Mastrogiacomo
Member
For someone that doesn't have a lot of money... if hired to do armed security, a job I recently interviewed for, how does Second Chance rate for cost and protection?
How good is Second Chance vests?
- Thread starter Mastrogiacomo
- Start date
- Status
SDC
Member
They're on the expensive side, but well worth it in terms of protection; Rich Davis is someone who stands behind his product (literally; he shoots himself in the chest on a regular basis to demonstrate what his vests will stop).
OP
OP
Mastrogiacomo
Member
Now that's what I call having a lot of faith in your products...
I wouldn't mind spending under $500 for a good vest but I'd want something that would protect me from bullets and knife attacks. A job I'm looking at -- no idea if I'd get but looking at -- would put me on the 3-11:00 pm shift. Leaving Boston's North End that late for a woman taking the trains, getting the car in the station and driving home is a risk. At the very least, a vest would help my parents sleep better....
I wouldn't mind spending under $500 for a good vest but I'd want something that would protect me from bullets and knife attacks. A job I'm looking at -- no idea if I'd get but looking at -- would put me on the 3-11:00 pm shift. Leaving Boston's North End that late for a woman taking the trains, getting the car in the station and driving home is a risk. At the very least, a vest would help my parents sleep better....
OP
OP
Mastrogiacomo
Member
Just checked the prices. I guess there's no such thing as a vest under $500....
Erick is right -- there is a really big (and vital) debate going on RIGHT NOW about what materials should and should not be used in body armor.
Take a look at this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29691
Take a look at this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29691
David Park
Member
Check out the police surplus vests at http://www.bulletproofme.com if you don't have a lot of cash. They loaned me one of their surplus vests (a Safariland) while they were making my custom vest (I wear a size xtra-small, xtra-tall ) and it really was "like new." Very nice people to deal with as well. Unless you're facing a specific threat, standard Level II Kevlar is relatively cheap, comfortable, and offers good protection from most handguns.
) and it really was "like new." Very nice people to deal with as well. Unless you're facing a specific threat, standard Level II Kevlar is relatively cheap, comfortable, and offers good protection from most handguns.Guys, there is alot of talk about the use of Zylon in the current light/thin armor made by many different manf. There is a whole slew of information over at www.tacticalforums.com in the MD Labs portion.
Having said that I have and wear on a daily basis a Second Chance vest, but it is made out of aramid.
You could probably get a good vest for around 500 new from a dealer, I purchased mine from New York Clothiers out of Texas, dealt with a guy named Brian. Here is where you can find there current pricing http://www.newyorkclothiers.com/store/body armor/order page.htm
Good luck on your job!
Having said that I have and wear on a daily basis a Second Chance vest, but it is made out of aramid.
You could probably get a good vest for around 500 new from a dealer, I purchased mine from New York Clothiers out of Texas, dealt with a guy named Brian. Here is where you can find there current pricing http://www.newyorkclothiers.com/store/body armor/order page.htm
Good luck on your job!
Combat-wombat
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,683
you'll have to get a special seperate vest against knife attacks, kevlar wont stop 'em. I don't know how much the knife proof vests cost, but they won't stop bullets. Therefore, you need both.
Fed168
Member
I think the last count was around 800 saves, from shootings to car accidents. I would recommend getting a sample of fabric to test, and check out the videos they produce on the vests. They have demonstrations and accounts from users.
Sunray
Member
I know a Metro Toronto copper who was saved by his 2nd Chance model Y from an ice pick in the back. Granted it was a woman who changed her mind as they were hauling her husband out after she called the cops, but the guy, last I heard is still alive and working.
And kevlar vests deteriorate over time, so don't buy used.
And kevlar vests deteriorate over time, so don't buy used.
The only reason Kevlar should degrade is if it were to be exposed to a lot of UV light or harse chemicals (bleach, etc).
Most vests have their Kevlar panels protected by cotton or other material that will stop UV from degrading them. So I guess as long as you don't wash your vest in the washing machine, all will be well.
