How Hot Can You Push .45ACP/Autorim Out of a Revolver?

[roo_ster]

ChristopherG got me to thinking in this post.

Just how hot can you push .45ACP/.45Autorim out of a revolver?

Colt 1917 or other old Colt large frame
S&W 1917 or other old S&W N frame
S&W 625 in .45ACP/Autorim
S&W 325PD

Any other .45ACP/Autorim revolvers I missed?

I am specificaly excluding Webley Mk VI revos that have been converted.

Can hot .45 Colt (think Ross Seyfreid/Buffalo Bore) numbers be reached?

 

[ChristopherG]

Colt 1917 or other old Colt large frame
S&W 1917 or other old S&W N frame
S&W 625 in .45ACP/Autorim
S&W 325PD
Can hot .45 Colt (think Ross Seyfreid/Buffalo Bore) numbers be reached?

I'll take the first crack at it--

The 1917 models are not as robust, metallurgically, as the modern guns; they are the reason published autorim loads are weak. They can basically only handle standard .45acp levels.

The 625 is built on a modern, heat-treated stainless N-frame, and can handle considerably more. In my own experience, and in my gun, it will push a 255 cast SWC 1100 fps from a 4" barrel with no detectable pressure danger or harm to the gun. It will achieve more traditional .45 Colt loads (850-900 fps w/255 gr. lead bullets) with relative aplomb.

I would not dare to try to reproduce the '.45 colt magnum' loads in this or any other Smith & Wesson, however. Reloading manuals specify that those loads are for Rugers and Freedom Arms and the like, even in an appropriatelty chambered gun.

With Autorim loads carefully worked up to, a 625 in .45 acp is capable of becoming a really viable defensive gun against any non-griz animal in the US, and certainly powerful medicine against any two-legged threat. It should be noted that others have done much the same thing--uploading 625's--using .45 Super brass. I prefer to use the AR because I don't like to think about someone, somehow, putting one of my AR loads in their 1911 Also, they look neat--some gunwriter compared it to a 'short, fat guy with big feet'.

 

[mjolnir]

Take any 1917/25/625/325.

Measure the thickness of the cylinder at the locking bolt notch.

Use that information + common sense + normal prudence to determine what is reasonable.

P.S. If you decide to load way above SAAMI levels for the .45 ACP/AR in a S&W 1917/25/625/325, please shoot somewhere alone, but with a cellphone pre-programmed with 911 and a pencil or pen to activate the talk button, in the event no fingers remain to dial with.

 

[Gordon]

Yup measure the locking bolt thickness!!!Thats what I like the simple unvarnished truth!

 

[bakert]

.45 Auto Rim to hot .45 Colt velocities. Not in a revolver!! Although they could be stepped up from factory loads quite a bit.

 

[Moonclip]

I heard of people shooting 45super out of a S&W 625 but I am somewhat leery of doing so even though the same frame size gun comes in 44magnum.

 

[Tom C.]

I have a 30 year old Model 25-2. The cylinder is 1.700” in diameter. The cylinder wall thickness is .060”. I have a brand new 625-8JM that I got last week. The cylinder is 1.711” in diameter and the wall thickness is .069”. My .45 Blackhawks are 1.730” in diameter and .080” wall. My .45 Redhawk is 1.780” and .105”. I see no need to hot rod my .45 ACP/AR revolvers. I like my S&W .45 just as they are. I have them dialed in the way I want them and like them that way. If I wanted to hotrod the .45 AR, I would shave my .45 ACP Blackhawk to allow it to take .45 AR brass. I will hotrod my .45 Colt to standard +P loading, but if I can’t get it done with that, then I will break out my .500 S&W.

 

[grendelbane]

If you want to load some thing warm for your 25/625/325, (not 1917, they should lead a life of gentle semi-retirement), look at Alliant's website for data for the .45 ACP and +p loads with Power Pistol.

Even if you throw caution to the winds, I don't think that you will be able to match the hot .45 Colt loads. However, warm loads are possible, and at pressures that are still reasonable. Sometimes I think Power Pistol has some magic dust mixed in with it.

This is not too bad. Don't forget, not even the S&W .45 Colts will handle the hot loads. Warm loads, yes, but not the hot ones.

 

[Crosshair]

What about Ruger guns? I plan on getting a 45 ACP cylinder fitted once I actualy pick it up.

 

[ChristopherG]

Crosshair, I expect you could run pretty hot loads in the 45 acp cylinder of a Ruger--but I'm not sure why you would. I mean, it's a .45 Colt, right? If you want hot loads, there's bunches of published data and manufactured mega-loads for .45 colt that will go well beyond anything you could get out of a little acp case.

The point of doing hot Autorim loads, I assume, is to expand the range of capabilities of a 45 acp chambered gun when you don't have a 45 colt (or 500 mag) to default to. And the Autorim loads can do that, and have been quite admirably doing it for many shooters over scores of years, vague apocalyptic warnings notwithstanding

 

[ramptester]

Don't forget the dan wesson 7460, which is a versatile revolver chambered in 45 ACP and +, auto rim, 45 super, 460 rowland, and 45 winchester magnum. It handles them all with very minimal recoil. Beautiful gun as well.

