How do you tell cops you're armed in traffic stop?

[ForumSurfer]

Yep. When I'm in the car and moving, the gun isn't in a holster. It's pinned under my leg or in the seat anyway.

I'm not trying to sound preachy at all first of all. To each his/her own. I ride like that when in an unknown area or carrying cash from a side job...call me paranoid.

I do however make a conscious effort not to do that unless it's in my holster or in a secured holster in the vehicle. I'd hate to get in a wreck and get hit in the head by a flying, loaded chunk of steel. I've also been in an accident where I was blindside by a gentleman running a red light. Several items flew out of my driver-side window. Thankfully my then new Kimber wasn't one of them. Afterward, I imagined how sheepish I would have felt running up and down the street in the immediate vicinity trying to find my firearm before someone else did had it been ejected from the truck.

I also learned first hand the crazy forces exerted in a high speed collision before. I once was in a motorcycle accident. The force knocked my shoes off, my helmet visor off, my sunglasses (yes, it was stupid to be wearing them) off, emptied my pockets completely and sent my Spyderco stainless police edition out of my pocket and through some stranger's house's front window. I was amazed. I flew 40+ feet and the pocket knife flew 30 feet on a 90 degree angle difference from my trajectory. I never spoke to the gentleman, but he gave my knife to the trooper. It's nice to know that some people are nice enough to return a great knife that "just fell out of the sky." I could only imagine what a loaded 1911 would do to my head at much lower speeds.

That's one reason I finally got a CHP. I didn't feel that riding around with my gun not concealed (and secured) was safe. If you mount it in a holster between the seats, I'm sure some would argue that to be borderline concealed.

Still, I'm very bad for riding with my Glock under my leg.

 

[1911Tuner]

That would be a felony in Ohio.

Glad I'm not in Ohio...

I'm not trying to sound preachy...To each his own

Good. Good. Exactly.

 

[jnocker]

I hand the LEO both my TDL & CHL.

When (IF) he asks if I am carrying, I answer "yes sir" or "no sir".

Twice I have been asked where I had it and the LEO's instruction was to "leave it there".

Once, I was not even asked if I was carrying.

 

[Moose23]

If you have a CCW permit, leave the weapon where you have it stored. If you don't have a CCW permit, place it where it can be easily seen by the officer as he/she approaches (dash or passenger seat). Place both hands outside the driver side window, again where the officer can easily see them, and leave them there. As soon as he/she makes eye contact, tell them "Officer/Deputy/Trooper, I have a pistol in the vehicle". Then wait for his/her instructions.

I have never had my weapon taken. And in most cases, I was thanked by the officer for showing my hands & telling him I had the weapon.

 

[archigos]

If you have a CCW permit, leave the weapon where you have it stored. If you don't have a CCW permit, place it where it can be easily seen by the officer as he/she approaches (dash or passenger seat). Place both hands outside the driver side window, again where the officer can easily see them, and leave them there. As soon as he/she makes eye contact, tell them "Officer/Deputy/Trooper, I have a pistol in the vehicle". Then wait for his/her instructions.

Its still none of their business. Assuming you're not in a state that requires you to inform, its your option to tell them, but you are choosing to waive your rights by doing so.
It only becomes their business if you're a criminal who intends to use the weapon to do harm to the officer, and I don't exactly foresee many people saying "Officer, I have a handgun in my glove compartment, and I'm going to shoot you with it in a few seconds."

 

[Sam1911]

but you are choosing to waive your rights by doing so.

I don't agree. If I feel I HAVE to inform (either because of state law wherever I am or because I think it will become visible during the stop), I DON'T waive my rights. I may inform him, but I will not consent to a search. I will not consent to have my gun's numbers "run" without probable cause.

Informing where required or prudent is not the same thing as waiving your rights.

 

[One-Time]

I dont tell them im armed, its not required by Fl law to do so and will only inconvenience you if you announce it

 

[archigos]

Informing where required or prudent is not the same thing as waiving your rights.

I wasn't implying that people should never inform (they clearly should inform when required or prudent). If I thought there was a chance of a cop noticing that I'm carrying, I certainly would inform him before he noticed because I wouldn't want him thinking even for a moment I was carrying illegally.
However, police have absolutely no right to know that you are carrying if you are a law abiding citizen. Telling them "just because" is giving in to the mentality that we're doing something wrong by wanting to defend ourselves and our families.

