How do you measure 5 grains of Unique?

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Ty 357

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I have been reloading some .38 and find 5 grains of Unique to be good for my application. As a new reloader I am extremely conscious of over/under charging so I am essentially weighing every charge. My problem has been finding a weigh (pun) to get consistent charges without taking such a long time.

I started with the .5cc scoop which puts me at +/- 4.5 grains and then trickle to 5. Works great but takes FOREVER.

I then tried to dial in a Lee perfect powder measure but could not get any sort of consistency whatsoever. Overcharge....start over. Undercharge...trickle trickle. Takes FOREVER.

I then fashioned a scoop using a spent 9mm case and tinfoil and can fairly consistently get 4.8-5.1 charges. But again, not exact and only slightly faster.

I'm using the "cheap" Lee scale to verify my charges. I frequently check my scale with a weight set.

Any advice based on these facts? I'd like to speed up the process if possible. For plinking ammo, how much charge variance would you consider acceptable if your target charge was 5 grains of unique?

Would I be "safe" to just use my homemade scoop if I felt the measure would fall between 4.8 and say 5.2....is that enough to matter for a plinking load?

Actual load here is mixed brass, cci small pistol, 5 grains unique, 158gr plated HP at 1.45 OAL.

I don't have chrono but recoil is average and accuracy is okay. I'm using the jhp for target because I got quite a bit cheap. Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post...I'm a newb :)
 
You should be fine that way, specially if your using a .357 to shoot them with. It may be a good idea to check a load every now and again to make sure it is staying in the range. I throw 5 grains with my auto discs and it varies a bit but last night I did 500 9mm's and the only real problem I had was a no throw in a case. But that is why you look in the case for powder.
 
Unique doesn't meter great even in the best measures. Plus or minus one or two tenths is common. On target results are what count. 700X is that way. Poor metering, great shooting, at least in some apps.
 
You want to speed things up you are gonna have to spend some money.
RCBS 5-0-5 powder scale
RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure--This throws all powders very consistently.
 
I get 4.0 grains of unique through my Lee Perfect powder measure at .5 on mine. Are you clear on how to read your scale? Did you run one full hopper full of powder through before you used it?

ReRead the directions on reading your metering bar! If you have never read calipers or micrometers it can be confusing.

Once you do find the setting you want write it down on your box for future reference.

Mine throws four grains pretty close to spot on. Make sure you don't have any drafts or people running around your house while your checking the charge weight.
Get a set of check weights close to your charge weight. Once I got set it sped things up because I Knew what I was checking.

I'm pretty new to reloading but I had a good teacher. Good luck.
 
If your looking for coke can ammo and your not near max loads, a few tenths one way or the other doesn't matter. If you want bullseye ammo then invest in more precise equipment.
I won't call it better because your needs dictate what is good enough. I have all Lee equipment cause that fills my need.
 
I appreciate all of the feedback.

@dbb1776

I have read the directions on the scale and I use a 5gr weight from RCBS to periodically check my scale's reading and verify my charges. It is a VERY sensitive scale as you know, which adds to the weighing time. I have a dedicated place on the bench that is verified true level and essentially holds the scale in place.

I have read and reread the directions on the powder measure. I did initially run a hopper of unique through it. I have disassembled and graphite lubed the rubber "lip." I have adjusted and adjusted...I am quite a patient person and I do read directions. I have also watched youtube videos, searched forums, etc. I think perhaps Unique just does not meter well out of the lee powder measure. I can get 5 grains with it...but then I may get an over/under charge of as much as .4. I get much closer to 5 consistently by using the scoop.

I have all Lee equipment and I am happy with it overall.

Thanks to everyone for verifying what I suspected...that a tenth or two in either direction shouldn't be an issue. I'll periodically check my loads with the scale, but I'm not going to weigh every charge from now on.

On a side note...this load smokes LESS than WWB out of a 4 inch Mdl 19. Recoil is about the same and accuracy about the same. And no unburned powder that I can see. I'm quite pleased with Unique.
 
