The "locks" are just for looks actually. (just like the TSA) You would be amazed how many junior high school kids can "pick" almost any padlock. Just like the locks on your house. And your car. I believe that the law states that you must use a padlock that ONLY you have the key to and you must keep that key in your possession all of the time. No TSA locks. I'm sure almost no one pays any attention to that.
How Many Guns can I Fly With?
- Thread starter GraceOutcast
- Start date
- Status
Mike OTDP
Member
Actually, those of us who travel routinely DO pay attention. TSA "locks" should not be used on a firearm case.
My own international travel case was made by ICC. Heavy aluminium. And each side is secured with two padlocks.
My own international travel case was made by ICC. Heavy aluminium. And each side is secured with two padlocks.
bassdogs
Member
Flew to Alaska recently and packed 2 handguns and ammo in one locked plastic case. Had 3 heavy locks on the case so someone would have had to rip it to pieces to get the stuff out. I was not ask to open the case going up or coming home. I did use a TSA lock on the suitcase that contained the gun case. I understand that they can open a TSA lock, but at least it kept some of the riffraff from picking thru the luggage and it prevented the case from opening accidently.
Only you have the key to the locks on the gun case itself. When checking in [you can't use curb side] you have to declare you have a firearm in your bag. Kind of gives you a lump in your throat to announce you have a gun in an airport, but no one even raised an eye. Just gave me the declaration form to sign. Its really a non event. When the TSA hand scanned the suitcase on my return trip, he totally ignored the gun case that I had already declared. He confiscated a bic lighter I had used for campfires but totally missed the can of highly flammable WD40 next to it.
Have fun in Alaska.
Only you have the key to the locks on the gun case itself. When checking in [you can't use curb side] you have to declare you have a firearm in your bag. Kind of gives you a lump in your throat to announce you have a gun in an airport, but no one even raised an eye. Just gave me the declaration form to sign. Its really a non event. When the TSA hand scanned the suitcase on my return trip, he totally ignored the gun case that I had already declared. He confiscated a bic lighter I had used for campfires but totally missed the can of highly flammable WD40 next to it.
Have fun in Alaska.
Buck13
Member
I'm not sure changing airlines will have any effect. At SeaTac, I'm pretty sure all bags are handled by Menzies. I was looking out the window while waiting for a flight, and watched the Menzies guy heaving bags into the air, dressing up the alignment as they floated in front of him and slamming them down onto the conveyor belt heading into the plane. I complained about this to an Alaska Air gate agent, who told me it's not her problem because that's a separate company. Yeah, duh, and you're their customer. ("You" being Alaska.) You could ask them not to abuse the bags in full view of the concourse! But Menzies is pretty much a monopoly, so expect them not to care!
Rail Driver
Member
That may be the case at a larger airport, or one that has more traffic. The baggage handlers at most of the airports I've flown out of recently were wearing jumpsuits with airline specific logos (ie, Delta, American Air, United, etc). I also live fairly close to a smaller airport that doesn't see nearly as much traffic, and you're right - all those guys are from the same contract company. I think it's a case by case kind of thing. Regardless, canceling my ticket and flying a different airline made me feel a bit better considering Delta was unwilling to even apologize for the inconvenience, much less the damage done to my property. The case hadn't just been tossed around - it was obviously damaged in an attempt to get at the contents. Customer service, especially in the larger industries, air travel being one of them, SHOULD be a top priority. Unfortunately anyone that flies anymore is treated like a terrorist by TSA, and like an inconvenience by airline employees other than flight attendants (and even a good number of flight attendants tend to treat passengers as an inconvenience at times). Some airlines are better with this than others. Bottom line? American Airlines treated me like a valued customer. Delta didn't.
Last edited:
NavyLCDR
member
The fact that TSA locks on the gun case violates Federal Regulations seems like a pretty big difference to me.
I can assure you that if the TSA wants to open a bag for any reason they couldn't care less what kind of lock is on it. They will cut it off. Technically, yes, you're not supposed to lock the gun case with a TSA lock but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Personally I never uderstood the logic of placing a padlock on a small pistol case that can be stuck under a jacket and walked out with. Or even a suitcase. It's just for looks and to make some folks "feel" better. It does nothing to prevent theft or loss. But you got to play by the rules no matter how nonsensible they are. The hard part is that there are so many different rules and the people in charge rarely seem to know what the rules are (or they just make them up as they go like the TSA is famous for doing). I am told they actually have a rulebook but no one has ever seen it. It's Top Secret National Defense material, you know?
hard-sided suitcases stink... they are brittle and quick to break a corner or wheel or to come unlatched. A decent zipper bag is your best bet, or a c-bag even. The Pelican cases are a good investment--they get treated with a little more respect. I was a baggage handler for years..yes, your bag is going to land hard on the conveyor, etc. ...when I started out I clutched each bag and gently stacked it.. you can't survive that way, you have to basically sling the bags to keep up and not kill yourself--not abuse, but your stuff should be packed to take a 12 ft drop. The bag might not survive, but the contents should. Also, pack the entire contents in a thick drum liner or other trash bag...lazy baggage handlers will run inside and leave your bag in the rain.