 

[brboyer]

I don't inform any more unless they directly ask if I have any weapons. I used to tell cops that I carry. A Sergeant with the Orange County Sheriff's office changed all of that, back in 2000. I was sitting at a stop light for a pretty long period of time, and after about 10 minutes assumed it must be broken. There was no traffic, so I went.

The deputy came up behind me and pulled me over. I still do not know where he came from, I never saw him until he was on my bumper. He asked me to step out of the car, so I did. I handed him my DL, registration, CCW permit, and Insurance. When he saw the CCW, he asked if I had a weapon. I told him yes.

He stepped back, put his hand on his pistol, and told me, "Make one move and I will kill you where you stand." Then he said, "Go ahead, try me. I bet I am faster."

I asked him what his problem was, and he began cursing me out, calling me names, and was a real jerk. Bragging about his 20 years on the force, etc.

I do not tell anymore, and yes I do have things to hide. I don't want people to know what my medical history is, nor do I want people to know details of the sex life between my wife and me, nor do I want anyone to have access to my financial information, like credit card numbers, etc. It is personal and private. No searches for you, unless you have a warrant or are arresting me. Just because I have something to hide does not mean that the "something" that I am hiding is illegal.

I would have invited him prove it....


















Asking him to come to an IDPA or USPSA or 3-Gun match. 95% chance he would embarrass himself.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I would have invited him prove it....

Asking him to come to an IDPA or USPSA or 3-Gun match. 95% chance he would embarrass himself.

Boy! Am I glad you clarified that!

 

[xcgates]

Definately, I was on my rather small-screened desktop, and had to scroll down for the entirety of that post!

 

[JohnKSa]

Yeah...I know John...but my day of hittin' the ground and chargin' the gates of hell are over, I fear. Whenever I see a gunfight in progress, I usually try to unass the AO instead of rushin' headlong into it.

Yeah, that's not really where I was going.

If you hit a big pothole or get in a fender bender or perhaps have a major accident, who knows where the gun will end up. Besides the aspect of the gun not being available to you if you can't find it or if it ends up out of reach, a gun would be a pretty nasty projectile during an accident. A 2lb hunk of steel flying around inside a vehicle during a wreck isn't a happy thought.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I think an officer could argue that once you informed him you had a loaded weapon in the car it was prudent, in the name of officer safety, to retrieve the weapon and secure it. In a sense you gave him probable cause to search your vehicle for the weapon. I doubt highly you are going to be able to deny the officer access to your car to retrieve the weapon or deny his search for it once you have told him it is there. It would not give him the right to search the rest of the car because using your legal weapon as PC to search the rest of your car for something illegal would probably be shakey ground for the officer. Once the officer has your weapon I'm willing to bet he might run the numbers. Maybe not, but the whole situation is moot if he never has a reason to put his hands on it in the first place. I don't worry about telling him personally, I'm the last guy and officer needs to worry about.

Yeah, that's not really where I was going.

If you hit a big pothole or get in a fender bender or perhaps have a major accident, who knows where the gun will end up. Besides the aspect of the gun not being available to you if you can't find it or if it ends up out of reach, a gun would be a pretty nasty projectile during an accident. A 2lb hunk of steel flying around inside a vehicle during a wreck isn't a happy thought.

If the officer misjudged your stop and rear ended you it wouldn't be the first time that happened either. I would hate to get a bump from him and be on the floorboard looking for my weapon when he comes up to apologize. If I'm on a long trip, I normally put mine in the console or in the glove compartment. The pocket in the drivers side door isn't too bad of a spot either.

 

[Sam1911]

I think an officer could argue that once you informed him you had a loaded weapon in the car it was prudent, in the name of officer safety, to retrieve the weapon and secure it.

"Probable cause" relates to the apparant commission of a CRIME. What is the "Probable cause" here?

In a sense you gave him probable cause to search your vehicle for the weapon.

There's no "in a sense" about it. There is either probable cause or there isn't. If it is "stretched" or fabricated, a complaint should definitely be filed.

I doubt highly you are going to be able to deny the officer access to your car to retrieve the weapon or deny his search for it once you have told him it is there.

In practice, maybe not. But you can tell him that you don't consent to a search. And you can file a complaint (or a lawsuit, depending) on what he does after that.

It would not give him the right to search the rest of the car because using your legal weapon as PC to search the rest of your car for something illegal would probably be shakey ground for the officer.

Once he's in the car, what he sees there is fair game. Important that you don't open for him or give consent to that search.

Once the officer has your weapon I'm willing to bet he might run the numbers.

On what grounds? That is a kind of search.