I shoulda watched some YouTube Vids! I didn't understand Lee's directions until I read them 2 or 3 times.
Since I started reloading I feel like I'm wasting ammo if I shoot guns I don't reload for.
Have fun!
 
I then fashioned a scoop using a spent 9mm case and tinfoil and can fairly consistently get 4.8-5.1 charges.
Click to expand...
A variation of .3gr is normal/maximum even with a good powder measure.
Would I be "safe" to just use my homemade scoop if I felt the measure would fall between 4.8 and say 5.2....is that enough to matter for a plinking load?
Click to expand...
No, not safe.You got these results by weighing each charge. Your 5.2gr with a 158 bullet is working very close to my maximum of 5.3gr load with cast.You should stay away from 5.2gr to be safe using a dipper. When using mixed brass, pressures change. Plus when you just start happily dipping away, some charges will go over maximum. Don't ask me how i know. :eek:
 
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No, not safe.You got these results by weighing each charge. Your 5.2gr with a 158 bullet is working very close to my maximum of 5.3gr load with cast.You should stay away from 5.2gr to be safe using a dipper. When using mixed brass, pressures change. Plus when you just start happily dipping away, some charges will go over maximum. Don't ask me how i know.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice!

You'll note that I initially stated my dipper throws 4.8 - 5.1. I intentionally tweaked my scoop to fall on the lower side of 5. In other words when I dip a "heaping" charge I hit right at 5.1. An average puts me at 4.9 - 5.

When I indicated the safe variance between 4.8 and 5.2 I was adding in an even greater margin for error on the high side, even though I don't think it would be possible to actually dip a 5.2 charge with my home made measure.

I appreciate your insight. I am new and I am extremely wary of overcharging. In fact, I started with .38 because I knew I could shoot it out of .357 frames. (I'm almost embarassed to say, but I shot the first few loads out of an N frame Smith just to be cautious.) That said, I want to feel comfortable shooting these loads out of ANY .38 caliber handgun, so in the long run I am going to find a good method for quickly and accurately dropping 5 grains of unique. All of the feedback is much appreciated.
 
When I indicated the safe variance between 4.8 and 5.2 I was adding in an even greater margin for error on the high side, even though I don't think it would be possible to actually dip a 5.2 charge with my home made measure
Click to expand...
You should be fine then.
 
In general, any powder measure will be more accurate (repeatable) than using a dipper.

Unique has known problems, creating a larger standard deviation in weights than easy metering powders like Bullseye, W231, or AA #9.

I would go back and practice your consistency with the Perfect Powder Measure. This article comparing powder measure performance reports the Lee as being vbery close to average performance at 1/5th the price.

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-4_PowdersAnd Measures.htm
 
"As a new reloader I am extremely conscious of over/under charging so I am essentially weighing every charge."

Understandable concern and common with noobs, we've all been there. Actually, most of us soon learn that high precision charges, say +/- .1, or even .2 gr isn't even helpful for most loads, perhaps especially so for handgun ammo nor are such tiny "over charges" routinely unsafe. Thus, +/- .2 gr. has long been my acceptable standard.

For that, I've long gone to dropping charges straight from my Redding measure in ALL my handgun cases sitting in a loading block. Then I hold the charged block under a strong light that shines inside and casts a shadow at the top of the powder colume. That way I can visually check for consistancy AND any missed cases. Most pistol powders are bulky enough to allow me to see differences greater than perhaps .2 gr so I can pull them and re-charge to get it right. And that rarely happens.

Operated consistantly, I suspect your present measure is as "accurate" (or maybe better) than any other; none of them are great. But, IF you do want a "better" measure, the Lyman 55 works about the best of any for dropping small charges.
 
Lyman 55 Powder Measure.

I keep hearing Unique won't measure accuratly. This is what I find: The Lyman 55 will throw Unique within 0.0005 grain consistently.