If I recall correctly, the limit is on ammunition by weight.
If I recall correctly, the limit is on ammunition by weight.
NavyLCDR
member
That "technicality" could me the difference between who would be responsible for a lost or stolen firearm. Someone cuts the lock and the gun disappears - the responsibility falls upon the person who cut the lock, if the traveler fulfilled all of their responsibilities according to Federal regulations.
If the traveler uses a TSA lock on the firearm case, the ultimate responsibility for the lost or stolen firearm will fall upon the traveler because they did not fulfill their responsibility required in Federal regulations to prevent others from having the key/combo to the lock.
Shadow 7D
Member
Drail,I take it you have NEVER had to deal with insurance,
you pack it illegally, you are likely to just get a shrug and a 'that's too bad'
you pack it illegally, you are likely to just get a shrug and a 'that's too bad'
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
I sat next to an AP photographer on a flight once. He always flew with a starter pistol in his camera case so that his cameras would get the special attention. No airlines have lost my firearms (yet), but FedEx has. It was amazing how fast they stopped giving me the run around once I told them the mis-delivered package contained a firearm and I would have to submit a lost firearms report to the BATFE if they didn't find it in 24 hours.
Although it is not gun, related, this music video about lost luggage is great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&feature=relmfu
Although it is not gun, related, this music video about lost luggage is great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&feature=relmfu
NavyLCDR
member
Victim of an urban myth. Once the luggage containing the firearm leaves TSA screening it is treated just like every other piece of luggage by the airlines. In fact, it violates Federal law for the carrier to mark the luggage in any way to indicate that it contains a firearm. The only special handling is that it is not legal for TSA to cut a lock to inspect a firearms case. They are supposed to either request the owner of the case to open it, or turn it over to a real law enforcement agency if they can't find the owner. A properly signed declaration tag is all the TSA needs to see.
If the gun case is going by itself, the declaration tag goes in side the case and TSA can see it on XRAY. If they want to verify that it is signed, they call for the owner to open the case for them.
bassdogs
Member
So what is your point? Federal law requires that you lock the case and that you are the only one with the key or combination. TSA locks are for luggage not gun cases. For sure an agent can cut off any lock, but they would have to have a reason [or make one up]. I used a TSA lock on my luggage mainly to keep it from popping open during transit. The multi padlocks on the gun case itself will prevent someone from opening the gun case without considerable effort, some privacy, and the belief that what is inside is worth all the effort. I would never fly with a very valuable weapon or one that means so much to me that I would not want to lose it.
Think this member had a legitimate question that deserved a helpful answer. He got some but had to pick thru others that we're so much.
Think this member had a legitimate question that deserved a helpful answer. He got some but had to pick thru others that we're so much.
bassdogs
Member
NavyLcd has it pretty much right. When you sign the declaration form, it is placed inside the check luggage on top of the gun case. There is no tag placed on the outside of the checked bag announcing that it contains a firearm. I was ask to wait at the ticket counter for a about 10 minutes in case the TSA wanted to search the case. They didn't and I went on my way thru security and on to the gate. Tsa did inspect my luggage on my return leg, but only ask me to open the luggage case not the gun case. My form was laying right on the gun case where they could see it when they opened my suitcase. Never even paid any attention to the gun case other than to verify that the locks were properly engaged. My only other recommendation is to open your suitcase as soon as you pick it off the baggage loop and verify the gun case is inside and locked. A quick grab will confirm that the weight is correct and all the locks are there. I would not recommend opening the gun case while you are in the airport. Don't know that airport security would say much, but another passenger seeing the firearm would probably freak out and cause a scene. Assuming you want to get on with your trip, I would do your inspection over in a corner or away from the crowd.
Flying with a firearm is remarkably simple. Just learn the rules and follow them. Security will be more concerned by a can of coke or bottle of shampoo than the gun in your suitcase.
Flying with a firearm is remarkably simple. Just learn the rules and follow them. Security will be more concerned by a can of coke or bottle of shampoo than the gun in your suitcase.
Mr.510
Member
When I flew to Colorado to drive a vintage car back to Seattle I wanted to take my .45 along and was worried about theft in transit. I went to a thrift store and bought a huge plastic Samsonite suitcase, just under the 'standard bag' size limit for $6. When I got it home I put my pistol hard case in the bottom of the suitcase in a location that made it easy to lock and open. Then I drilled four holes through the suitcase and pistol case and bolted them together with four 1/4" carriage bolts with fender washers and nylock nuts inside the pistol case. A pair of matching padlocks for the pistol case and I was set.
