I have always disliked the H&K guns because of their high price and hard to get parts. We use Glocks at my work but our sub-guns are H&K. No problems that I know of. I took the plunge and bought a new H&K P30 with the LEM trigger. I only did it because a major H&K dealer had a good sale on many of their models. I like the hammer-fired action and the LEM trigger . I haven't shot it yet. The gun seems well made from what I see. The only 2 things I dont like are the ambidextrous slide-stop levers and the plastic recoil-buffer on the guide rod. I have seen other people complain how the right side slide-stop lever gets loose. I don't like plastic buffers in the action of my guns. But , I don't think I'd ever get one this cheap again. Plus there is a program for police officers to get $150 in merchandise from their web store so I can get a few magazine from there since their magazine are as high as a kite ! I'm mainly a Glock , Beretta , and CZ shooter so this is new territory for me. Anyways , tell me how you H&K guys like yours and what to watch out for.
H&K Owners : tell me about the P30 with LEM
- Thread starter tercel89
- Start date
JR24
Member
Don’t have a P30 but my P2000 is LEM and I don’t really like it. Slow fire or dry fire it’s fine but when I start shooting drills the pull throws me off on the 2nd or 3rd shots, especially if I’ve been shooting Glocks a lot.
So, perhaps be prepared to practice to get it down.
Holstering with a thumb on the hammer is really nice though, I like that.
So, perhaps be prepared to practice to get it down.
Holstering with a thumb on the hammer is really nice though, I like that.
I have a P30SK-V3 and a P30SK-LEM.
I’m a died in the wool SA/DA shooter but bought the LEM gun to try and at the suggestion of other H&K owners.
Safety wise, I’m much more comfortable shooting the LEM trigger over a typical striker fired gun.
Unlike a SA/DA trigger, the LEM trigger is the same pull for every shot.
I’m a died in the wool SA/DA shooter but bought the LEM gun to try and at the suggestion of other H&K owners.
Safety wise, I’m much more comfortable shooting the LEM trigger over a typical striker fired gun.
Unlike a SA/DA trigger, the LEM trigger is the same pull for every shot.
I load a round then lower the hammer by means of the trigger bringing it back to the regular double action .
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sigarms228
Member
Not if it is loaded with live rounds. It would only be DA if a round did not go off and then it would be heavy DA for second strike capability.
I load a round in the chamber and then I lower the hammer manually and then my first trigger pull is the heavy DA just like a Beretta 92 or CZ 75. To make it simpler for you or others , I load a round in the chamber and then I use the hammer and trigger to decompress the hammer spring.
To get things clarified, H&K offers two different trigger systems on many of the pistol lines.
First is the -V3 trigger which is the same as any other DA/SA trigger system.
The other is the -V1 trigger which is the LEM trigger. LEM stands for Law Enforcement Modification and H&K describes it as a light DA only trigger system. H&K says the LEM trigger has about a 5.4 pound trigger pull all the time except for second strike abilities.
Here is what H&K says about it.
https://hk-usa.com/hk-models/p30sk/
First is the -V3 trigger which is the same as any other DA/SA trigger system.
The other is the -V1 trigger which is the LEM trigger. LEM stands for Law Enforcement Modification and H&K describes it as a light DA only trigger system. H&K says the LEM trigger has about a 5.4 pound trigger pull all the time except for second strike abilities.
Here is what H&K says about it.
https://hk-usa.com/hk-models/p30sk/
JR24
Member
That’s a traditional DA/SA. LEM doesn’t fully cock the hammer, and it rides back down so you can’t manually lower it.
It does have a DA pull, but only if the slide hasn’t been worked and the hammer pre tensioned, either unloaded or a dud round.
Heavy and long, it’s actually my favorite dry fire trigger.
JR24
Member
Really thinking I need a DA/SA P2000sk for carry
No , it's an LEM and says "V1" on the label. If you get a hold of an LEM , try and do what I said step by step. Rack the slide , which loads a cartridge into the chamber and it cocks the hammer. The hammer then goes forward. Then manually pull the hammer back and pull the trigger , while letting the hammer go forerard. Now the hammer is forward without being cocked. It's hard to do with the hammer being "bobbed" but it works.
