How many times can you safely reload bottle-neck brass?

[KeithNyst]

I've just started reloading bottle-neck cartridges. I have reloaded quite a few straight-wall 45ACPs.

How many times can you should one reload a bottle-neck case before recycling it? My assumption is that one should stop using it at some point, even if it does not show signs of stress or crack. What should one look for signs to stop?

Here are specifics on what I'm reloading: I am reloading 7-30 Waters for my Contender 14" barrel. I have stayed 1.5 grains below max loads. I don't have a "neck sizing only die" (have not seen one online for 7-30 Waters), so I've set the sizing die to try to minimally resize (trying to just work the neck; understanding the case wall still gets re-sized). I acquired brass by buying 3 boxes of new Federal Vital Shock ammo. I have reloaded and fired this brass twice, for a total of 3 firings. I examine each case carefully before reloading, looking for stress lines or cracks. I have only had to trim back a few of the cases so far and have had no issue closing the breech.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jwrowland77]

It all really depends on how hot, reloading practices, brass being used, etc.

 

[rcmodel]

In a single shot, and sized properly for minimum headspace like you are doing, they should last almost indefinitely.

They will give out when the primer pockets eventually get loose, or the case neck cracks.


You can check inside the case with a L-bent paper clip for a stretch ring too.

See this about that:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9191329&postcount=1

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

How many times can you should one reload a bottle-neck case before recycling it? My assumption is that one should stop using it at some point, even if it does not show signs of stress or crack. What should one look for signs to stop?

You can reload rifle brass until the primer pockets become loose, until the neck splits or until the brass can no longer maintain proper neck tension. You can drastically increase the brass life by annealing every 5th or 6th loading.

There are other reasons like pending case head separation but those problems only show up when your rifle has problems.

 

[spitballer]

Not familiar with 7-30 Waters but my last batch of .223 brass took me to around a dozen reloads before DXing on account of a barrel change. I had to trim cases once after about 5 reloads and I annealed the case necks after about every 4 loads. Those seem to be the two big issues, trimming and annealing the case necks. Again, not familiar with 7-30 Waters but as for annealing the .223, I seem to get the original golden glow on the case necks with about 6 1/2 seconds of propane flame, turning the cases with a drill at about 60 rpm and cooling in water immediately afterward. Any more than that and discoloration moves past the shoulder. Annealing involves trial and error, and I err on the side of caution here - necks with a healthy golden glow will still be relatively hard. I've had poor luck annealing case necks that have inconsistent neck wall thicknesses and I suspect that the reason the suppliers get away with it is because they have processes that manage to get the brass soft enough so that the average reloader never notices a problem until he thinks it's time to buy more.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You should not anneal by guessing. There are some very good products out there to tell you exactly what temperature you are heating the brass to. Not hot enough you don't anneal, too hot and you ruin the brass beyond use. Not a trial and error event.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ting-accessories/tempilaq-reg--prod13124.aspx

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...aling/hornady-annealing-system-prod38550.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...es/heat-stop-heat-control-paste-prod1121.aspx

 

[jwrowland77]

For annealing, get one of these. Definitely don't want to just guess.

 

[gamestalker]

There is no reason to scrap brass simply because it has been loaded X number of times. If primer pockets go south, signs of incipient separation, or if it begins to develop neck splits, then it is ready for the recycle bin.

There are various methods to extend the life of bottle neck brass. The two most common way is to simply be careful not to over size with FL die's. Doing so creates excessive head space, excessive head space causes incipient case head separations, which will destroy good brass within 2 or 3 loads.

And the other method, which I currently employ, is to use a neck die. However, at some point in time the brass will become difficult to chamber, it will then need to be run through a FL die to bump the shoulders back a couple thousandths. This step is critical, in that, you only want to bump enough to allow for proper chamber fit, any more than that and excessive head space will take it toll.

I get 10+ loads from most of my bottle neck brass, some even more. Right now I'm working to gain additional life from my belted magnum brass by using an IT collet die. which should add a few more uses to my brass.

GS

 

[Arkansas Paul]

My assumption is that one should stop using it at some point, even if it does not show signs of stress or crack.

Well, if you want to stop using it before it is showing any signs of stress, I'm sure there are plenty of people here on THR that would gladly pay the shipping.

 

[Walkalong]

There are other reasons like pending case head separation but those problems only show up when your rifle has problems.

Or one pushes the shoulder back too far when sizing. This usually doesn't happen with properly made dies, shell holders and plates, but it is something to double check when setting up sizers.

 

[KeithNyst]

Great feedback. Thx.

Great feedback. Thank you all. Keith

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Assuming gauging the case including the rim for proper length so as not to set the shoulder back and annealing regularly the cases may well last a good long time.

