How many rounds?

[igotta40]

This is with the bore scope inserted into the muzzle with a fired case chambered. The brass is almost to trim length, 1.917” then a photo with the bolt lifted.

 

[igotta40]

These last two are also the leade, one image with the scope inserted at the muzzle, and one from the breech.

 

[igotta40]

All four screws loose. I was swapping scopes between two rifles and realized that I checked my scope ring screws and failed to check my scope rail screws. So embarrassing. Fingers crossed, I probably found my inaccuracy problem. Classic Occam’s Razor. Hopefully someone will reply with something like ‘don’t worry it happens to the best of us’.

 

[gotboostvr]

All four screws loose. I was swapping scopes between two rifles and realized that I checked my scope ring screws and failed to check my scope rail screws. So embarrassing. Fingers crossed, I probably found my inaccuracy problem. Classic Occam’s Razor. Hopefully someone will reply with something like ‘don’t worry it happens to the best of us’.

Don't worry, happens to the best of us.

Well, maybe not the best, but it's happened to me.

 

[LoonWulf]

Least you scope didn't fly off......not that I had that happen

 

[horsemen61]

It’s happened to me more than once or twice so it’s not the end of the world

 

[bfoosh006]

We are all prone to those "oops" moments.

Thankfully that was an easy fix.

 

[Turkeytider]

Yay!! Always feels good, at least to me, to verify that there`s not some inherent equipment problem ( broken or just plain bad ) and it`s something simple or that it`s the guy pulling the trigger.

 

[Pat Riot]

I am definitely not “the best of us” when it comes to scopes or mounts, but I am not an amateur to technical specs and the proper use of tools.
BUT, I mounted a Leupold 3-9x33 Compact scope on my Ruger SFAR. I bought Warne QD rings. I bought the wrong height for the rings. Rather than sending the rings back because I did mount them and utilize them, I decided to learn from that mistake and move forward.
I bought a Monstrum “Lock Down” Picatinny rail from Amazon. There were no torque specs for the device online or in the “We’re the Greatest” paperwork provided by the manufacturer. Knowing the hardware was Chinese I decided to use the torque for the hardware on the Warne rings, which was 25 in/lbs. I made sure the rail was pushed completely forward and after snugging the hardware a bit I tapped the mount forward a bit with a small dead blow hammer. Then I torqued the hardware a little at a time going front to back a few times until I reached the 25 in/lb torque for each screw.
I went to the range and used Norma Tactical.308 150 grain cartridges to get the gun on paper and in the zone of the bullseye. Then I switched to my hand loads so I could figure out what recipe the gun liked.
When things went to heck was about 21 or 22 rounds in. 12 Norma rounds and 8-10 hand loads. All of a sudden this gun is patterning, not grouping. I figured it was my hand loads and tried a few more with a higher powder charge. That made things worse.
I know from experience not to adjust, tighten, modify or remove then use as a target, sensitive optical equipment when angry. So I put everything back in cases and headed home.
The next day I got my gun out to see what was wrong. The riser was loose.
Rather than mess with it at all I remove it and tossed it in a junk box and ordered the proper set of Warne QD rings that I knew I should have ordered in the first place.
The problem has been solved.

 

[Nature Boy]

Your barrel and chamber are filthy and you have a pretty significant carbon ring developing.

Fix those things and it will shoot better

 

[Nature Boy]

For reference

The dreaded Carbon Ring

I was cleaning a few rifles this weekend I was able to get some good examples of what a carbon ring looks like so I thought it would be worth a post on the subject. When it comes to the subject of carbon rings, some folks may not even know about. Perhaps they have heard about it but don’t know...

www.thehighroad.org

My 2 cents on bore cleaning (with more Teslong pics)

Maybe more like a whole roll of pennies as it relates to the amount of copper in this barrel. This is after only 15 rounds starting from a clean bore in my Browning BLR .358 win Step 1. All my rifles start by getting a shot of Wipe Out foaming Bore Cleaner, which I let soak for 2 hours...

www.thehighroad.org

 

[igotta40]

It seems more like normal since tightening my scope rail screws. I had a perfect group until my last shot. I got a little nervous and pulled it.