Maybe not, but the whole situation is moot if he never has a reason to put his hands on it in the first place.

Amen!

I don't worry about telling him personally, I'm the last guy and officer needs to worry about.

Oh, sure. But in conducting a "fishing expedition" he flouts your rights and jeopardizes your freedom. You may want to be his friend -- help him out -- make his day "safer" and easier. But he's there looking for violations you have committed and laws you might be breaking, it's his job. With the greatest respect in the world for all our LEOs, when you are being detained he is NOT on your side.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

well

Once he's in the car, what he sees there is fair game. Important that you don't open for him or give consent to that search.


i fond a sneaky way around that. i found god and went all legal and law abiding. i miss the revolution sometimes though

 

[jon_in_wv]

"Probable cause" relates to the apparant commission of a CRIME. What is the "Probable cause" here?

Its not a matter of "probable cause". You TOLD him there was a loaded weapon and he will have a legal right to retrieve and secure the weapon in the name of "officer safety". Like I said, he would need your consent to search any more than that but he would be in the right to retrieve the weapon and it would be unwise to resist that effort. If you tell him, "I have my weapon in the glove compartment" he may retrieve it but to go anywhere else he would need your consent to search UNLESS he decides to run the numbers and finds a hit on it in which case he then may have PC to search the rest of the vehicle. If he sees anything illegal in the course of retrieving your weapon (without searching outside the parameter of the retrieval) that discovery would be incidental and admissible as well. (example: Your 1911 is sitting on top of your bag of weed, doh!)
I don't like to say that any officer I deal with is NOT on my side. As a law abiding citizen I feel the officer IS on my side. BUT he doesn't know that so its best to be prudent and use a little caution and wisdom when dealing with the officer. Good guys and bad guys look exactly the same and bad guys will ALWAYS say they are "good guys" too. That being said, bad cops and good cops look the same too. Most cops are the good guys though. Lets not forget that.

i fond a sneaky way around that. i found god and went all legal and law abiding.

That is pretty radical thinking right there. You should watch your step our you'll end up on a watch list somewhere! I hope God blesses all you do brother.

 

[jon_in_wv]

On what grounds? That is a kind of search.

Not really. Its like running your license plate, he is only checking the GOVERNMENTS records. If there is any record its not yours anyhow. If the weapon is listed as stolen it was listed by the owner and posted to NCIC by the reporting agency. It is not your record. I agree it is invasive and I believe it has been considered intrusive by the courts to run numbers without some type of reasonable assumption the weapon is stolen. Its kind of like randomly running license plates as you go down the street. That are not allowed to do that but when they pull you over they have every right to do it. If you do not have a permit or are carrying the weapon in an illegal fashion I would be willing to bet they are running some numbers too. If you are carrying it legally and in the prescribed manner, I think you could assume they won't.

 

[Sam1911]

UNLESS he decides to run the numbers and finds a hit on it in which case he then may have PC to search the rest of the vehicle.

I'm just going to quote NavyLT on this (from the OTHER current thread on notifying/disarming):

3. Then the question of did the officer check the serial number of the gun against a stolen list? That is totally and completely beyond the scope of a search and seizure for officer safety. The officer had absolutely no indication that gun might be stolen, and at that point, also running the serial number of the gun would give no additional evidence nor protect evidence already gathered for the traffic stop. So the actions of running the serial number would be completely unjustified and against the 4th Amendment.

So...like I said, it is an unreasonable search.

 

[jon_in_wv]

That is what I just said. You are being argumentative when there is no argument.

 

[Sam1911]

That is what I just said. You are being argumentative when there is no argument.

Really? You think so?

I said that it is an unreasonable search and you said, not really because the records belong to the government. I was providing my (well, NavyLT's) thoughts as to why that isn't the issue.

If you agree, that's fine. I didn't take your meaning.

Also, I don't agree that, "If you are carrying it legally and in the prescribed manner, I think you could assume they won't" [run the numbers] because here in PA we have a documented problem with that exact thing. PSP officers running the numbers on every gun they hold against a database of FFL handgun transfers and using that as a kind of owners registry. When (even a legal) gun doesn't show up in the database, they've been known to confiscate and hold it until forced to release it.

