How long before this comes here?
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Ryder
Member
Reminds me of this private toll road (subscription) I entered by accident once. All the exits had cameras to grab your plate number if you exited without a transponder. My Canadian buds told me to expect threatening letters from the government. As I suspected I was going a wee bit too fast for their flash to capture my plate though. I did see the pavement light up behind me. Never got a letter 
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Maybe it'll happen here and maybe it won't, but don't kid yourself. "They" used to have those freedoms, too. "They" lost them.
1 old 0311
member
G.M.'s On Star has been doing this for years.
Kevin
Kevin
Britain will monitor all vehicles
Is this for real? Britain will be first country to monitor every car journey
From 2006 Britain will be the first country where every journey by every car will be monitored
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 22 December 2005
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.
Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.
The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.
By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.
Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.
Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.
But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.
The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.
In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.
The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.
More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.
Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.
"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).
"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.
According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.
"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.
"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.
Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.
"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.
Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.
The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.
By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.
Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.
Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.
But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.
The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.
In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.
The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.
More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.
Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.
"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).
"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.
According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.
"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.
"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.
Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.
"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."
Is this for real? Britain will be first country to monitor every car journey
From 2006 Britain will be the first country where every journey by every car will be monitored
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 22 December 2005
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.
Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.
The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.
By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.
Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.
Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.
But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.
The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.
In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.
The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.
More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.
Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.
"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).
"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.
According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.
"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.
"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.
Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.
"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.
Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.
The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.
By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.
Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.
Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.
But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.
The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.
In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.
The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.
More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.
Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.
"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).
"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.
According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.
"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.
"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.
Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.
"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
No, the British newspaper by that name, www.independent.co.uk.
Here is the link to the story:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
Here's another related story:
Surveillance U.K.- Why This Revolution is Only the Start
It's hard to believe how subjective the Brits appear to have become. No guns, subjecting themselves to whatever their country imposes upon them. It's even harder to believe that most of us here in America have come from this same stock. It's hard to believe that Americans of this stock willingly relinquish their liberties so easily as well.
CAnnoneer
Member
Let's face it - the Brits are an emasculated society that has been leaking testosterone since the 1600s. Anyone unwilling to bend a knee (or both) either have left for the colonies by their own volition, or have been shipped out as indentured servants / convicts. Whatever you are left with is mostly sheeple.
Preacherman
Member
Duplicate threads merged.
Master Blaster
Member
How long will it be before the bliss ninnies control the government here?
Could be by the next election
Could be by the next election
CAnnoneer
Member
torpid said:
Kraft durch Freude...
+1 beerslurpy
Tyrrany as well as modern LE are big business. Ever wonder why the laws get more and more convoluted and thus spring more leaks and loopholes?
Corruption is price of doing business for any culture or government. Problem is when that price becomes too high for the structure to carry. Then the structure crumbles. Rome is a very good model to study. The parallels are both insightful and frightening.
English_Nobility
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2
What you people NEED to do, is REMEMBER who your allies are, and WHO your so called, BEST FRIENDS, actually are, and get your own house in order before you go critiquing what is supposed to be your closest allied nation.
Don't you agree?
I mean by all rights we could shoot right back at you with regards to that patriot act of yours, and your FBI's right to wire tap any soul they damn well please via the presidents orders without the request even being seen by a judge.
Which I might add can never happen in England.
What gets me the most in stuff like this, is you people contradict yourselves day in and day out and don't even realise it.
One minute we are your bestest friends, and staunch allies, and people to be trusted blah blah blah etc, and the next we are something straight out of 1984 according to you guys.
A few months ago it was us the UK who according to you guys, were harbouring terrorist sympathisers etc, the month before that it's that we are a socialist ????-hole etc... but its all WAY DIFFERENT when you guys need a good solid friend to help you fight a war or harbour your missiles so so they can reach the targets you want them to.
You guys make the ????tiest -best friends- in the history of close relationships.
Sort your own House out 1st pls before you go preaching to others.
Rant over-with lol
English_Nobility.
Don't you agree?
I mean by all rights we could shoot right back at you with regards to that patriot act of yours, and your FBI's right to wire tap any soul they damn well please via the presidents orders without the request even being seen by a judge.
Which I might add can never happen in England.
What gets me the most in stuff like this, is you people contradict yourselves day in and day out and don't even realise it.
One minute we are your bestest friends, and staunch allies, and people to be trusted blah blah blah etc, and the next we are something straight out of 1984 according to you guys.