Even so, Kevlar has a long track record behind it, being invented in the 60s and all. With all the suspicion around vests made of Spectra or Zylon, I'd rather go with the tried and true alternative.
Most vests have their Kevlar panels protected by cotton or other material that will stop UV from degrading them. So I guess as long as you don't wash your vest in the washing machine, all will be well.
Even so, Kevlar has a long track record behind it, being invented in the 60s and all. With all the suspicion around vests made of Spectra or Zylon, I'd rather go with the tried and true alternative.
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
What is 'Aramid'? I ran a search on Tacticalforums and saw threads on them but confused whether Aramid is a Good Thing or Bad Thing
Aramids are part of the Nylon family. They include Kevlar, Nomex, Twaron, and the like. Basically man made fibers.
UHMW polyethylenes, on the other hand, are more related to plastic than anything else. These include Spectra and Dyneema.
Zylon belongs in the PBO family.
Like chemistry?
http://www.pleo.com/dupont/nomex/
UHMW polyethylenes, on the other hand, are more related to plastic than anything else. These include Spectra and Dyneema.
Zylon belongs in the PBO family.
Like chemistry?
http://www.pleo.com/dupont/nomex/
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,505
Rich Davis does stand behind his products. Just look at all those tapes of him blasting himself. Zylon is good, but it's useful lifespan is much shorter than Kevlar 129. Hence Davis recalled a lot of those vests. Kudos to him for being upright & honest.
The more recent thread on THR is at:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43008
I'd be willing to allow Rich Davis to shoot himself while wearing my 4 year, 9 month Ultima vest, but I doubt he'd do it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43008
I'd be willing to allow Rich Davis to shoot himself while wearing my 4 year, 9 month Ultima vest, but I doubt he'd do it.
go_crazy4_free
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 2
Stab resistance is different from slash resistance. If you are attacked by someone with a knife the attacker will probably try to stab down on you instead of thrusting straight forward. The knife will travel both sideways (with the edge) and forward (the penetration). A kevlar vest with 'slash protection' will stop the slash part. However, the knife will continue into the wearers flesh. At that point the knife is sill moving with the edge (slashing). The knife will either cut both kevlar and flesh or will drag the vest your wearing along as it rips through your flesh. I have links to photos at the bottom of the page (they are very graphic).
You are more likely to be stabbed than shot. I know several people in Boston who were stabbed but none who wree shot. Also, if you are shot you have about a 90% chance of surviving. If you are stabbed you have about a 70% chance of survival.
I hand make stab resistant vests that weigh only 3lb. average and cost between $175 and $210. They are completely breathable, flexable, washable (if washed by themselves in your washer), will last just about forever (they don't desintigrate or lose protective properties with age), will take repeated stabbings without excessive damage, and are repairable so you don't have to get a new vest after you are attacked. One of these vests may suite your purpose.
The only problem is that they aren't ballistic and may cause more ballistic damage if you are wearing one and you are shot. However, if probobly aren't going to be shot these are a good option. Otherwise, go with a dual vest even though it is more expensive.
If anyone is interested please email me at [email protected] with your mailing address so I can send you a sample (I send samples to customers I plan to sell to so they can test the material themselves.)
Oh yeah, here are some pictures of a victim of a knife attack. I warn you, these are very bloody and graphic.
photo1:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds1.jpg
photo2:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds2.jpg
photo3:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds3.jpg
You are more likely to be stabbed than shot. I know several people in Boston who were stabbed but none who wree shot. Also, if you are shot you have about a 90% chance of surviving. If you are stabbed you have about a 70% chance of survival.
I hand make stab resistant vests that weigh only 3lb. average and cost between $175 and $210. They are completely breathable, flexable, washable (if washed by themselves in your washer), will last just about forever (they don't desintigrate or lose protective properties with age), will take repeated stabbings without excessive damage, and are repairable so you don't have to get a new vest after you are attacked. One of these vests may suite your purpose.
