How many gun dealers have gone to electronic 4473?

[Kimber45acp]

I was at the Brady Campaign's gun store (wal mart) yesterday and was shocked to notice that a guy was filling out the 4473 on a computer The clerk said they just started this a week ago. I'm curious, percentage wise, how many of your local gun dealers have gone electronic with their 4473s? So far this is the first one I've seen.

 

[spartywrx]

The guy who does my FFL transfers does them online. I fill out the form, he types in the info into his computer. Approval in seconds.

Now as for what are they illegally doing with these records on the FBI's end, who knows. Probably backing all of them up onto a harddrive that will go "missing" one day.

 

[Acera]

Twice now, with the same same FFL.

 

[dogtown tom]

spartywrx: ...Now as for what are they illegally doing with these records on the FBI's end, who knows. Probably backing all of them up onto a harddrive that will go "missing" one day.

The FBI doesn't get your 4473's and never has. All the FBI gets from a FFL on a NICS call or NICS E-check is the buyers biographical information and whether the firearm is long gun, handgun or other. They do not get serial numbers, caliber or manufacturer of the firearm you just acquired.

The FBI NICS check is solely to determine the buyers eligibility to purchase a firearm. As to whether it's illegal- no, it's not. The Brady Law is the legislation that makes it legal. If you are referring to the FBI keeping the information submitted during a NICS check, it would be a violation of Federal law for them to keep that information past the end of their business day. Supposedly they purge information before the start of the next NICS day. Be aware that some state police or state agencies that act as a NICS "point of contact" may keep your information- but they aren't the FBI.

The ATF "E Form 4473" is not connected to ATF computers. It's simply a form filling software program. No information is sent to ATF, but like all 4473's it must be kept by the FFL for twenty years.

 

[huntsman]

The ATF "E Form 4473" is not connected to ATF computers. It's simply a form filling software program. No information is sent to ATF, but like all 4473's it must be kept by the FFL for twenty years.

So is the FFL responsible for a back-up and hard copy?

 

[waterhouse]

So is the FFL responsible for a back-up and hard copy?

You fill out the e4473, the dealer prints it out, you sign it, just like the regular 4473.

Just think of the E4473 as a template that you are filling in, like if I opened a Word .doc and it said "name:__________."

The only purpose of the computerized form is that it helps eliminate omissions and obviously since it is typed it is legible, which some people's handwriting is not. If you skip a question it prompts you to answer it. Also, it self populates some answers, like when you put in your zip code it fills in the city and state for you.

I'd rather have the gov't send me the form for free than use my printer ink and paper for the forms.

 

[Mike U.]

I was at the Brady Campaign's gun store (wal mart) yesterday and was shocked to notice that a guy was filling out the 4473 on a computer The clerk said they just started this a week ago.

Could you please enlighten me about the bold section of the above quote? I don't get it.

 

[mgkdrgn]

So is the FFL responsible for a back-up and hard copy?

Yep, totally. If the ATF / FBI / NSA / Black Helicopter crew wants to know where a specific gun went ... they need to go to the FFL and his paperwork.

I'm doing as many of mine using the computerized forms as I can ... MUCH easier to read than my handwriting ... as well as that of my clients.

 

[danbrew]

I'd rather have the gov't send me the form for free than use my printer ink and paper for the forms.

Yeah, because, you know, you're not paying for anything the government provides. If I were a FFL, I'd use it to ensure that there were no mistakes and the forms were easy to read.

Of course I'm Mr. PDF, so my views might be a little skewed.

 

[Zoogster]

There is a lot to dislike about Walmart, however they are one of the largest chains in the United States and they sell ammunition, and in many stores firearms. While many stores and especially large chains have been pressured to stop over the years from anti-gun lobby groups, Walmart continues to provide a product it hardly needs to sell. A product that probably totals a limited amount of total profits compared with other merchandise, but equates to a lot of harassment.

Places like Ebay, or K-mart, once great sources of good deals on firearms, firearm components, and ammunition, and many other similar places simply ceased to provide the product at all after such harassment. Yet Walmart continues.

They are one of the few places left where a regular family can walk in and buy other everyday merchandise and see firearms and ammunition sold like it is another regular item.
Not some demonized specialty item requiring you go into some special shop many families never enter.
People who would have never stopped in a gun shop can see them displayed, and even stop by and take a look at them, and see regular people purchasing them.
Something very helpful to the image of firearms and gun owners.

 

[longdayjake]

I don't think I get it either. Is wal mart trying to ban guns? Maybe if you don't enjoy explaining things to people, you shouldn't say anything that makes no sense without explanation. Seriously, you may be the only one that understands what you are trying to say. Don't be so harsh.

 

[waterhouse]

Yeah, because, you know, you're not paying for anything the government provides.

I get it. Since I pay taxes, I'm paying for the 4473 paper copies.

So, if I buy yellow paper, and replace my printer cartridge every few weeks and provide my own 4473s, I probably don't have to pay taxes, right?

 

[Zoogster]

So, if I buy yellow paper, and replace my printer cartridge every few weeks and provide my own 4473s, I probably don't have to pay taxes, right?

Sounds like a business expense to me, if you are an FFL. Meaning it can be deducted from the overall taxes paid if there is still room for such a deduction.

 

[CoRoMo]

Does the FFL holder have any choice whether or not to use the old forms vs. the new electronic version?

p.s.

kimber45acp
the Brady Campaign's gun store (wal mart)

I did bother to think before making this post, but I'm not asking you to do my thinking for me. I'm just asking that you explain your statement. Neither of your posts define your remark, so nothing is obvious here, other than your contempt towards that retailer. How do you equate the Bradys and Wal-Mart?

 

[danbrew]

So, if I buy yellow paper, and replace my printer cartridge every few weeks and provide my own 4473s, I probably don't have to pay taxes, right?

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Let us know how well it works out for 'ya, ok?

"Printer cartridge"? I guess you've not thought through the whole economy of scale thing yet, huh?

 

[rbernie]

Given the tone of the posts that I had to delete, and the overall direction that this is going - I'm shutting it down.

May be later we can talk about this like civil adults. That would be nice.