 

[igotta40]

Your barrel and chamber are filthy and you have a pretty significant carbon ring developing.

Fix those things and it will shoot better

Thanks for the heads up. The photos were post range session, but it needs a real scrubbing. Thanks for the cleaning info. Please could you mark my photos that show the carbon ring? Thanks!

 

[Sarge7402]

If you think you are not getting all of the carbon out of the barrel, you could use what we used on our 16's, 60's and ma dueces, and that was a shot of carburator cleaner. Not a lot just a shot. Let it sit for a couple of minutes and then use clean patches

 

[Pat Riot]

@Nature Boy Thanks for posting those two links. I decided to look for some of that Wipe Out bore cleaner. Amazon has a 5oz spray can for $20. I did a search and found a 20oz for $24 on eBay. Glad I reread the description. It’s a 20 ounce tumbler that looks like a can of Wipe Out.

Wipe Out Bore Cleaner 20oz Tumbler ( NEW IN BOX )- PRIORITY SHIPPING | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Wipe Out Bore Cleaner 20oz Tumbler ( NEW IN BOX )- PRIORITY SHIPPING at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Nature Boy]

Thanks for the heads up. The photos were post range session, but it needs a real scrubbing. Thanks for the cleaning info. Please could you mark my photos that show the carbon ring? Thanks!

Clean it the way you normally do and take a few more pictures, particularly the throat and first 6” or so of the barrel from the chamber end.

I just spent the morning cleaning one of mine. 45 rounds from the last cleaning and you can see the carbon ring forming.

Here’s the before and after cleaning.



It often takes a focused effort to get it gone as the normal cleaning strokes through the barrel can miss it. I use an oversized Ram Rodz cleaning swab (the link I posted earlier describes my method)



A build up of this carbon ring is detrimental to accuracy as it impinges on the neck and affects pressure. The casual shooter might not know or care but if you’re someone who sweats making tiny groups of holes in paper it’s important to remove this buildup every time you clean your rifle. If it goes unchecked it becomes hell to get rid of.

 

[MPistone]

I run the same Savage in 6.5CM as well as a RPR in 6.5CM. The only time I run factory ammunition is to fireform the brass, as I'm a reloader. I've also loaded Staball 6.5, although my Savage prefers Varget.



I'm well over a 1,000 rounds down my Savage barrel it still shoots sub-MOA at 200 yards.


I agree with most others, that your problem is not due to a burned out barrel. I've gone through my fair share of 220 swift and 22-250 barrels and the loss of accuracy is gradual - you shouldn't go from a ragged hole to a couple of inches overnight. The same holds true for a less than spotless barrel. Carbon build up or not, your accuracy will not jump to two or three inches.

Like all troubleshooting steps - I would ask if you had changed anything? the Optics, mounts? have you removed the action from the stock for any reason? Things generally don't go from good to bad unless we changed something or a part has simply broken. Any change with the bolt? Is it still as smooth as before (you and I know that the Savage is not the smoothest bolt in town) but does it fell the same as before. Our model of Savage is known to have an issue with the extractor and that why the bolt seems to snag sometimes.

If you have another nice scope to try - I'd do it. I wouldn't bother trying to get a great zero; just on paper to see your group size. Out of curiosity, what optic are you running now?

Please let us know what you find.

EDIT - Now that I think back, I remember that my scope base did not have Loctite on the mounting screws when I received it from the factory. Fortunately I caught it when I received the rifle - you might want to check that it is still secure.

 

[thump_rrr]

I've never shot out a barrel. But I've read that a 308 should be good for at least 5000 rounds and still retain enough accuracy to be competitive. And be accurate enough for most casual shooters/hunters for 10,000 rounds.

