the guy, nobby, will have to tumble those thousand rounds of bargin cartridges much longer to clean them for firing in his firearm. I just don't see where that is a bargin when you are taking a chance of damaging a firearm or even worse. Copper jackets=no lube=no need to tumble after loading. Oh. Did I mention, minimizing lead poisoning also.

Back atcha BigSlick

 

[sako_75]

There are two schools on tumbling loaded ammo. One says it’s ok the other says its not. I can find published information from reliable sources for each. It looks like this issue, is one of those, that no one will convince you that the opposite of what you do is OK. So some of you may continue to tumble loaded ammo, I will stick to tumbling empty cases.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Sako_75...You may have turned a long and heated debate into "the end". But, I have to agree about the two schools of thought on this subject. Which means no winners. And I vote to not tumble loaded cases.

 

[BigSlick]

Did I mention, minimizing lead poisoning also

Ahem... drum roll please...

*MY* loaded ammo doesn't leak lead

Whether any of us agree on tumbling loaded rounds or not, I would still take the stuff back to the guy who sold it to me and ask for a replacement case, or credit toward another type of ammo. 100 culls out of a case, with MUCH of the rest of it looking marginal doesn't make me happy no matter how cheap it was.

Lyman says never tumble loaded ammo, RCBS says it's ok...

Does anyone have any first hand experience with a problem as a result of tumbling loaded ammo ?

I tumble mine in corn cob, in a seperate tumbler (Berry's) from the one I use to clean up range brass (Lyman), and never mix the two. The tumbler for range brass is filled with walnut.

I don my level 4 contamination suit when I fill the Lyman, wear a respirator and hold my breath. For the Berry's I wear flip flops and a thong

BigSlick

 

[Jeeper]

Factory ammo is tumbled

Commercial reloads are tumbled

If they do in then I cant see why anyone wouldnt.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I'm not sure that I need to tumble my loaded cartridges. I have people at the range that complain that my brass is too bright as they put on their sun glasses as it is now . As I own a Lyman tumbler and my main loading manual, of many, is a Lyman 48th edition. I will not tumble loaded cartridges.... :banghead:

 

[Deavis]

I'll tell you what, we can put this to rest right here on this board. I'll put together a 40S&W load with whatever powder you choose. Each case will be sized, trimmed, and reamed to ensure uniformity. I'll load 50 rounds up of it and place 1/2 in a tumbler for a week. In addition, I'll tumble 25 factory loaded WWB rounds along with them for a baseline. I'll disassemble 5 of them, photograph the powders, clock the remainder, and then post the results here. I'll even break it into splits by the day if you want and we can track the "degradation" trend that you say we'll observe.

So, name you load specs, what time intervals you want to test, and I'll take it from there. I'm getting a fresh batch of powder and bullets in 2 weeks and this would be a great addition to my other experiments I'm loading up. Just so you don't worry, I crunch semiconductor process experiments everyday for my job so I'm very good at keeping things straight Heck, I'll even put the results into our data analysis software to give us some pretty graphs to look at.

If somebody will volunteer to host the data results, that would help out a ton.

 

[The Bushmaster]

And we'll still not convince anyone and the arguement will go on. Do what you will and for Gods sake have fun doing it.

 

[JA]

If you see cows in a field eating grass they are "grazing".

Adding graphite to gun powder during mfg. is called "glazing".

 

[TC66]

Walnut husk in a tumbler.

 

[Deavis]

And we'll still not convince anyone and the arguement will go on. Do what you will and for Gods sake have fun doing it

We won't convince anyone because they are unreasonable and are incapable of changing their notions about their own infallibility or because the experiment I propose is somehow flawed?

This is a simple experiment that can clear up any questions on this subject. I'm proposing a scientific experiment that will be agreed by all, documented ad naseum, and peer reviewed right here on this board. I'll document every step I take and accompany it with enough pictures to make you sick. This is exactly how you prove an idea is right or wrong.

We can photograph the powder itself to see if it is harmed physically. I can probably get pictures of it under powerful optical scopes to show you exactly what it looks like after tumbling. If the powder is indeed broken down then it should be apparent in the microscopic pictures and in the chrony data.

You have nothing to lose here, this is a great opportunity to find out if you are right or wrong. If you are right, kudos to you. If you are wrong, who cares? We all learn something valuable and have a very credible study to cite supporting our case.

That is unless you are just too stubborn to take a chance on being wrong, in which case you lose even more credibility than actually being wrong. You can have fun and be wrong at the same time. If I'm wrong, I'll enjoy it the whole time because experiments like these are what make reloading fun.

 

[BigSlick]

Thanks Deavis

I think your 'experiment' will prove to be one of the longest running posts on the 'net. Everyone wants to hold on to their beliefs, but concrete fact *will* change some minds - and reinforce the opinions of others.

The use of a microscope and interval sampling is excellent. No arguing with fact.

I say go for it - and THANKS! again for your efforts.

Once we convince everyone of the facts about tumbling ammo, then maybe we can save a few fellow THR reloaders from dying from LEAD POISONING

BigSlick

 

[Deavis]

Maybe I'll even splurge and buy some Starline brass for this so nobody claims that the Winchester brass I normally use corrupted the experiment. You know, the brass used by everyone but Starline has these itty bitty imperfections placed in them at the factory that degrade the performance of the rounds. It is a conspiracy to keep us from becoming expert shots. Oh yeah, I forgot, the rounds given to LEOs don't have these imperfections either, that way when the revolution comes we'll miss and they won't!

Like I said before, if someone can host the results, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Jeeper]

Deavis,

I think that your idea is great! I will post all the pictures and data on my website if you like so that we can have a permant "hard copy" of it somewhere for people to point to in the future. It will be hard to satisfy everyone though. I can forsee several problems already:

Ball vs extruded powder
Air gap in the case
Time tumbled
Age of powder

I really doubt that however perfect you do it that everyone will accept it. A bunch of different rounds with various powders and so forth will improve the results though. I think it would be nice to have this with proof somewhere on the web.