How heavy should a pocket gun be? Is 23 ounces too heavy?

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srv656s

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So how heavy is too heavy for a pocket revolver?

I've narrowed down the field of guns to get to two different ones possibly.

Most probably the S&W 640 (23 ounces):

163690_item.jpg


Or the S&W 642 (15 ounces):

163810_item.jpg


I had a thread a while ago about pocket revolvers, and the hammerless little guys seemed to be the best option for what I was wanting. What I'm not sure of though is how well I could shoot a .357 magnum out of a little teeny gun. I'm a bit worried that the recoil and stuff in such a teeny little package would be so unmanageable that I'd not be able to shoot the gun well enough to save my life if I needed to. I like the 640 because it can shoot the .357 magnum if need be, as well as the .38 special. The 642 is only .38 special and can shoot +P.

Anyways, I'm wondering what the maximum weight of a pocket gun should be? I am a bit worried that if I stuff a heavy revolver in my pants pocket, it'll be so heavy that it'll weigh down my pants and print, or will be uncomfortable to the point I won't want to wear it. My 1911 in my holster is a bit heavy, and the 640 is only a few ounces lighter than it is. I'm leaning towards the 642, and even though it's only a .38 special, I'm thinking it's a decent compromise of weight and power.

Let me know whatcha think...

Shawn
 
Well, it's going to be whatever works for you.

That said, I found the S&W 940 (23 oz, IIRC) to be a bit on the heavy side for pocket carry. The Colt Agent (15 oz) is fine, even with an extra heavy cartridge on board.

I'm not especially thrilled with the .38 spl out of a 2" bbl (I use 158-gr +P cartridges and hope for penetration more than anything else - based on what I've seen in the dozens of murders I've worked on, penetration is what gets the job done), so I don't use the Agent in the pocket holster much (I find myself carrying a Glock 36 in a SmartCarry). It carries very well, though.
 
Why doncha try sacking up a little bag of lead shot (or some such) weighing the 23 oz, put it in your pocket and haul it around for a while. Can check pants sag, leg bump, that lopsided feeling, etc. that way.

It depends a LOT on the type of pants you wear and the kind of pockets they have too. Try different pants.

Also, as to the light ones, remember that they are often carried a lot and shot little. You might practice with the light ones mostly with .38's and only a few famalirization rounds of .357 if they REALLY bother you.

Everything is a trade-off and nobody can answer the questions buy you and trial and error is the only way to REALLY know what is right for YOU.

Good luck. It is a quest!
 
I carry a keltec p3at that weighs 10 oz loaded. Now speaking strictly for me that is perfect. For me 23 oz would be much too heavy, my sig p239 weighs in at 25 oz empty and I have put that in my pocket and I can tell you it is way too heavy for a pocket gun..I can't imagine carrying more than 16-17 oz for pocket carry. Several post I have read on the NAA that weighs in around approx 18 oz is reported by most to be a bit on the heavy side.
The idea to carry something in your pocket that weighs about what you gun will weigh is a good idea. good luck...:)
 
I carry a Glock 26 which happens to weigh 26oz loaded with 10 rounds of 9mm.

I use a K&D pocket holster in my left front pocket and cross draw. The holster is designed to bottom out in your pocket and keeps the pistol grip just above the pocket seam. Out of the different types I've tried this is the most comfortable and going from a standing to sitting position isn't a bother. It holds on firmly and stays in your pocket when you draw. Most importantly, it does not ever print.

As with any pistol holster your going to need a good heavy belt to offset the weight of what your carrying.

I was almost sold on the 640 until I shot it. Reminded me to much of my 686. I couldn't hit anything with it.
Also looked at the P3AT and may get one for inside the waistband carry when I tuck in my shirt.

By the way, I'm 6' 170lbs.
 
My 5-shot .38 special snubby weighs 16 ounces empty. I've tried 18-23 ounce guns and found them too heavy to carry in a front pants pocket. You will feel the weight of a 23 ounce gun, and you will not feel the weight of a 15 ounce gun.
 
I have the 940 which is 23 oz also. For me it is way too heavy for any kind of pocket carry except with a heavy coat in winter. Even then it is noticable.

I have a Model 38 which is 15 oz and it is light enough to comfortably pocket carry.

Its a big difference. The 940 makes my jacket sag or pulls on my pants pocket or just generally clunks around too much.

The reality of carry is that you will probably never need the pistol when you have it with you. So having one that is comfortable enough to carry all the time makes it easy to have one all the time. That way you don't find your self wanting one when you left it at home this time because its just to much of a pain to carry!
 
I have an sp-101 that is in the same general weight area (prolly a tad heavier though). I certainly cannot carry it in a pants pocket at all. It is a dedicated "winter coat pocket" gun.
 
A lot of good advice from carrying lead shot to trying different clothing, but I argee 23 oz can get heavy and bulky. A platoon sgt once told me, " An oz. in the beginning of the morning feels like a lb. at the end of the day." Obviously this was in reference to adding a "luxury" item to one's already heavy load of 60+ lbs., but I've found it good advice when considering long term carry of any item. WTM
 
Sounds like the answer is that it depends on the person...

If you try it, get a good quality leather pocket holster to help spead out the weight and minimize the printing.