My technique is to start with the handle down. Raise the handle. Wait for the powder to settle. Don't use the knocker, just let the powder settle. The little bump you get when the handle hits the stop is sufficient to get the powder to settle. Bring the handle down to cut the powder. Now use the knocker to assure the powder all dropped.

Be consistent. Same speed of movement each stroke.
 
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@ jumping frog

cut and paste from the website you suggested

While testing Unique, throwing the "big" charges, the first 21 charges weighed from 23.8 grains to 24.9 grains. Charge 22 weighed 27.5 grains, followed by 27.5, 27.5, 27.8, 27.7 grains, where I stopped.

I checked the scale zero, took the measure apart and cleaned it, put it together and threw 30 "big" charges without a hitch.

Something bad happened to the Lee measure while throwing the first set of Unique charges, bad enough to give me the willies. I don't think that the Lee Perfect measure meets the threshold requirements for a reasonable and safe powder measure.
Click to expand...

There was ALOT of information to digest in the article, very informative.

I have been loading 50 rounds in a sitting. The last step after charging has been looking at the volume of the cases in total with a flashlight. A simple side by side comparison to make sure nothing appears askew. An interesting tip in the article was using a dowel fitted to the inside diameter of the cartridge to measure each case...this would certainly be more accurate than just eyeballing. The flashlight test seems like more of a "double" charge test, where the dowell might pick up a "heavy" charge that might pass the flashlight test. I might try that tonight.

One thing is certain. Reloading is a lot more rewarding/fun than I anticipated and I wish I would have started sooner.

Two regrets in all of my years in the shooting sports. I waited way too long to own a 1911 and way to long to get a press. Happy shooting.
 
@ ranger335v, thanks for the insight. That's the response I was hoping for re: +/- variance with this load.

@ james2...thanks for the info. You should take a look at the linked article. It specifically discusses tests with the Lyman 55 and metering unique.
 
Ty,

I'm glad you posted. I am also new to relaoding and have been measuring my Unique powder out of the Lee Powder Perfect Measure and weighing with the Lee powder magnetic scale. As you may already know, you multiply the VMD of Unique which is .1029 by the 5gr which gives you .51cc which you dial in the Perfect Powder. You then have to reweigh to confirm its true weight. I am sure it wasn't close to 5gr. -exactly what happened to me.

According to the instructions that came with the Perfect Powder Measure, each batch of powder will come in differently so the VMD will not always be the same. You will then have to find the VMD of that batch of powder. Firstly dial in a measurement on the Perfect Powde scale, say 1cc. Then weigh that amount in grains. Then divide cc/actual weight in gr which should give you the VMD. My batch of Unique had a VMD of .1365. I then used that to calculate the cc. It has been exact.

Also, make sure the amount of powder in the dispenser should always be consistent. A half bottle will spill more gr of powder a little more than a bottle that is near empty.

Good luck. I hope that helped.:)
 
I second both the Lyman #55 Powder Measure and Accurate Powder. Accurate #5 would be good for the 38 special. Even with a good powder measure Unique loads can drift, so check every 10 rounds or so. With the Lyman #55, Accurate powders stay perfect for over 200 consecutive rounds. I did that a couple of nights ago loading 44 Mag with Accurate #9.

I was very dissatisfied with the Lee Perfect Powder measure. It is lightweight plastic and mine started leaking powder after a few loading sessions. I don't want equipment that I have to dissassemble and fix when it is still new. Get a better powder measure and your reloading will be much less tedious.

Bill
 
Also, make sure the amount of powder in the dispenser should always be consistent. A half bottle will spill more gr of powder a little more than a bottle that is near empty.
Click to expand...

BP Hunter.....THAT is an incredibly interesting statement. And it makes sense to me. And I know for a fact that when I first started tweaking the measure I had a nearly full hopper. I know after running that load through I only put a small amount of powder back in to do more tweaking and testing.

Many thanks for your post. It makes sense. I will use your math and see where that gets me. Admittedly I did not approach it that way. I never made it to the second calculation that you did. But rather "backed into" my setting by trial and error and then gave up completely when I continued to throw charge after charge that varied by .4 grains or more on the magnetic scale.