A few months ago it was us the UK who according to you guys, were harbouring terrorist sympathisers etc, the month before that it's that we are a socialist ????-hole etc... but its all WAY DIFFERENT when you guys need a good solid friend to help you fight a war or harbour your missiles so so they can reach the targets you want them to.
You guys make the ????tiest -best friends- in the history of close relationships.
Sort your own House out 1st pls before you go preaching to others.
Rant over-with lol
English_Nobility.
biere
Member
My rant about that country over the water.
You already gave up your centerfire rifles did you not? Do you keep them by your bedside with your centerfire handgun? Is this common in your country?
I will take stupid patriot act stuff that is not getting approved very well lately over the loss of guns and the current action of tracking vehicles.
I lost a lot of respect when I read about some poor farmer who shot some theives with his shotgun and he got a worse punishment than the theives since he used a gun to shoot them on his property.
All countries have serious issues. I won't say this one is doing well, but I will take having a safe full of guns today rather than what you have today.
You already gave up your centerfire rifles did you not? Do you keep them by your bedside with your centerfire handgun? Is this common in your country?
I will take stupid patriot act stuff that is not getting approved very well lately over the loss of guns and the current action of tracking vehicles.
I lost a lot of respect when I read about some poor farmer who shot some theives with his shotgun and he got a worse punishment than the theives since he used a gun to shoot them on his property.
All countries have serious issues. I won't say this one is doing well, but I will take having a safe full of guns today rather than what you have today.
Shadowpballer
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2005
- Messages
- 15
when that happens in the states im gona press this big red button i have and blow up the entire world, since at that point it will be a lost cause
Waitone
Member
English_Nobility, welcome to THR. Your input is encouraged. You've evidently been lurking for a while. I base my comments on you understanding of a few of the more controversal threads in the recent past.
I would encourage you to not draw conclusions about the Patriot Act based on the comment either on this forum or what we call the main stream media. Never have I seen such inane logic in evaluating public controversy. Fact of the matter is the reason Patriot Act has not been reapproved is because of an intense battle over what the bill actually says and it impact on civil liberties. I used to be proud of the circumspect anaylsis but lately a number of the members have gone over the edge in evaluating developing legislation. Suffice it to say a lot of propaganda is being batter about and called facts. Time will clear up what is at stake here. Members of the forum do not have a good handle on the reality of the legislation.
I would encourage you to not draw conclusions about the Patriot Act based on the comment either on this forum or what we call the main stream media. Never have I seen such inane logic in evaluating public controversy. Fact of the matter is the reason Patriot Act has not been reapproved is because of an intense battle over what the bill actually says and it impact on civil liberties. I used to be proud of the circumspect anaylsis but lately a number of the members have gone over the edge in evaluating developing legislation. Suffice it to say a lot of propaganda is being batter about and called facts. Time will clear up what is at stake here. Members of the forum do not have a good handle on the reality of the legislation.
Fidel Castro
member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2005
- Messages
- 32
Welcome English people
I had always thought that ALL of the patriot act would sunset after things had calmed down after the fear hysteria of 911 had passed. The Congressmen couldn't have fully understood the implications with only 2 weeks to approve this. As someone else noted, how the hay did they come up with this massive legislation so quickly? Speculations say it was all ready written prior to 911 and was just waiting for the right opportunity. Then 911, rush legislation through, keep it secret, tell the sheeple they are safe now because of it not in spite of it. Keep it secret, spy on your own people, keep it secret. Keep spreading fear, keep the weak, hysterical. Keep it secret.
'Sneak and peak', government agents can come into your home and never tell anyone they were there. That is absolutely abusive. A ripe opportunity for agents to plant evidence or the subjects attorney to raise the issue to a jury. If they are even allowed a jury these dark days. It is not scheduled to sunset like the other unconstitutional abuses either. My senator is aware and is going to raise this issue. My contribution to this topic, I have installed video cameras on recorders on motion detectors in my home and turn it on when I leave. I am not a criminal or a terrorist and do not expect any government agents to 'sneak and peak' but how will anyone ever know? Answer that? It's apparently legal under this crap law.
English_Nobility, welcome to the forum. Your viewpoint is wanted. Oh, and don't mind my username, an attempt at a little satirical humor.
I agree! I personally think the Brits are some of the most honorable, well mannered people of this world.English_Nobility said:
Why couldn't it happen in England? Why did the London bombings go down?