 

[Crosshair]

Yea, I kind of figured that there would be no point to a hot 45 ACP in a 45 colt gun. Reason I am asking is that I have a ton of 45 ACP range brass I have picked up and no 45 Colt brass (yet).

 

[Pappy John]

Any other .45ACP/Autorim revolvers I missed?

S&W just came out with a new version of the Model 22. I just picked this one up last weekend at the Harrisburg gun show.

 

[carebear]

I have 14 or 15 pieces of autorim brass laying around, is that enough to justify a new revolver?

 

[JRLaws]

The guys over at Clark Custom Guns do a .460 Rowland Conversion for the S&W 25/625 and Ruger Blackhawk in .45 acp. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/revserv.htm

The 460 does 1350 fps with a 230 grain bullet and 1550 fps with a 185 grain jhp! http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

It's my understanding that the S&W converted guns will shoot the .45 acp using moon clips. This is a handy lil' package I've been considering, plese check with Clark Custom for specific information.

JRLaws.

 

[Atticus]

A newer S&W 625 cylinder can be sent to Clark custom for conversion to .460Rowland. It costs about $100 and is money well spent. If you handload, you can can load the .460 brass up or down as you please. If not, you can use factory loaded .45 cap, .45 AR, .45 super, or .460 Rowland. Problem solved.

 

[ThreadKiller]

Wind 'er up! You can always get new hands.

 

[roo_ster]

I just saw one of those bbl/slide/stock deals that turn a 1911 frame into a carbine. This one was chambered in .460 Roland.

What was interesting, was they had some .460 cartridges. The case is a smidgen* longer, but the OAL looks nearly the same*.

I don't intend onhot-rodding my S&W 1917, though I don't think I'd worry too much about hotter loads in a newer 625.




* Yeah, not overly precise/technical, but i had left my vernier calipers at home.

 

[Atticus]

What was interesting, was they had some .460 cartridges. The case is a smidgen* longer, but the OAL looks nearly the same*.

The OAL is the same. The cylinder is bored just a tad to properly headspace the longer case. You do have to use moonclips to properly headspace .45 acp after the conversion. If you do hand load, you can load the Rowland cases with pussycat range loads or decent hunting loads, just as you might do for a .357/.38.

 

[Majic]

Reason I am asking is that I have a ton of 45 ACP range brass I have picked up and no 45 Colt brass (yet).

Being range brass you have no idea of how many or how hot the previous loadings were. When you start pushing the envelop you had best know the condition of your brass.

 

[Crosshair]

Being range brass you have no idea of how many or how hot the previous loadings were. When you start pushing the envelop you had best know the condition of your brass.

It is once fired brass. I picked it up when the police where doing their training out at the range. I have no idea who uses a 45, but it is nice brass. Got a ton of 40 S&W as well.

 

[mjolnir]

Yup measure the locking bolt thickness!!!Thats what I like the simple unvarnished truth!

Gordon, to clarify:

Measure the thickness OF THE CYLINDER at the locking bolt NOTCH. Do not measure the locking bolt, that's irrelevant.

* * * * * * *

Replacing the cylinder is the best option if you must hot rod one of these.

 

[ChristopherG]

mjolnir,

I think what Gordon meant to say is not that the dimension you indicate is unclear, but rather that its implications are not as obvious as you suggest. Translating whatever dimension that is (and I have a good idea of what it is on my 625-3, at least) into a max load for the gun is nothing like a function of 'common sense'.

Many people have loaded the 45ar to pressures significantly above the standard for 45acp for many years. Clark custom guns offers a conversion to .460 Rowland on these guns--a conversion that does not include changing the cylinder or modifying the weak spot you indicate. Suggesting as a blanket statement that uploading the .45acp or ar for this gun is so stupid as to betray 'common sense' ignores the experience and the professional judgment of many experienced handloaders and gunsmiths; drawing horror stories of handlessness borders on histrionics. No doubt the intention is good; but some simple research reveals that there are real, tested and verified answers to jfruser's question.

 

[SteelEye]

A few years ago I experimented with shooting hot 45 loads from my 4" 625. I managed to get up to 1500 fps with 185gr bullets. Don't remember the powders but I recall using PowerPistol, Unique, 2400 and a few others.

The rounds shot perfectly flat up to 100 yards. Wasn't near a 200 yard range at the time to try that out. I used a mix of brass including found range brass and new Starline Autorim brass.

As I was nearing 44 mag loads I decided what I really wanted to do was shoot a 44 mag so I bought an FA83.

If you do a diligent search on the 1911.com forums you will find an abundance of threads with this same information.

The short answer: Yes, you can push 45 loads in a revolver. At no time did I see any signs of over pressure or top strap burning. The 625 is a real brute. Thing is, if you want to shoot really hot loads, get a really hot gun that shoots a really hot round, say the 460XVR.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.



S&W 25-2 45 acp revolver


I tried hot loads and 300 gr lead bullets and 45acp brass, but it was impossible for me to get non roll crimp crimps to hang on the lead with all that recoil.


45 auto rim brass
I was Lee factory crimping at 1.4" OAL, with 230 gr. FMJ MOntana Gold,
and WLP primers.

worked up to

24 gr H110, kicks like a mule.