So do you maintain a fairly constant amount of powder in the hopper? Say, never below half full...or soemthing like that?

I am comfortable with the tangible side of things for now. Dipper then weigh until = 5 grains. Verify scale with 5 grain weight. Final check with flashlight and seat bullet.

Just looking for any info to speed things up without compromising confidence in the load. I'll revisit the perfect powder dispenser in the next day or so. Thanks.
 
What I have found that makes the rounds accurate is not that I am exactly loading 5 grains of powder but, that I am loading consistant charges of powder.

Example: If my powder measure, regardless of the type (scoop, powder measure, homemade thingy etc.), throws consistant loads, say 4.9 grains consistantly instead of the 5.0 grains average, my shots should/will remain consistant and thereby giving me consistantly accurate ammunition.

The same applies to bullet weights also. If you meter your powder down to the the tenth of a grain and your bullets vary +/- 1-2 grains then your powder charge is not an issue anymore. I do sort my bullets to the whole grain and it makes a huge difference

Since you are new to loading I will tell you that when you find what works for you, you will be fine.
Be well.
Al
 
The linked article was interesting. Lots of info there.

The Lyman 55 comes with two drop tubes. One for small diameter brass like 22 cal, and one with a larger hole for 30 cal. and larger. The only time I have had problems with bridging is when using any tubular powder with small necked rounds using the small drop tube. Like for instance 3031 in 222 Rem.

This is never a problem though as the loads are such that it comes close to filling the casing so any deviation is immediately visible.

I have not had problems with bridging using any of the pistol powders.

I use the scale to set the measure. Set the scale on the charge you want. Take a guess on where to set the powder measure. I never bother with the scales on the measure slide. Drop a charge in the pan and set it on the scale. Of course it is going to be off. Set the measure a little more or less, whichever is needed and throw another charge. Weigh, adjust etc, and repeat until the measuer is set to throw the charge you want.

I just use the top two slides on the 55 for metering small amounts of powder. The main chamber is for large loads, and it will throw some very large loads if needed.

I should do the thirty throw test and record results with Unique, just for the heck of it.

I have always felt good about dropping charges directly into the cartridge without weighing after getting the 55 measure set to the desired load. Weigh about every tenth load to look for consistency. Yes, even with Unique.

After dropping powder into a casing, the casing goes into a loading block, and when it is full I will visually inspect each one to make sure each has powder in it and look for any that look heavy or light. Then I will seat bullets.

Hope some of this may be of use. Its a great hobby.
 
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RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure--This throws all powders very consistently.
Click to expand...
Mine doesn't seem to. Sometimes I will have to have it throw 4-5 loads before it gets one that measures what I want it to. Each measures differently. Some too heavy some too light. This is with stick type powder though which I hear is hard to get to measure in a powder measure like this.
 
Hi guys. I'm new here, but I think I may be able to help out a little. I've dealt with the same problems with Unique before. One thing that I found that helps a lot is to settle the powder in the measure before throwing any charges. Just tap on the side of the measure with a ruler or something like that until the level in the meter stops dropping. I don't remember if it has been mentioned or not, but you should always throw out the first charge that you throw. It is very unlikely that it will be the same as subsequent charges. You should also throw out the first charge you throw after making any adjustment or letting the meter sit unused for a while.

I'm using a Hornady measure right now, and it will keep Unique within .1 grain as measured by an RCBS 505 if I use the methods above. If you can't get Unique to meter for you, you might want to try Bullseye. It is a fine grained powder that flows well. It also gives me better consistency across the chrono in .38 as well. There are also several other powders that flow well and work well in .38 like W231/HP-38 (they are the same), and Titegroup. You just have to find one you can live with. I've always found that part of the fun of reloading is trying new stuff. You never know when you might find the magical component that makes your groups halve in size!

By the way, this may be my first post, but I'm not exactly new to shooting and reloading. I've been shooting since I could keep both ends of a long gun off the ground, and loading for the last 15 years or so.
 
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