JR24
Member
Ah, I see what you are saying now.
Seems terribly unnecessary and adds a ton of potential danger to do it that way, but I guess that’s possible.
Yes, I do have a LEM, BTW. Just never thought to do that.
Man I'm glad you understand me now because I was wondering if I was describing it correctly or not LOL .
I now understand as well.
But I also feel it is a dangerous practice.
I used to decock a variety of guns in the manner of holding the hammer, the release the trigger and then lower the hammer.
I never had an issue in 30 some years of shooting.
Great until one day I was practicing with my Beretta 96. The hammer got away from me and the gun fired. Fortunately, I was at my home range and the gun was pointed in a safe direction towards the ground. No harm, no foul. Just a wounded ego.
Yes, the 96 has a decocker but it is not easy to use as it could be.
So, I do not decock a semi-auto gun if it does not have a decocker system.
I used to carry a SA semi-auto with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. No more unless I’m willing to carry “cocked and locked”.
I’m conservative when it comes to personal defense firearms. I’d prefer to err on protection of innocent bystanders vs personal protection. But then, I live in a relatively safe part of the country. On my hobby horse farm, possoms, coons, and skunks are the main enemy.
Do what you are comfortable with.
As I said before, I like my P30SK-V3 and I’m warming to my P30SK-V1 (LEM).
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JR24
Member
I learned the same lesson with a 1911. Do it safely 100 or 1000 times but you do it wrong once and, in my case, you get a hole in the floor (which was best case!).
cougar1717
Member
There are a few idiosyncrasies for shooting the P30/P2000 HKs. Here are a few, but I'm sure there's more.
1) Practice and muscle memory are required for your thumb to be underneath (and not on) the huge slide stop lever. Everyone is used to tiny levers from striker fired handguns that the shooter has to intentionally activate. It is very easy for the shooter to unintentionally activate the HK lever, without practice. Knowing this will save you from the follow up question, "Why does my HK not lock back on the last round?"
2) Sight picture. Sights are setup for "driving the dot," and not the "6:00 hold." This will save you from the follow up question, "Why does my HK consistently shoot low?"
3) The LEM is similar to a long, light DAO. Unlike traditional DAO's, the LEM trigger does have a "wall." Depending on the individual firearm, this may have to develop as the parts mate through use/dryfire. Part of learning the LEM is getting through the trigger take up and to the wall (staging the trigger). People do the same thing with striker fired handguns, but the take up is much shorter.
4) Keep eyes on the sights and don't look at that hammer! The shooter's eyes are going to be attracted to the moving hammer right in front of their face as the trigger is being pulled. Keep that front sight in focus.
5) Similar to #3, knowing the trigger reset location is important for the LEM follow up. The shooter shouldn't let their finger off the trigger, but keep their finger in contact with the trigger as it is released to the reset location. Then, the trigger can be staged to the wall location.
6) Magazine release. The lever release is an ambi paddle. The shooter may be faster or more comfortable using a finger instead of the thumb to release the magazine. Most people will still use their thumb, but the shooter has options for both strong hand and weak hand reloads.
7) Take the time to configure the backstrap and side panels. The user configurable grip is one of the best HK specific features. Any combination of R/L/Backstrap inserts work. A good grip fit (with muscle memory) will allow a person to (safely) point the firearm at a target with eyes closed and attain near sight alignment.
8) Have a reasonable expectation for holsters and aftermarket parts. There are many things that a person would like, but can't get for a P30.
9) It's ok if the LEM is not your thing. It takes practice because it has its' quirks and is markedly different from the ubiquitous striker fired action.
1) Practice and muscle memory are required for your thumb to be underneath (and not on) the huge slide stop lever. Everyone is used to tiny levers from striker fired handguns that the shooter has to intentionally activate. It is very easy for the shooter to unintentionally activate the HK lever, without practice. Knowing this will save you from the follow up question, "Why does my HK not lock back on the last round?"
