How many legal class III weapons are in circulation?

[bernie]

I was driving down the road today wondering if there was anyway of knowing how many legal class III weapons were owned. If anyone knows, shed some light please! Thanks.

 

[Sven]

Not even the BATF knows.



Seriously, I met a Class III dealer and he says that the ATF folks call him every once and a while asking for an inventory, because they LOST paperwork.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I remember seeing a breakdown of NFA firearms into the number of each category owned in a state-by-state basis. Don't remember where I saw it though. Someone used to publish it at then end of each year. It may have been in the Machinegun News magazine.

The only number I can remember offhand is 240,000 machineguns and I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

I have the info, but is on my other computer. Will post sometime later.

Kenneth Lew

 

[Byron Quick]

These are numbers that I saw somewhere back in 1986 or 1987.

Approximately 125,000 machineguns were registered between 1934 and 1986. Between passage of Volkmer-McClure otherwise known as the Firearm Owner's Protection Act (And trumpeted by the NRA and Republican apologists as a wonderful, masterful triumph ") in May, 1986 and it's going into effect, approximately 150,000 machineguns were registered as transferable NFA weapons. So the net effect of this ban was to more than double the number of legal machineguns in less than six months.

So there's around a quarter million or so. No one knows for sure, not even F Troop.

 

[El Tejon]

Zero as there are no such thing.

 

[ACP230]

Small Arms Review, www.smallarmsreview.com, published an article about this a few years ago. You could find which issue it was in in the index at the SAR website.

 

[Art Eatman]

I remember some numbers from back in that 1987 period; they're close enough to Byron's as make no nevermind...

Art

 

[AK103K]

Not even the BATF knows.

This isnt all that far off. Rumor has it that the registry is in bad shape. Better keep your paperwork safe.
I still dont understand why they dont reopen the amnesty.(they may have to due to the condition the registry is in) You would think they could use the revenue and would want to know where everything is. With a lot of WWII vets dying and "things" turning up, its ashame to see nice examples of great guns considered "contraband" and destined for destruction. The other thing I dont understand is, if its leagal to own the weapons if you pay the tax, why wont they let you pay the tax? If they had to tax us, because banning them was unconstitutional, then isnt refusing to accept payment the same thing?

 

[CleverNickname]

The other thing I dont understand is, if its leagal to own the weapons if you pay the tax, why wont they let you pay the tax? If they had to tax us, because banning them was unconstitutional, then isnt refusing to accept payment the same thing?

If you convince the Supreme Court of this, you will have the undying admiration of thousands (millions?) of gunowners across America. The '86 ban does basically boil down to the BATF refusing to apply a tax, except on certain grandfathered firearms.

 

[Mannlicher]

There was a remark on the History Channel the other night, during the show on MachineGuns. They said half of all the machine guns in America were in private hands, the other half with the military and police.

 

[ACP230]

It is not a rumor. The NFA Registry is in lousy shape. An example: There is evidence that some BATF staff "threw away registry forms," to lighten their workload.

Congress heard other testimony of screw ups and allocated $500,000 to get the problems cleared up.

The betting is that the cash will be squandered and nothing will really be accomplished.

Your original registry forms should be in a safety deposit box. They may be all you have to prove that your burp gun is in the registry.

 

[Kharn]

ACP230:
Not just thrown away, several agents were caught using the shredder to dispose of paperwork...

Kharn

 

[AK103K]

So why hasnt this all been addressed? Where is the NRA? I thought they were so "concerned" with our gun rights? Why havent these abuses and unlawful "rules" been challenged in court? If the registry is incorrect by as much as one entry, then its BS. They have nothing to stand on. For all the hoops we have to jump through for all the tax issues, this one included, why are they not held to a higher standard? Why do we allow them to do as they do? The "tax" may be legal, but the machinegun ban is flat out "illeagal", and as far as I see it, so is the background check on any firearm, let alone the NFA items. More and more things these days are becoming "Catch-22". No matter what you do, try as you might to be a law abiding citizen, you cant be. The laws are written to prosecute, not protect.
RANT OFF :banghead:

 

[El Tejon]

NRA concerned with gun rights? LOL, maybe duck rights.

 

[AK103K]

By the time the NRA gets done with us, ducks wont be the only thing walking that way.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Actually the NRA did sponsor an anti-1986 lawsuit back in the 90's.
Does anyone recall what happened to it?

 

[Art Eatman]

The lawsuit, if not thrown out for lack of standing, probably wound up with a federal judge's decision that the ban came under the interstate commerce clause, and was therefore okay.

Art

 

[Pinned&Recessed]

The Duck comment is right on. The NRA is concerned about duck hunters and bolt guns. I've heard most higher-ups in the NRA wish the "Evil Black Rifle" people would just go away and they damn near have a hatred for Machine Guns and MG owners.

Until the NRA actively fights to get the laws to pre-'34 status, they're nothing more than a status-quo-maintaining joke more concerned with thier own survival and profits.

If the NRA works so hard, how come we have the:

NFA '34
FFC '38
GCA '68
FOPA '86
AWB '94

To name a few.

This has got to not just stop, but get back to where I can order a M240B from the Sears catalog right to my door for $600.

 

[Nero Steptoe]

"If the NRA works so hard, how come we have the..."

Pretty simple answer to that question. There are approximately 4M NRA members. There are approximately 300M Americans. In the Grand Scheme of Things, the guns issues that are important to us gunowners don't amount to a pimple on a gnat's ass. Were it not for the work of the NRA, we'd have already lost what few rights we do have left. Blame the dumbasses who live in States like KA and NY, who are stupid enough to send Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer and Klinton to the Senate...not the NRA!

 

[Art Eatman]

Congress passed the GCA '34 from fear of WW I Veterans.

The GCA '68 came from a Democrat-controlled Congress, reacting to the assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK. Had it not been for the NRA, the law would have been a whole lot worse. This deal was the beginning of my involvement in RKBA.

You can thank "Mr. Republican", Senator Robert Dole, for the maneuverings which gave us the add-on machine-gun ban in the FOPA. This was one of those deals where the NRA had been led to believe all was well, but after folks went home for the weekend the ban was added in conference committee.

Same man, same betrayal in the Brady Bill. The BB was supposed to have died in conference committee, but Dole's maneuverings resurrected it for passage.

Art

 

[CleverNickname]

Congress passed the GCA '34 from fear of WW I Veterans.

I was under the impression it was to give the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms something more to enforce after Prohibition went away.

 

[El Tejon]

Clever, no ATF until SSA of `68. IRS then.

Mixed motives for NFA but Mr. Eatman is correct for most of it.

NRA not politically involved until Cincy Reforms and the late, great Harlon Carter.

 

[ACP230]

Sen. Dole had a mixed record when it came to guns. It was his amendment that allowed surplus military firearms back into the US. He may also have had something to do with eliminating the signing requirement for ammo purchases for a few years.

I am still teed off at him over the other stuff, however.