I had always thought that ALL of the patriot act would sunset after things had calmed down after the fear hysteria of 911 had passed. The Congressmen couldn't have fully understood the implications with only 2 weeks to approve this. As someone else noted, how the hay did they come up with this massive legislation so quickly? Speculations say it was all ready written prior to 911 and was just waiting for the right opportunity. Then 911, rush legislation through, keep it secret, tell the sheeple they are safe now because of it not in spite of it. Keep it secret, spy on your own people, keep it secret. Keep spreading fear, keep the weak, hysterical. Keep it secret.
'Sneak and peak', government agents can come into your home and never tell anyone they were there. That is absolutely abusive. A ripe opportunity for agents to plant evidence or the subjects attorney to raise the issue to a jury. If they are even allowed a jury these dark days. It is not scheduled to sunset like the other unconstitutional abuses either. My senator is aware and is going to raise this issue. My contribution to this topic, I have installed video cameras on recorders on motion detectors in my home and turn it on when I leave. I am not a criminal or a terrorist and do not expect any government agents to 'sneak and peak' but how will anyone ever know? Answer that? It's apparently legal under this crap law.
That's right!! Why didn't the patriot act stop the London bombings, the Madrid train bombings? You are Our allies we share intell with. Why? Because nothing will ever stop a criminal that is intent on murder. At least your people understand that. I LOVED your "I am NOT scared" campaign. That is what must be done, of course along with detection and capture without turning into a police state. Before the patriot act our LE did a fine job but their guard was lower. Scotland Yard is a great LE org. All of them can be without violating civil rights with the beast called the patriot act.
English_Nobility, welcome to the forum. Your viewpoint is wanted. Oh, and don't mind my username, an attempt at a little satirical humor.
Fidel Castro
member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2005
- Messages
- 32
Big Brother is watching you
:banghead:
:banghead:
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
English_Nobility,
Welcome to THR!
I don't agree with the Brit-bashing above. I work with a couple of British expatriates, and like all Brits I have ever met, they are wonderful people and just as self-reliant as Americans I've met. I am a great admirer of British culture (you'll probably recognize my screen name from British literature, if you think about it a minute), my son is named after a character in Tennyson, I listen to the BBC on a regular basis (though stories on cricket matches are still beyond my comprehension), and was listening to a single by Harriet Wheeler and the Sundays just last night.
However, I do think your government is way, way out of control at the moment, however, far worse than ours and bordering on the positively Orwellian.
Our so-called "Patriot Act" is plenty worrisome, but it's only a few steps down the long road that the United Surveillance Kingdom has already traveled. The furor over the act is over a few provisions that would grant our own government a small subset of the powers that your government has already granted itself.
Our government is still not allowed to track my movements without a warrant. My wife and I own multiple handguns and self-loading rifles, and can load them and store them as we see fit. My wife owns an ex-Soviet-military Samozaryadniy Karabin Simonova, I own a Romanian Kalashnikov (not full-auto, though), and our government isn't allowed to know what we own. I am licensed to carry the handgun of my choice on my person at my discretion, a privilege your own government doesn't even grant your average police officer (though your political elites are undoubtedly surrounded with guns...)
Welcome to THR!
I don't agree with the Brit-bashing above. I work with a couple of British expatriates, and like all Brits I have ever met, they are wonderful people and just as self-reliant as Americans I've met. I am a great admirer of British culture (you'll probably recognize my screen name from British literature, if you think about it a minute), my son is named after a character in Tennyson, I listen to the BBC on a regular basis (though stories on cricket matches are still beyond my comprehension), and was listening to a single by Harriet Wheeler and the Sundays just last night.
However, I do think your government is way, way out of control at the moment, however, far worse than ours and bordering on the positively Orwellian.
Our so-called "Patriot Act" is plenty worrisome, but it's only a few steps down the long road that the United Surveillance Kingdom has already traveled. The furor over the act is over a few provisions that would grant our own government a small subset of the powers that your government has already granted itself.
Our government is still not allowed to track my movements without a warrant. My wife and I own multiple handguns and self-loading rifles, and can load them and store them as we see fit. My wife owns an ex-Soviet-military Samozaryadniy Karabin Simonova, I own a Romanian Kalashnikov (not full-auto, though), and our government isn't allowed to know what we own. I am licensed to carry the handgun of my choice on my person at my discretion, a privilege your own government doesn't even grant your average police officer (though your political elites are undoubtedly surrounded with guns...)