The only problem is that they aren't ballistic and may cause more ballistic damage if you are wearing one and you are shot. However, if probobly aren't going to be shot these are a good option. Otherwise, go with a dual vest even though it is more expensive.
If anyone is interested please email me at [email protected] with your mailing address so I can send you a sample (I send samples to customers I plan to sell to so they can test the material themselves.)
Oh yeah, here are some pictures of a victim of a knife attack. I warn you, these are very bloody and graphic.
photo1:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds1.jpg
photo2:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds2.jpg
photo3:http://www.blogidaho.biz/knifewounds3.jpg
BsChoy
Member
A knife resistant vest is nice but, shouldn't be thought of as a replacement for training and tactics. If you fight close with a guy with a knife you ARE GOING TO GET CUT! Not necessarily in the chest either. Probably your arms and hands. That said our dept just replaced our SC panels cuz they had Zylon in them and SC recalled them. Zylon decomps alot fatser than kevlar
go_crazy4_free
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 2
Of course a vest isn't replacement
Of course you will get cut, vests, both anti-blade and anti-ballistic, only reduce the danger and cover only the torso and maybe the groin. When the average person takes a shot at another, the shot is usually aimed at the center of mass of the target. That just happens to be where you are protected. A stab vest is the same: if someone tries to stab you they will try to aim for your stomach or chest. The vest will reduce or stop such an attack. However, the person wielding the knife may hit the neck ,arm leg, or some other area where an artery is located, either by accident or on purpose, and seriously injure or kill the wearer. If you are trained you will be much less likely to be killed even though someone is probably going to get seriously hurt. If you wear a vest that only decreases the chance of getting killed.
Of course you will get cut, vests, both anti-blade and anti-ballistic, only reduce the danger and cover only the torso and maybe the groin. When the average person takes a shot at another, the shot is usually aimed at the center of mass of the target. That just happens to be where you are protected. A stab vest is the same: if someone tries to stab you they will try to aim for your stomach or chest. The vest will reduce or stop such an attack. However, the person wielding the knife may hit the neck ,arm leg, or some other area where an artery is located, either by accident or on purpose, and seriously injure or kill the wearer. If you are trained you will be much less likely to be killed even though someone is probably going to get seriously hurt. If you wear a vest that only decreases the chance of getting killed.
Exactly. A wealth of information here.
1) Dont buy used, Kevlar does deteriorate over time. The average lifespan is 5 years.
2) Polymers (spectra, zylon, etc) are very heat sensitive, they loose their integrity when exposed to heat.
3) Any body armor that is NIJ certified and typically made in the USA will stop a bullet just the same.
4) Bulletproof me is a joke. The guy is a hustler and will not stand behind his product (look at his return policy). All of the stuff is used, second rate, or made in china. If you want something new that is low cost and made in America and NIJ certified, check bluedefense.com (http://www.bluedefense.com/body-armor/). Prices are competitive and turnaround time typically a week. All their stuff is made to order so you know you don't have surplus product sitting around for a year or two before heading to market. I did my research for a bout a month before deciding to buy. I spent hours with bulletproof me and felt like I was getting the runaround.
1) Dont buy used, Kevlar does deteriorate over time. The average lifespan is 5 years.
2) Polymers (spectra, zylon, etc) are very heat sensitive, they loose their integrity when exposed to heat.
3) Any body armor that is NIJ certified and typically made in the USA will stop a bullet just the same.
4) Bulletproof me is a joke. The guy is a hustler and will not stand behind his product (look at his return policy). All of the stuff is used, second rate, or made in china. If you want something new that is low cost and made in America and NIJ certified, check bluedefense.com (http://www.bluedefense.com/body-armor/). Prices are competitive and turnaround time typically a week. All their stuff is made to order so you know you don't have surplus product sitting around for a year or two before heading to market. I did my research for a bout a month before deciding to buy. I spent hours with bulletproof me and felt like I was getting the runaround.
- Status