I carry my 342 in a pocket holster with no problem -- with everything, gun, ammo and holster -- it still weighs in at less than 1 pound.
 
My RAMI weights about 30 oz loaded and I'll have a holster soon which will add to the weight a bit, but just testing the theory around the house using pants with a belt it wasn't uncomfortable even with two pounds in my pocket. After ten minutes or so I stopped noticing it. How long the pocket lasts might be another question ;)

I know a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable with this much weight so do something to try it out, like the shot in a bag suggestion.
 
For me, nothing beats the 11oz, and very flat P3AT (.380).
We have a 642, but only in slacks with big pockets will it not print.
It's not really doable in jeans for me.

And, the 642 is no fun at all to shoot.
I also like the Kahr PM9 (9mm).
It runs about 18oz., and is easily carried in all but the tightest jeans.

I guess 16-18 ounces is my threshold, but the KelTec .32 and .380 are so light that you forget about them.
 
Airlite

If you are already very interested in a 5-shot, and can deal w/ the size I would say go with the Airlite if you can afford it. It weights only 11.5 ozs unloaded, its a great gun made by Smith-Wesson. Go hammerless of course, and the black one is nice. I used to have an Airlite, I had NO PROBLEMS shooting 129 grain +P hydra shoks, recoil was not bad at all. Its nice to have the .357 capability, though when I shot it, it was just too nasty. Way too much recoil, and I had debris fly back into my face when firing, ouch!
 
You about hit it in POCKET carry weight - 23 Oz Max! I can carry my S&W296 in a pocket and I can't carry my lightweight officers Mod OR my Glock 26 in my pocket.;)
 
I have settled on a 442 (15 oz., .38 Spl.) in a UM "pistol pocket" and that suffices for me. More weight is definitely noticeable whereas the 442 is with me all day long and I don't even feel it.

My subjective feeling is that going futher to either extreme is counterproductive. An airlite is going to kick more than I like and of course will cost me substantially more for the privelege. A heavier gun makes a heavier lump and if in .357 is also going to kick a lot more.

I have shot a good many .357/125s in my day and anyone who wants to shoot them in a J frame can be my guest. I can do it, but don't particularly care for it. I'm not into recreational pain that much anymore.
 
I carried a P32 in my pocket for eight months and literally forgot it was there. i upgunned to an all steel S&W 649 .38, and in Wranglers, it was a bit heavy but not overly so (knew it was there but I didn't walk with a limp or anything) though in Dockers, it was too heavy.

The Airweight series S&Ws are the perfect mix between light for carry and shootability. I don't care for the titanium and scandiums.

The new Speer 135g .38 load is specifically made for snubbies, and it's worth checking out. Designed for a police agency's backup snubbies.

The 640/642 is a good compromise.
 
Sounds like the answer is that it depends on the person...
Click to expand...

Yep, as is so often the case, the answer is...it depends. I can carry a 940 in the pocket of a decently-fitting (i.e., a little loose in the hips so there's enough fabric to avoid printing, but a good fit on the waist so that with the help of a good belt my pants stay up normally :D ). But forget that with many lighter items like shorts, or pants without belt loops.
 
I own both the 642 and the 649. (I also own the 342pd)

As far as pocket carry is concerned, the 640 at 23 oz is too heavy for pocket carry IMHO. Of course I am a bit spoiled, as I only carry the 342pd when I pocket carry (10.5 oz). On occasion if I have to I'll carry the 642 in pocket, but I usually only carry that one IWB.

The 342pd literally seems to vanish. Many times I forget its even there.
If you can swing the money, I highly suggest it for a carry a lot, shoot a little snub nose.

If not I'd suggest the 642.
I would not suggest the 640 for pocket carry,..... unless you have REALLY strong pockets!:D
 
FYI and make up your mind, but the consensus among ballistics experts on the Terminal Effects Board at www.tacticalforums.com is that .357 mag is no more effective than .38 special out of a 2-inch bbl.
 
I'm not necessarily disputing the claim, but what are the bona fides of these "ballistics experts"?

I'm an attorney who has had to come up with expert witnesses for terminal effects of bullets before for a murder case, and the best that several of us attorneys could come up with was Martin Fackler, an ER doc who's been documenting wounds and writing on them for years. He's also been testifying in court on these cases, routinely, for years.

In my experience, true experts on the terminal effects of bullets are few and far between.
 
Great responses, thanks. I think I'm sold on the 642. I think the lighter models would be nice, but I've seen the 642 priced at around $350 on some websites, and that's right in my price range.

Now just gotta save my pennies for a while.

Shawn
 
Erich,

I said "make up your own mind." Not my place to defend those who post research on the site. Check it out if you're so inclined.

One of the, Terminal Effects moderators, Dr. Gary Roberts, trained with Fackler. At least one medical examiner posts there. A number of others claim similar creds, do expert testimony, consult with various governmental agencies, etc. I think it's a worthwhile site. YMMV.

The logic as I recall it on the .357 is that velocity drops so much with the 2 inch, that expansion of JHPs is uncertain. Given that accuracy is the main self defense determinant regardless of caliber, one might be better served by a .38 wadcutter, which is more manageable out of such a LW gun and produces the same-sized hole as an unexpanded .357. If you use the search function on the site, two threads of interest are: .38 Sub Ammo and .38 sp BUG load testing.
 
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