 

[CalebJns]

Here in AL we are not required to inform...about 2 Summers ago, me and a buddy were coming back from a day at the golf course and it had started raining really hard (makes more sense on into the story). There was a set of train tracks in front of us, and a train was going by, so we were sitting in traffic. The police station is situated to the right front (for visual reference). We were sitting behind an 18 Wheeler, which was blocking the entrance to the police department (one of them anyway). There is a turn up in front of him across the street from the PD, that would allow me to go further down the tracks and miss the train. The train is blocking traffic from coming the other direction, I am half a trailer length from the "turn", the entrance to the PD is blocked, there is no traffic other than behind me. I pulled out, and made my turn...the LEO jumped the curb, squeezed between 2 cars ,and proceeded to follow me. He turned his lights on, I pulled over in a CVS parking lot to get out of traffic. He comes to my window, I hand him my License, my Insurance, CWP. He NEVER asked if I was carrying, so I never offered (I was though). He proceeded to ask me to get out of the vehicle, places me in the back of his (so he didn't have to stand in the rain), told me I made an illegal turn and could have caused an accident, ran my info, I was watching, it pooped up I had a CWP, still never asked. I am in the back of the car, the middle window open, have a weapon on my side, (was never frisked before being placed in the back, or put in cuffs). look over to my left, there is a Knife, his Night Stick, 2 Box of Shells (Pistol and Shotgun), pencils, pens, etc...I proceeded to make small talk, he didn't appreciate...he handed me my stuff, rolled the back window down, and told me to leave the vehicle. I promptly went back to my vehicle, my buddy and I had a few words about how "pleasant" the officer seemed, I drove to the PD, disarmed myself, and asked to speak to the chief...advised him on the days events, He removed the ticket I had received, and advised me he would "Handle the Situation". Honestly I don't know what the LEO would have done if I would have told him I was carrying. I wasn't about to tell him as I was sitting in the back of his car, or on the way to the car...he had all the information available, to him, he never acted on it. I advised the Chief that I was concerned with the way the officers were being trained, the safety of them, and that IF I were a crazy guy, I could have very easily shot him, climbed through the window, and left...I could have stabbed him, hit him with his own night stick, taken the shotgun, the M4, etc. I voiced my concerns about not even being asked, frisked, told him I would have understood about being cuffed even...So my thought is, if they don't ask, don't tell, it will save a lot of headache, if they do, be honest, be compliant, and don't joke around with them...they are nervous already, just be the good citizen you are, and allow them to do their jobs. - Never have seen the officer again, not really sure what happened, they do however, have their backseats cleaned out, and all their "stuff" is in the front seat with them...I walked by one not to long after and glanced in, and it was all up front. Not sure about the training, and procedures, but the Chief did listen to some of my concerns...

 

[SteelyNirvana]

The only time I've been pulled when carrying, I had my hands outside the door and also had my head stuck out, waiting for him to approach. When he said "How are you this evening" I said "I need to let you know I am openly carrying a firearm" and all he said was "That's fine, thanks for letting me know".

It was a pretty casual traffic stop. Wrecked my car months ago, still drivable but only one headlight. Got pulled about 9pm. When I told him about the gun (Laying on dash in plain view) he just ask for my drivers license and said he was just curious what happened to the car, how long ago and when I planned on getting it fixed. Told him when the tags got close to running out in July, I then would either decided to fix or get another car. He kinda laughed a bit and said "You know if your other headlight goes out, your screwed" and I told him I did. Handed my license back and told me to have a good night. On the way back to his car, he stopped and turned back around "By the way, I like your bumper sticker, it's funny as hell" [Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donell fat]. I smiled and told him thanks and went on my way.

I have never met a North Carolina Highway Patrolman that laid back and I've met a few of them over the years. Wish all of them were like him.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I said that it is an unreasonable search and you said, not really because the records belong to the government. I was providing my (well, NavyLT's) thoughts as to why that isn't the issue.

This is what I wrote earlier.

I agree it is invasive and I believe it has been considered intrusive by the courts to run numbers without some type of reasonable assumption the weapon is stolen. Its kind of like randomly running license plates as you go down the street. That are not allowed to do that but when they pull you over they have every right to do it. If you do not have a permit or are carrying the weapon in an illegal fashion I would be willing to bet they are running some numbers too. If you are carrying it legally and in the prescribed manner, I think you could assume they won't.

As far as I'm concerned there is no disagreement there. Moving along.

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

I don't.





.

 

[Deanimator]

i fond a sneaky way around that. i found god and went all legal and law abiding. i miss the revolution sometimes though

That guy from North Carolina who got falsely arrested by the Fairfax County, VA cops was "all legal and law abiding" too. Didn't seem to help him much, did it?

If the cop sees something he THINKS is illegal, you're going to have problems. Make him do his job with no shortcuts.

Letter of the law.