Some say the 7-30 Waters shoulder design and dies result in more case stretching than some other case and die combinations - trim after 3 shots may be sooner than many other case designs (folks have been know to improvise neck sizing dies as by using a 7mm'08 die or similar).

Many folks figure any brass trimmed off came from the case and so leaves the shoulder area likely thinner. For this reason some folks will pitch cases that look good when the case has been trimmed an arbitrary number of times or the case has lost enough weight to matter - don't ask me how much that is.

 

[Walkalong]

There is no reason to scrap brass simply because it has been loaded X number of times. If primer pockets go south, signs of incipient separation, or if it begins to develop neck splits, then it is ready for the recycle bin.

I missed this earlier, but it says it all.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There is no reason to scrap brass simply because it has been loaded X number of times. If primer pockets go south, signs of incipient separation, or if it begins to develop neck splits, then it is ready for the recycle bin.

I missed this earlier, but it says it all.

LOL sounds like what I said in Post #4... Great minds think alike. It must be true!!!

You can reload rifle brass until the primer pockets become loose, until the neck splits or until the brass can no longer maintain proper neck tension. You can drastically increase the brass life by annealing every 5th or 6th loading.

There are other reasons like pending case head separation but those problems only show up when your rifle has problems.

 

[LAGS]

Tonight I loaded up 15 cases of the original Norma 7.62x54 box that I bought back in 1976.
The records that I had for the cases showed that I had reloaded them 18 times before I gave them to a friend when he bought a rifle from me years ago.
He sold the rifle after having it for 5 years and reloading the cases several more times.
He gave me the cases back, and I have reloaded them at least 5 more times.
The primer pockets feel like they are getting loose, so it is time to retire them.
The 5 missing cases were Lost and did not split or anything.
But those are a 7.62x54 shot in a Mosin Nagant that has good headspace, and were mostly Neck Sized only.
Plus the 7.62x54 is a lower pressure cartridge to start with.

 

[45lcshooter]

Like most have said, it all depends on the factors- how hot your load is, manufacture of brass, how hard you work the brass.

A lot of people will say that Full Length resizing works your brass a lot, which is very true, I FL my brass a lot for the reasoning of then it is always free of dents and dings, and i know everything is pushed out. you can neck size with a full length die, so purchasing a full length die will give you the ability to just size the neck or the whole piece of brass.

Manufactures of brass also have a hand in how many reloads you get. Before i got big into reloading i would always wait right before deer season when the stores would put ammo real cheap. I would go and 2-3 hundred dollar worth of ammo, because it was cheaper than reloading it. So i have a bunch of factory loaded 308 30-30 and 30-06. One 4th of July a couple years back, i was working on a farm and the employees decided that we would shoot targets after our work was done at the farm, and my bosses kids came up with their shot guns. I took 6 or 8 rifles with me. One of them was my 30-30, i started shooting the factory ammo that i got from before, then started picking it up off the ground and i was going to throw them in my pocket, NOOOOPEEEEE every 30-30 we shot that day(couple other guys had 30-30s with them) the casing shoulder cracked. Factory federal!!!!!!!! and we all thought it had a little more snot behind it, so maybe the factory goofed and hot loaded several Lots of boxes.

Keep your loads light to medium. They way i do it for my wheel cannon pistols is i have light-medium-hot loads. I will only load hot loads in a previous hot loaded casings, i will only load a light load in a light loaded casing. That way i can better judge how my cases are holding up, plus they are straight walled casings so they will take a lot more reloads than bottle necked rifle rounds. but the same aspect of light- medium- hot loads will apply, if you like that method.

Sometimes you will have "head case separation"" before anything else could happen, that is when the the case is weak just past the primer where the ignition ignites the powder, it weakens the brass there and will make a indent. Only way to find out if you are going to get head case separation is with paper clip, undo the paper clip, and run in down the inside wall of the case, if it goes in-like it wants to push to the outside of the case, then you are soon going to separate. And pulling a stuck case with no primer base to get a hold of, wont be pretty to get out. hasn't happened to me, but i've seen pics.

 

[cfullgraf]

Good information posted already.

To add, I have a Contender with a 7mm International Rimmed barrel, the round is very similar to the 7-30 Waters where the parent case is the 30-30.

I used to shoot IHMSA silhouhette with it and I remember the gun was pretty easy on the brass. I would toss cases when they failed and I do not remember every having to toss more than one or two at any one time.

I did neck size but if you set your dies to barely push the shoulders back, you will minimize the sizing.

Also, I never annealed my cases. I am not saying it would not be beneficial, I just did not do it. And it needs to be done correctly.