2) Sight picture. Sights are setup for "driving the dot," and not the "6:00 hold." This will save you from the follow up question, "Why does my HK consistently shoot low?"
3) The LEM is similar to a long, light DAO. Unlike traditional DAO's, the LEM trigger does have a "wall." Depending on the individual firearm, this may have to develop as the parts mate through use/dryfire. Part of learning the LEM is getting through the trigger take up and to the wall (staging the trigger). People do the same thing with striker fired handguns, but the take up is much shorter.
4) Keep eyes on the sights and don't look at that hammer! The shooter's eyes are going to be attracted to the moving hammer right in front of their face as the trigger is being pulled. Keep that front sight in focus.
5) Similar to #3, knowing the trigger reset location is important for the LEM follow up. The shooter shouldn't let their finger off the trigger, but keep their finger in contact with the trigger as it is released to the reset location. Then, the trigger can be staged to the wall location.
6) Magazine release. The lever release is an ambi paddle. The shooter may be faster or more comfortable using a finger instead of the thumb to release the magazine. Most people will still use their thumb, but the shooter has options for both strong hand and weak hand reloads.
7) Take the time to configure the backstrap and side panels. The user configurable grip is one of the best HK specific features. Any combination of R/L/Backstrap inserts work. A good grip fit (with muscle memory) will allow a person to (safely) point the firearm at a target with eyes closed and attain near sight alignment.
8) Have a reasonable expectation for holsters and aftermarket parts. There are many things that a person would like, but can't get for a P30.
9) It's ok if the LEM is not your thing. It takes practice because it has its' quirks and is markedly different from the ubiquitous striker fired action.
MarshallDodge
Member
All good points.
I've been shooting/carrying a LEM for almost 10 years, over 25K rounds, and will share my experience-
1) I keep my thumb on the outside/top of my support hand. The gun locks back every time.
2) I agree on the sight picture
3) The LEM trigger is best shot at speed, driving the trigger right through the wall, like you would a DA trigger. It isn't the best slow fire target trigger, but I have learned to line up the sights and drive the trigger through the wall without upsetting the picture.
4) Agreed
5)I don't really worry about the trigger reset anymore and don't remember it ever really being a thing, but it is something that has to be learned on any pistol.
6)Thumb works for me but others may find the ambi mag release to be a nice feature for the trigger finger method.
7)Mine is stock but the panels do have their benefits.
8)All that I have changed is the front sight, a fiber optic style, on the P30. My P30sk has the factory tritium sights with the rears blacked out.
9)I find the LEM to be easier to shoot than say a striker fired Glock. The LEM is pre cooked with a much shorter wall than a Glock. If you learn to use that little extra trigger take-up to hit the wall with a little speed, you'll learn to appreciate the LEM.
As far as longevity, plastic buffers, etc., HK rates the recoil mechanism in the P30 for 25K rounds. Mine is still the original and I have had no issues. The only thing I have broken is a trigger return spring and that was around 20K rounds. It took less than 5 minutes to replace it.
The ambi slide release is probably a little loose at this point but I don't even notice it.
I have both a usp 40c and p2000 with lem triggers (I converted the usp after the fact). But I haven't been able to figure out the triggers yet, even though both are very smooth through the pull. Before I did a trigger job on my p07 I shot it way better from decock even with a noticeably gritty trigger. Any suggestions on trying to figure them out? I wish the trigger broke much earlier than it does.
MarshallDodge
Member
Clear the gun.
Point at a wall while lining up the sights, paying special attention to the front sight.
Squeeze the trigger as fast as you can without upsetting the front sight. Speed is key. When you can do it it quickly and keep the sight picture, you have mastered the LEM.
I had a P30SK for awhile. I couldn't hit anything with it, and it didn't seem like I could get good with it unless I committed to it. I believed I'd have trouble maintaining my skills with my other pieces, and that didn't seem worth it for a pistol that felt a little bulky for a concealed carry, anyway. I sold it for a full-size P30S - still bulky, but with the manual safety it makes great bedside pistol.
