How many gun Co's falselly advertise that they are used by special ops

[gym]

If half the guns that I have looked at the past few months, were used by Seals or Special operations units, we must have a lot of special operations units.
It's a ridiculous sales pitch for the average guy to think he is a special forces operator because he bought a gun that said that it's carried by the Navy Seals. But how can so many get away with it. I realize that some units allow their guys to carry whatever they want "within limits" , but it seems that lately this sales pitch is being used a little too much? Sig, Springfield, and H&K, are probably the worse offenders of using the hype, but many others also do it.
Glock , and S&W, just seem to be more honest about the way they describe that their guns are used by many military and police agency's, but some of these Ads, are misleading at best.
Which guns and what calibers are actually used by our troops, I saw that new Marine pistol for 2 grand, but what about the Sigs and H&K's?

 

[Potatohead]

Which guns and what calibers are actually used by our troops,

I'm eager to see the answers to this question.

 

[2wheels]

Navy SEALS do or did use the P226, I'm not sure if they still use them because I don't pay much attention to that kinda stuff. That's the reason for the P226 "Navy" version that Sig peddles to us.

The HK MK23 was also designed specifically for SOCOM and saw at least some service. I'm also not sure if it's still used, although I have heard it was never really popular.

I've also heard (but haven't confirmed) that HK45Cs with threaded barrels are in use by our SF.

So there's some truth to Sig and HK bragging that they get used by special forces, hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will show up and shine more light on the subject.

 

[Quiet]

I've seen the following used by US SOCOM...
Beretta Model 92FS (M-9)
Glock 17
Glock 19
Glock 22
H&K Mark 23 (Mk 23 Mod 0)
H&K HK-45CT (Mk 24 Mod 0)
SIG P-226 Navy (Mk 25 Mod 0)
SIG P-228 (M-11)

 

[herkyguy]

just because they purchase it doesn't mean they will use it. There is a huge difference between buying a few and hitting the road with them. those folks have a lot of leeway in what they buy.

i suspect manufacturers stretch the truth when they see a contract for a few of their weapons.

for example, they bought the SCAR-16 and 17, but it had mixed results with testing. not sure where it went from there.

 

[RX-79G]

Add to this that at least Navy and Marine personnel can often carry personally owned weapons. During the first Gulf War it was actually encouraged because there was a shortage of handguns for aircrews.

Anytime a small command buys a handful of whatever pistol it becomes a "military purchase". That doesn't mean the gun went through any sort of official T&E, just that it got purchased.

SEALs bought and used stainless S&W revolvers for water use. Where is that "as used by" ad?

 

[Quiet]

for example, they bought the SCAR-16 and 17, but it had mixed results with testing. not sure where it went from there.

FN SCAR-L (Mk 16 Mod 0) are still in inventory and US NSW has an active purchase order for more of them. But, they are hardly used (Navy & Air Force play with them on occasion).

FN SCAR-H (Mk 17 Mod 0) and SCAR-H SSR (Mk 20 Mod 0) are actively deployed by all elements within US SOCOM.

 

[627PCFan]

"SEALs bought and used stainless S&W revolvers for water use. Where is that "as used by" ad?"

Actually not the first time I heard this either...

 

[royal barnes]

If two guys on Seal Team Number ? were issued or carried a particular firearm would that company's advertising then be false? Who cares one way or the other?

 

[RX-79G]

It isn't bad to have a little truth in advertising. SOCOM adopting the MK 23 is one thing, two guys bringing their toys to work is another.

But, in the end, it is all just consumer nonsense. How about a Taurus?

 

[jmr40]

There are SEALS, then there are the elite SEAL teams. Once you get to the elite level you carry any thing you want. If it isn't a production item you can have it customized to your specs by Navy gunsmiths. Read the book "No Easy Day" written by one of the team members that took out OBL. Each team member has his own storage room filled with an assortment of weapons and equipment. They pick and choose depending on the mission. If one SEAL team member chose your gun, even if heavily modified, for just one mission then I guess it is fair game to say it was used by the SEALS.

They also train with just about everything ever made so they will be familiar with whatever they pick. I guess that would count too.

 

[Ignition Override]

jmr40:
But are the SEAL teams' various rifles or handguns required to use the same types of ammo?

 

[rbernie]

"SEALs bought and used stainless S&W revolvers for water use. Where is that "as used by" ad?"

AFAIK, SOCOM in fact purchased/issued/made available S&W 686s during the runup to GWII. Once we were well underway with the GWOT and the flood of OCO funding into SOCOM was well established, they faded from favor as better solutions presented themselves.

 

[Sam Cade]

Add to this that at least Navy and Marine personnel can often carry personally owned weapons.

Have any non-anecdotal examples of this?

 

[RX-79G]

I was in one service and trained with the other. What sort of non-anecdote are you looking for? I don't know if there is a reg for this, just that there isn't one against it.

You can go to a bar in Pensacola that had the walls covered with Gulf War photos that back up my statement.

 

[Sam Cade]

I don't know if there is a reg for this, just that there isn't one against it.

It's against CENTCOM General Order 1.

 

[RX-79G]

Must have changed since I was in. Do you have a working link?

 

[Sam Cade]

Whoops.. My link broke.


I've just attached the PDF to 1C.

 

[RX-79G]

May 2013.

 

[Sam Cade]

May 2013.

GO-1, ca.1990

2. Prohibited Activities:

a. Purchase, possession. use or sale of privately owned firearm, ammunition, explosives, or the introduction of these items into the USCENTCOM AOR.

 

[RX-79G]

I don't know what to tell you. It was an officially ignored order, or it was specifically rescinded during the first Gulf War. But I also new Marines in the late '90s that flew with personal firearms.

I don't care either way, I just know that it did go on all the time, and no one was policing it. That sort of blind eye will certainly have the effect I mentioned on making it appear that gun X is somehow acceptable for military use.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Well, my current favorite is the Liberty Ammunition USM4 Ultra Defense Ammo.

Here's a post I made on another string about exactly this ammo, in 9mm:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8929527&postcount=21

The link to their website, along with quotes from it, are included in my posting.

A heaping pile of bovine fertilizer, in my opinion.

 

[moxie]

AFAIK, AF PJs use the plain M-9.

 

[savanahsdad]

the MP's at the gate in San Diageo Ca. at the MCRD all carried 1911 Colts ,

So much for only the elite guys getting the 1911

 

[Slamfire]

I had a bud at work whose son when into Special Ops in 2012 or 2013. These small units get to play with anything they want. They do develop preferences. Son liked the M1911, the big round killed better and he claimed the polymer pistols broke in two when used as a club. An all steel M1911 was just the ticket on hesitant or scheming terrorists.

But, if you are regular Army, National Guard, Reserves, you get a M9 pistol. As much as some prefer other types I have encountered a number of guys who came back, they liked their M9's, and bought one after mustering out of the service.