DRZinn
Member
AirForceShooter
Member
The LEO's will love it
AFS
AFS
Radagast
Member
Guys, development of a similar system is already underway in the USA.
http://news.com.com/E-tracking,+coming+to+a+DMV+near+you/2010-1071_3-5980979.html
Trust federal bureaucrats to take a good idea and transform it into a frightening proposal to track Americans wherever they drive.
The U.S. Department of Transportation has been handing millions of dollars to state governments for GPS-tracking pilot projects designed to track vehicles wherever they go. So far, Washington state and Oregon have received fat federal checks to figure out how to levy these "mileage-based road user fees."
&
he problem, though, is that these "road user fee" systems are being designed and built in a way that strips drivers of their privacy and invites constant surveillance by police, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.
Zero privacy protections
Details of the tracking systems vary. But the general idea is that a small GPS device, which knows its location by receiving satellite signals, is placed inside the vehicle.
Some GPS trackers constantly communicate their location back to the state DMV, while others record the location information for later retrieval. (In the Oregon pilot project, it's beamed out wirelessly when the driver pulls into a gas station.)
The problem, though, is that no privacy protections exist. No restrictions prevent police from continually monitoring, without a court order, the whereabouts of every vehicle on the road.
No rule prohibits that massive database of GPS trails from being subpoenaed by curious divorce attorneys, or handed to insurance companies that might raise rates for someone who spent too much time at a neighborhood bar. No policy bans police from automatically sending out speeding tickets based on what the GPS data say.
The Fourth Amendment provides no protection. The U.S. Supreme Court said in two cases, U.S. v. Knotts and U.S. v. Karo, that Americans have no reasonable expectation of privacy when they're driving on a public street.
The PR offensive
Even more shocking are additional ideas that bureaucrats are hatching. A report prepared by a Transportation Department-funded program in Washington state says the GPS bugs must be made "tamper proof" and the vehicle should be disabled if the bugs are disconnected.
"This can be achieved by building in connections to the vehicle ignition circuit so that failure to receive a moving GPS signal after some default period of vehicle operation indicates attempts to defeat the GPS antenna," the report says.
Welcome to 1984.
http://news.com.com/E-tracking,+coming+to+a+DMV+near+you/2010-1071_3-5980979.html
Trust federal bureaucrats to take a good idea and transform it into a frightening proposal to track Americans wherever they drive.
The U.S. Department of Transportation has been handing millions of dollars to state governments for GPS-tracking pilot projects designed to track vehicles wherever they go. So far, Washington state and Oregon have received fat federal checks to figure out how to levy these "mileage-based road user fees."
&
he problem, though, is that these "road user fee" systems are being designed and built in a way that strips drivers of their privacy and invites constant surveillance by police, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.
Zero privacy protections
Details of the tracking systems vary. But the general idea is that a small GPS device, which knows its location by receiving satellite signals, is placed inside the vehicle.
Some GPS trackers constantly communicate their location back to the state DMV, while others record the location information for later retrieval. (In the Oregon pilot project, it's beamed out wirelessly when the driver pulls into a gas station.)
The problem, though, is that no privacy protections exist. No restrictions prevent police from continually monitoring, without a court order, the whereabouts of every vehicle on the road.
No rule prohibits that massive database of GPS trails from being subpoenaed by curious divorce attorneys, or handed to insurance companies that might raise rates for someone who spent too much time at a neighborhood bar. No policy bans police from automatically sending out speeding tickets based on what the GPS data say.
The Fourth Amendment provides no protection. The U.S. Supreme Court said in two cases, U.S. v. Knotts and U.S. v. Karo, that Americans have no reasonable expectation of privacy when they're driving on a public street.
The PR offensive
Even more shocking are additional ideas that bureaucrats are hatching. A report prepared by a Transportation Department-funded program in Washington state says the GPS bugs must be made "tamper proof" and the vehicle should be disabled if the bugs are disconnected.
"This can be achieved by building in connections to the vehicle ignition circuit so that failure to receive a moving GPS signal after some default period of vehicle operation indicates attempts to defeat the GPS antenna," the report says.
Welcome to 1984.
The_Antibubba
Member
English Nobility, don't take this the wrong way, but for a lot of us here, England is our canary in a coal mine. It may seem as though we are disgusted by your weakness, but (all Redcoat and King George III jokes aside ) it's fear-fear that if it can happen to you, now, it can happen to us, later.
) it's fear-fear that if it can happen to you, now, it can happen to us, later.- Status