The 243's life expectancy is usually quoted as about 1/2 that.

I've not seen any numbers on 6.5CM, but logic says it should be somewhere in between. I don't think that is the problem.

Savage barrels are known to be somewhat rough and need to be cleaned more often than most others. They are also harder to get clean. And it always takes a few rounds for best accuracy to return after you clean a barrel. My GUESS is that this is where you need to be looking.

My Savage 10BA in 308 went from 0.4-0.6 moa to about 1-1/4 moa between 4,000 and 4,800 rounds.
If I would have found a barrel when it was at 4,000 rounds I would have swapped it.

 

[.45Coltguy]

I run the same Savage in 6.5CM as well as a RPR in 6.5CM. The only time I run factory ammunition is to fireform the brass, as I'm a reloader. I've also loaded Staball 6.5, although my Savage prefers Varget.

View attachment 1205445

I'm well over a 1,000 rounds down my Savage barrel it still shoots sub-MOA at 200 yards.
View attachment 1205446

I agree with most others, that your problem is not due to a burned out barrel. I've gone through my fair share of 220 swift and 22-250 barrels and the loss of accuracy is gradual - you shouldn't go from a ragged hole to a couple of inches overnight. The same holds true for a less than spotless barrel. Carbon build up or not, your accuracy will not jump to two or three inches.

Like all troubleshooting steps - I would ask if you had changed anything? the Optics, mounts? have you removed the action from the stock for any reason? Things generally don't go from good to bad unless we changed something or a part has simply broken. Any change with the bolt? Is it still as smooth as before (you and I know that the Savage is not the smoothest bolt in town) but does it fell the same as before. Our model of Savage is known to have an issue with the extractor and that why the bolt seems to snag sometimes.

If you have another nice scope to try - I'd do it. I wouldn't bother trying to get a great zero; just on paper to see your group size. Out of curiosity, what optic are you running now?

Please let us know what you find.

Certainly like your shooting area. Nice.

 

[igotta40]

Clean it the way you normally do and take a few more pictures, particularly the throat and first 6” or so of the barrel from the chamber end.

I just spent the morning cleaning one of mine. 45 rounds from the last cleaning and you can see the carbon ring forming.

Here’s the before and after cleaning.

View attachment 1205425

It often takes a focused effort to get it gone as the normal cleaning strokes through the barrel can miss it. I use an oversized Ram Rodz cleaning swab (the link I posted earlier describes my method)

View attachment 1205426

A build up of this carbon ring is detrimental to accuracy as it impinges on the neck and affects pressure. The casual shooter might not know or care but if you’re someone who sweats making tiny groups of holes in paper it’s important to remove this buildup every time you clean your rifle. If it goes unchecked it becomes hell to get rid of.

sure appreciate the help, thanks!

 

[Turkeytider]

Clean it the way you normally do and take a few more pictures, particularly the throat and first 6” or so of the barrel from the chamber end.

I just spent the morning cleaning one of mine. 45 rounds from the last cleaning and you can see the carbon ring forming.

Here’s the before and after cleaning.

View attachment 1205425

It often takes a focused effort to get it gone as the normal cleaning strokes through the barrel can miss it. I use an oversized Ram Rodz cleaning swab (the link I posted earlier describes my method)

View attachment 1205426

A build up of this carbon ring is detrimental to accuracy as it impinges on the neck and affects pressure. The casual shooter might not know or care but if you’re someone who sweats making tiny groups of holes in paper it’s important to remove this buildup every time you clean your rifle. If it goes unchecked it becomes hell to get rid of.

I`m not after tiny groups at 500 yards from my Savage Model 12 LRPV in .223, but I do want to minimize carbon buildup. Some folks on here whose advice I respect very much talk about the non-necessity of cleaning after each range session but I`ve decided to go ahead and soak the throat and first few inches of barrel with C-4 and patch it out after some soak time after each shooting session. I`ll accept and know to expect the 3-4 rounds it seems to take to " settle in " at each session.