I loaded up that suitcase with my tool bag and tools until it was two pounds under the limit in case my bathroom scale was off. Now it was a ~$5k, 48 pound suitcase! When I went to check my bag at SeaTac they had me take it over to a guy in a deal like an office cubicle. He asked if the gun was unloaded and then went through my tool bag and other stuff. He didn't want to open the pistol case or even know what else was in it besides the weapon. He said he'd heard about handgun thefts from baggage being rampant around Chicago but had never heard much about it in the NW. He thought my case bolted into the hardside suitcase was a great idea nonetheless.
I loaded up that suitcase with my tool bag and tools until it was two pounds under the limit in case my bathroom scale was off. Now it was a ~$5k, 48 pound suitcase! When I went to check my bag at SeaTac they had me take it over to a guy in a deal like an office cubicle. He asked if the gun was unloaded and then went through my tool bag and other stuff. He didn't want to open the pistol case or even know what else was in it besides the weapon. He said he'd heard about handgun thefts from baggage being rampant around Chicago but had never heard much about it in the NW. He thought my case bolted into the hardside suitcase was a great idea nonetheless.
NavyLCDR
member
Here is my feeling about gun theft and airline travel. If I was a thief, I know how I would do business. I would look for the luggage that appeared on the outside to have something valuable inside. Then I would pick up that piece of luggage and walk out of the airport with it like I was a traveler and it was my luggage.
Then, in confines of somewhere private, I would open the luggage and hope for something good inside, where I would also have all the time in the world to break into a gun case inside.
So, my point is - when I have a piece of luggage with a gun case inside, my goal is to make that piece of luggage look like every other piece of luggage out there with nothing valuable inside at all. It's an ordinary suitcase that looks like any other suitcase, with no extra bolts installed in it, no extra weight added to it, and a simple little TSA lock more to keep it from coming open in handling than anything else.
Then, in confines of somewhere private, I would open the luggage and hope for something good inside, where I would also have all the time in the world to break into a gun case inside.
So, my point is - when I have a piece of luggage with a gun case inside, my goal is to make that piece of luggage look like every other piece of luggage out there with nothing valuable inside at all. It's an ordinary suitcase that looks like any other suitcase, with no extra bolts installed in it, no extra weight added to it, and a simple little TSA lock more to keep it from coming open in handling than anything else.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I still say you should FedEX your guns to your destination. It's much easier and safer.
NavyLCDR
member
Can you explain, please, how it would be much easier?
FEDEX: The shipper must declare, IN WRITING, to FEDEX the shipment contains a firearm. The shipper must make a trip to FEDEX to deliver the package for shipment. The shipper must fill out the standard paperwork for any FEDEX overnight shipping. At the receiving end, a person must be present at the specific time of delivery, which is determined by FEDEX, to sign for receipt of the package. Ammo must be sent separately by ground.
AIRLINE: Go to the counter, tell the person you have an unloaded gun to declare. Sign the tag, put it in your luggage next to the gun case. Ammo can be in the case with the gun (most airlines) or in the luggage with the gun case. You might wait 10 minutes for TSA to x-ray your bag. Pick up your luggage on the carousel at the destination and you have your gun AND your ammo with no extra trips on either end and no waiting looking out the window for the stealth FEDEX truck.
So, why is FEDEX easier? And can you care to elaborate what safeguards FEDEX has in place above and beyond those safeguards of an airline for handling luggage?
You are certainly free to state that FEDEX is easier and safer, but I, personally, would like to know why?
Which one is easier? FEDEX or AIRLINE?
This is one of the many reasons I have started driving to where ever I'm going. I personally do not care how far or how long it takes to drive too and fro. My family has protested in the past but have come to agree that though it may take a little longer. There are far less hassles and we all have generated far more happy memories driving together. And we have been able to see the sights along the way.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Why do you sound so hostile? You do things the way you want and I'll do them the way I want. Also, the OP was asking about many guns and how many were allowed, not 1 gun like you talk about. One gun may be easy but 5 or more are not. Lighten up Sir, there is no wrong here except for the government!
Shadow 7D
Member
wow, archangel
you must have missed the various 'fed ex sucks'/'UPS sucks' threads
just as many or more guns go missing from those people as MAY disappear from the airport, and the hassle...
you must have missed the various 'fed ex sucks'/'UPS sucks' threads
just as many or more guns go missing from those people as MAY disappear from the airport, and the hassle...
NavyLCDR
member
I politely asked for facts that would indicate that FEDEX is actually easier or safer. I notice you offered no facts, simply an accusation that my polite request for facts was hostile. You say 1 gun may be easy but 5 or more are not. Again, I would politely ask for facts to back that up. Most airlines would allow 5 handguns to go in a single locked case. I just don't see any extra effort in declaring one unloaded gun in a locked case to the counter person as declaring 5 unloaded guns to the counter person. You state your opinion as if it was a fact applicable to everyone.
Last edited:
bassdogs
Member
Think its time to close this one. ? ask, ? answered!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
